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Last Post 11/24/2008 12:18 PM by  Ray Hall
Roll Roof est. problems
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drake
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11/12/2008 12:31 PM
    <!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} Question: Is this quote for the job stated below a reasonable quote?

     

    Hi all, this is my first time posting on this forum but i have spent some time reading your posts here. I have some problems with a recent claim and I need some guidance. I will try to lay it down as simple as possible.

    Day 0: Filled claim on Flat roof
    Day 15: Adjusters shows up and takes a look at the damage
    Day 16: I call and setup appointments with contractors on work suggested by adjuster
    Day 17: Picked contractor to do work
    Day 21: Paper work from adjuster comes in and is extremely low based on quotes from contractors
                 I know it is going to be low because I received more work then i needed but there quotes seemed very low based on my own research and I don’t see enough labor factored into that
     
    Day 30: I fax estimates from several contracts to show difference
    Day 45: They tell me that what I had done was more then what they recommended. I told them I know that but the cost you gave me still seems heavily deflated. He tells me that i need to find someone who will do the work based on what they have quoted me.
    Day 50: I call back saying people wont quote me because 1) the work is done and they do not want to come out and 2) some will charge me to come out just for the quote.

     

    Below I have included what the insurance company is willing to reimburse me for. I know that from past experiences, I need to always provide more info then what I have here so please ask anything that you think will help answering this question beter. Thank you in advance. 

    Work approved by insurance company: 

    Description                                                                 Quantity    Unit Cost    RCV     Depreciation    ACV
    Remove, tear off, haul and dispose of roll roofing    1.6SQ        28.5          45.6                0          45.6
    Roll roofing - hot mop application                               2.40SQ      92.07        220.97         - 22.1    198.97
    R&R sheathing-plywood -1/2"                                    240.00 SF    1.47       353.8            -82.8      270
    Clean up depris                                                          1.00 HR      28.76        28.76              0         28.76
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    Tom Toll
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    11/12/2008 2:05 PM
    Are you an adjuster or consumer?
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    drake
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    11/12/2008 5:11 PM
    Consumer...and not very educated in the ways of roofing :)
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    drake
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    11/12/2008 5:20 PM
    Yes...and not very educated in the ways of roofing :)
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    JimGary
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    11/12/2008 6:22 PM
    Peter, It is hard to give suggestion based on the info given. You say the adjusters estimate is heavily deflated, and the work you had estimated is more than needed. You probably need to get your contractor to bid on the work approved by your company, and work from there. If addl work is needed for proper repair, then address that with the adjuster. Generally the "I think your price is low" argument, does not get much response. Even if we knew what the contractor suggested, since we cannot see the loss, its hard to second guess what is needed.
     
    JWG
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    HuskerCat
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    11/12/2008 8:57 PM
    Kinda indicates to me this is a homeowner post.  I see how you can remove 1.6 sq of rolled roofing, and replace 2.4 sq of sheathing & rolled roofing...if you're figuring waste factors & 8x12 sheets of sheating.  I picture this as a simple little porch roof with a slight pitch, thus the rolled roofing.  But is it easy access, 10 ft off ground, doesn't need the 18' of flashing R&R'd against the upper wall, and doesn't need the gutters R&I'd in the process?  Poster didn't say what the contractors are bidding, and what they are including in their quotes.
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    swink_d
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    11/12/2008 9:08 PM
    Your not saying what the problem is.
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    okclarryd
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    11/12/2008 10:48 PM
    What you did was pick a contractor and let him do the work before you knew what the insurance company was allowing for the damage.

    If the adjuster is unwilling to meet with the contractor, and/or the contractor charged more than the prevailing price, have a nice day.

    The time for the supplement, if necessary, passed when you told the contractor to proceed without getting an agreed price. Next time, get your ducks all in a row prior to telling the contractor to proceed.

    The project is only 2 squares or so. The difference couldn't be that much.
    Larry D Hardin
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    drake
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    11/12/2008 11:40 PM
    I definitely made some mistakes with this being my first time dealing with something like this and had other issues that were taking president. Do you all feel that the quote estimated seems relatively close to what prices in your area may be? I am looking else where for the quotes on this topic also and this was just one place that i tried.

