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Last Post 08/05/2007 5:53 PM by  Ray Hall
SHINGLE MATCHING
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Stormkat
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03/05/2007 1:22 PM

    Remember the days of Minnesota and Wisconsin when the lawsuits required us to match siding and shingles?  I am working a commercial wind claim on a shopping center in Texas.  Liberty Mutual is the carrier.  Their first inclination is to repair.  However, it meets the test square criteria for replacement.  In addition, the shingles are 20+ year old 30 year laminates.  The color difference would be drastic and they are open to replacement due to matching and deterioration. 

    Any suggestions or documentation would be appreciated.

    Stan

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    Jimbo
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    03/05/2007 5:44 PM


    it meets the test square criteria for replacement. In addition, the shingles are 20+ year old 30 year laminates.
    Stan, I think that says it all.
    Jimbo
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    Gale Hawkins
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    03/06/2007 12:26 AM

     If it is ACV coverage and you take a 66% depreciation the building owner may be OK with repairs depending on his bank account depending on where it is 5 squares or 500 squares perhaps?

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    butch sanders
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    04/17/2007 9:51 PM
    Gale:
    why not pay for the roof? what if they have an RCV policy?
    you work for the insured also, no need to make it a guessing game, or an adversarial relation with building owner and the roofing contractor.
    "Like kind & quality"
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    Gale Hawkins
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    04/18/2007 12:48 AM

    Butch, one would need the policy to answer your questions.

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    Ray Hall
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    04/18/2007 1:54 PM

    O my goodness three catastrophe adjuster who thinks replacement cost coverage means new for old to any building componant, such as a roof  membrane or a siding mismatch.

    What if this clause was changed to"  Depreciation Buy Back Clause"  { if any}. If you begin thinking like this you will be on safe ground." you  work for the insured also" don,t remember this from any of my training... but I do remember not to ever lie, cheat or misrepresent any facts, or policy language.

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    butch sanders
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    04/18/2007 11:43 PM
    Ray:
    it may not be in your training, but the bottom line is who ultimately pays you.
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    Gulfsun1
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    04/19/2007 12:28 PM
    I agree with Ray....I don't remember anywhere in my training that I was instructed that "you work for the insured also" I think that you may be confusing the instructions from the Public Adjuster course. The training I received said that as an IA, I am an extension of the insurance company working for the insurance company with the responsibility of discharging the duties of the insurance company in regards to the investigation of the claim as governed by the applicable laws and policy language in effect. They definately include never lie, cheat, misrepresent facts or act in bad faith. It is important to not forget who you work for and dont let providing excellent cutomer service to the insured confuse who you work for.
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    Ray Hall
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    04/19/2007 3:23 PM

    Brooks ; I was trained by an insurance company for the first two years I was in adjusting. I was trained in auto/casualty/fire/inland marie/workers comp/fidelity, along with  basic underwriting principles. It cost the carrier several thousands $ in man hours, class, schools and OJT.

    I also had the General principals of Fire & Casualty Insurance Principals, and I was never never told by any person in all the years I have been adjusting "you also work for the insured" . This is PA talk. If your thinking gets on the street and it seems it has by your own hand. You have hurt youself with this remark. 

    Any thoughts on LKQ in regards to dwelling losses or your theory on new for old policy language in the contract ( which does not exist). I am being this way to help the new people who think you may be correct and I do not want them to get the wrong information.

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    butch sanders
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    04/19/2007 5:10 PM
    so bottom line you work for the carrier.
    does that mean you short the person who pays premiums. because if you go assess damage to get an insured covered correctly, you better work for them also.
    Ray, if we meet on a Hardi Shake roof that is totaled what are you going to pay, to re-install on this roof?
    Hardi Shake is no longer manufactured. LKQ would definetely come into factor here. I would say Lamarite is the choice to install.
    thanks for your input.
    see you ion the field
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    rbryanhines
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    04/20/2007 12:18 AM
    Make no doubt when your out as an IA your an "agent" of the insurance carrier. That said one must be fair to both parties. I think all would agree that when an insured has an RCV policy there is usually betterment involved.

    as to LKQ:

    Brooks if you meet Ray on my hardishake roof and it is totaled your not gonna replace it with a laminate roof. Maybe a Firefree, but I bet alot of roofers would stand in line for the dollars from a hardishake in exchange for a laminate (from an unsavy homeowner)!
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    butch sanders
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    04/20/2007 8:32 AM
    Bryan :
    can you obtain Firefree?
    that product is junk
    Lamarite is a much better product, and it will be easy to educate homeowners on the benefits. I will easilly get Lamarite approved as a replacement. you need to do some homework on Firefree performance in Texas.
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    rbryanhines
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    04/20/2007 5:48 PM
    brooks
    I misread your post and thought you were trying to replace hardishake with a "laminate" roof(which has been tried before). However I managed several large Firefree projects in Florida in the last few years. Clients were given their choice of products (one being lamarite) and after consultation with suppliers , clients with Firefree, clients with Lamarite, roofing contractors and engineers all decided to go with Firefree. I assist in administration of warranties and to date we have no issues.
    I don't tend to agree with your opinions. Homework already done.
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    butch sanders
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    04/21/2007 6:49 PM
    I got a hardi-shake turned into lamarite today.
    i do not think firefree is a product i would want to back up.
    all respect, to each his own. i gotta think, that both roofing systems are similiar in cost, and i know for sure, lamarite performs better here.
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    butch sanders
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    04/22/2007 1:24 AM
    i are a roofer, and would appreciate a dialogue, on the higher end roofs.
    i know roofing, and believe we could get things accomplished, working together.
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    spierce
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    06/07/2007 12:41 AM

    WOW.  If "test squares" say replace,,,, then replace.  Whay even question it????  Carriers will use the test square to their advantage when denying, but will say " it is only one method of determining repair or replace when it works against them.  You do not work for the insured, that I will agree with the others on,  but "company men IA's" are very funny to me.  They are so READY !

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    Jud G.
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    06/10/2007 12:56 PM

    Test squares are not the sole deciding factor for when to replace a roof.  Most IA's will agree on that.  Yet, they are a commonly used tool and do much to bring many hail claims to an effective conclusion.  If there are limited hits on a pliable asphalt roof on all slopes, then each individual damaged shingle should be able to be replaced (roof repaired).  If there are numerous hits by hail, then the roof can be replaced.  It just depends on the age of the roof, the cause of the damage, the extent of the damage, etc.

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    Ray Hall
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    06/12/2007 2:22 PM

    I  will not address Lamirite or Fire Free as I do not know which is the better product. The only Hardi roof I ever saw was in Ft Worth in 95 that had baseball and larger hail. None of the shingle were punctured/broken. You could see "small skuff marks" on the butt end's that kinda looked like an old wood shingle that was walked on by a light weight person . Made a big note in the file and closed without a payment recommendation.

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    plpcadj
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    07/02/2007 6:34 PM
    Pay the claim damages fairly per the guidelines of the policy is my opinion. If you have enough experience,training and the ability to understand the policy coverage language you should be able to adjust the claim correctly.

    Sometimes, for sure you run into damages that are open to different interpretations (especially by certain supervisors) we've all had the those claims where the case could be made for resolving the claim damage one of two different ways. Also, it is sometimes a matter of common sense applied, just my humble opinion.
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    plpcadj
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    07/02/2007 6:39 PM
    Officially, you work for the Insured, you know- customer service, timely contact, estimation, settlement of the claim, when theres gray areas of minimum differences, it usually goes to the benefit of the Insured etc.....Unofficially, you work for whoever signs your paycheck.
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