    The quote I am referring to are the prices under the "Work approved by insurance company: " in my first post. I had a hard time finding quotes from contractors since the work was already completed (dumb, dumb i know) so I am looking online for what it would have cost to get the work they suggested. I think I explained way more then I should have in the first post too, sorry about that.

    Mike,
    The project is actually for a garage. The garage has "2" types of roof so to speak. The first half of the roof is your typical high slopped roof. The second half is the low pitched flat roof you were talking about. This roof is connected to the main house.
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    swink_d
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    11/13/2008 2:09 AM
    If the square footage is correct, thats a fair price for hot mopped roll roofing and sheathing in my opinion.

    Only speculating here,

    Is that what your contractor put back? or did he put back an EPDM rubber roof?

    The adjuster would have estimated the kind of material that was damaged.


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    BobH
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    11/13/2008 8:25 AM
    Posted By Peter Tyler on 12 Nov 2008 12:31 PM
    ...I know it is going to be low because I received more work then i needed but there quotes seemed very low based on my own research and I don’t see enough labor factored into that
     
    1) Remind yourself of what you have just said in your own words.  Your policy is for Direct Physical Damage (only) and with Like Kind and Quality materials
    2) You don't see the "labor factored into that" because the unit costs = Labor and Materials.  If you were personally using the estimating software, you could dig into the guts of the database and see the breakdown of time and materials.  Many programs will print out a "time and materials" breakdown, but that is rarely printed for Insurance purposes.  It is even more "confetti on the paper"
     
    3) what was the bottom line for the Ins valuation?  Sometimes there are Base Service Charges at the end of the estimate, or tax on materials on the front of the estimate, and you will see a "total" less your deductible.
     
    4) Your project was small, and doesn't have much "economy of scale".  Adding to the points Mike made of possible overlooked tasks, that is one I personally consider on small job.  Hot-mop crews don't like to get out of bed for peanuts, and on a very small job sometimes you have to allow "trip charges" or something to bring it up to where it needs to be.
     
    As others have said, these issues should be resolved BEFORE you get the work done.  Live and learn, we all make mistakes.
    Bob H
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    okclarryd
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    11/14/2008 10:47 PM
    If you think that type of roofing is expensive, try using palm fronds.
    Larry D Hardin
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    drake
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    11/16/2008 12:42 PM
    Thank you for all your help with this. I did get a rubber roof but my adjuster said I can get whatever work done that I need but his quote will only be for the flat roof that was damaged. The rubber roof only ended up costing me 2grand which included the flashing and 10 replacement boards. I am happy with the work done but was only looking to make sure the inssurance company didnt try to cut me short on their quote. I do wish I had gotten quotes for the work the adjuster said i needed first but still everything seems to have worked out. Another thing i wanted to add was that the adjuster didnt send the paper work until 5+ days after he took a look at the roof. I should have waited tilll that came in instead of going by his word(which he didnt really tell me anything wrong anyway). Thank you all for you help and I dont think i can repay any of you for your advice on these forums but I can offer you some advice on computer related materials. If you have any computer questions feel free to email my ID and I will see if I can answer them for you.
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    Wes
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    11/16/2008 6:32 PM
    A very unusual insurance claim. If your numbers are correct then I would have estimated for a minimum charge repair and probably came in around $650.00. I am guessing that you have a $1000.00 deductible. What happened to this small section of flat roof that did not effect the sloped roof? I foresee a coverage issue as I can only guess you made a claim because this flat roof leaked. If the roof was damaged in some way such as a tree falling on it you would have much more damage and a much larger estimate. If this is a roof leak claim due to age, wear and tear there would be no coverage at all to repair the roof. However there would be coverage for any interior water damage from the leak.
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    HuskerCat
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    11/16/2008 8:10 PM
    This is not an unusual claim by any means.  It's very common when the flat (or slightly sloped sections of) roof develop leaks after a storm.  And it's usually on older homes where the previous owner or the current owner elected an economical yet sure to fail someday roof.  It gets worse if you live in the midwest or somewhere susceptible to snow & ice build-up on those little extension roofs.  Interior water damage can occur over a period of time in wall cavities, and often times unbeknownst to the owner until a major event. 
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    hunter0544
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    11/16/2008 9:46 PM
    Posted By Larry Hardin on 12 Nov 2008 10:48 PM
    ...................
    The time for the supplement, if necessary, passed when you told the contractor to proceed without getting an agreed price. Next time, get your ducks all in a row prior to telling the contractor to proceed..........   

    I am not too sure about this statement.  "Supplement" I believe is the addition to something by which its defects are rectified and it is thereby made more full or complete.  Moreover, I do  not think  policies set a time limit for supplement to "before you proceed with necessary repairs".   If that statement were true it would not be possible to "re-open" files after the repairs have been done, especially when the contractor's repair scope includes items covered by policy.

     

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    swink_d
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    11/16/2008 11:01 PM
    Posted By Wes Davis on 16 Nov 2008 06:32 PM
    A very unusual insurance claim. If your numbers are correct then I would have estimated for a minimum charge repair and probably came in around $650.00. I am guessing that you have a $1000.00 deductible. What happened to this small section of flat roof that did not effect the sloped roof? I foresee a coverage issue as I can only guess you made a claim because this flat roof leaked. If the roof was damaged in some way such as a tree falling on it you would have much more damage and a much larger estimate. If this is a roof leak claim due to age, wear and tear there would be no coverage at all to repair the roof. However there would be coverage for any interior water damage from the leak.

    *****************************************************************************************

    Thats an awful lot af assumptions and 1 major incorrect policy statement made in 1 post
     
    I don't see what is unusual. We don't know which state he is, which if any storm caused the damage, what the going MN rate is in his area, what policy he has. No idea about the deductible etc.
     
    and i think a review of a policy in order 
    ISO HO3

    A.           Coverage A – Dwelling and Coverage B – Other Structures

    2.            We do not insure, however, for loss:

    c.            Caused by:

                    (5)      Mold, fungus or wet rot.
                    (6) Any of the following
                         (a)         Wear and tear, marring, deterioration;
     
     
     
     
    I am not sure how you figure if the roof is aged and rotted you can find coverage for interior damages,



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    Wes
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    11/17/2008 2:40 PM
    d swink, here in Florida where I handle all daily claims we allow for all interior water damage from roof leak no matter what caused the roof to leak and this can include $10,000.00 in mold remediation, full kitchen replacements if over the cabinetry etc. The thought is the roof damage is long term and not covered but the actual leak itself is sudden and accidental. This is referred to as 'ensuing damage'. There is of course coverage issues for the repair/replacement of the roof. If the roof was in some way damaged falling tree, storm, lightning etc then the roof is covered. If the roof is leaking due to age which is 99% (flat roof) of the time down here then there is no coverage for the roof. Here in the Florida sun a flat roof has very limited life span. The hot mop seal cracks, shrinks and fails from exposure or the flashings pull from the stucco walls where the flat roof meets a vertical wall. Of course there is also no coverage for the roof installed incorrectly or some other defect. In regards to my $650.00 minimum I am not sure what areas you commonly work in but a licensed/insured roofer down here won't pull a ladder off of his truck for less than a $1000.00. Now if the roofer thinks he can turn the repair into a full replacement he will bring donuts, coffee and read your kids a bedtime story before he ever pulls out of your driveway. Flat roof leaks are 60% of my claims. Cast iron drain failures below slab 15%. Polybutylene and rubber water supply lines make up the rest. I get the occasional kitchen fire and now within the last few years dropped/falling object on tile flooring. One chipped $3.00 tile and we are paying for $50,000.00 2000sf remodel. This is a whole other story that I would be glad to discuss in another thread. LOL
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    BobH
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    11/17/2008 9:58 PM
    Wes, it is very similar in California. 
     
    The rubber roof only ended up costing me 2grand which included the flashing and 10 replacement boards.
     
    The fact that deck boards needed to be replaced tells us that this is a 'long term leak". And of course Ins policies exclude Rot, Decay, etc.  The scope of repair on the roof would be limited - but the ensuing damage to interior would typically be covered unless you have strong evidence that the interior damage was also long term.
    Bob H
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    HuskerCat
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    11/17/2008 10:43 PM
    "one chipped $3.00 tile and we are paying for a $50K remodel"......A little bit of exaggeration I hope?    (there's just a little ol' picture out here for about everything a guy could want, well just about everything.)   Somebody traded the coffee beans for a different kind of bean if your counter is letting that kind of thing fly.
     
     
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