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| 11/21/2008 1:42 AM |
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Thought I would show you guys a few.
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StormSupportGold Member  Member Posts:203  
| 11/21/2008 8:45 AM |
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North Prairie Tileworks
Professional Expertise; Personalized Service
Our 20 years of designer ceramic and clay experience are reflected in the high quality and originality of our work. We offer over 50 stock colors, a wide array of shapes and sizes, all made from our own clay and glaze recipes. Or, if you prefer, we can create custom tiles to your exact specifications.
http://www.handmadetile.com/
I'm sure this isn't the only place that can/will make custom tiles. Why wouldn't something like this be a better option than replacing the entire floor? Do the right thing, ALWAYS
~Meg~
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Ray Hall Senior Member Posts:2443
| 11/21/2008 9:56 AM |
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Why do we have a court system for contracts and torts to be adjudicated if they are not used?? Its just money, if a person that has no assets or liability insurance has ever been sued for damages on a tort liability claim I have never heard about it.
Do you ever hear of a bare foot kid cutting their foot on an escalator being tried in court. NEVER. Fifty years ago Insurance Company of North America insured ever escalator company in the US and tried EVER CASE and won EVER Case. These Florida carriers need to try any case that has material made by a man. If it is made by a man it CAN be duplicated by a differant man. Clog the system for five years save millions in incresed premiums for this insane thinking: OOP,s the light just came on......decreased premiums........ not a chance until people go back to buying fire and windstorm insurance only. |
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| 11/21/2008 12:47 PM |
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Meg we do send tile experts out on every claim including the occasional structural engineer along with the tile expert. Although I have no experience with a custom tile manufacturer I would doubt their abilities to perfectly match an existing tile. Let alone how do they obtain their color match sample. The tile debris are disposed of by the plumber long before the insurance claim is filed. People want their water turned on or their toilets flushing immediately, filing the claim is secondary. Also most of these tile materials are natural stone not a manufactured ceramic and the stone of course can not be matched. Out of the three photos I posted two are natural and one is a ceramic.
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MedulusModerator  Veteran Member Posts:786
| 11/21/2008 5:45 PM |
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The last photo looks like it already has three different dye lots. Is that just the light, or has some previous repair been made that did not include matching?
I'm a little skeptical, as well, about the ability of a custom tile maker to exactly match an existing tile. But for the difference between a $10 single tile and a $135,000 full tile replacement, I might be willing to remove a second tile and send it off to see if it is possible. Jesus may have been referring to the claims practices of some of the large bean counting carriers when he said, "You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel." Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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HuskerCatVeteran Member Posts:762
| 11/21/2008 10:16 PM |
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It seems pretty simple to me, but I then again I must be simple minded. If the removed tiles have been discarded, you want to jack out several other tiles in randon sections in order to give an expert the opportunity to make a proper match. If they are man-made, they CAN be duplicated (and don't let them talk you into the "faded BS"). If they're earthstone, well...seasons change, so does your floor. Looked at your pics, and there's plenty of harvesting to be done, or just buy them a couple more area rugs...in fact, offer them a couple of $4000 oriental throws & call it good if they don't want to go with option #1. If the ins co is buying it, then they own it (salvage for the next person). Much like Rubik's Cube, I would do everything I could to mix & match...but unfortunately,that is going to require some destructive sampling. But I have the right to take every tile & the salvage value is ours if it comes down to R&R 100%. Pick your poison.
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759 
| 11/21/2008 11:48 PM |
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Posted By Steve Ebner on 21 Nov 2008 05:45 PM
The last photo looks like it already has three different dye lots.
Yeah, I saw that too. Reminded me of an Insd that called the Manager, DEMANDING not to have a "patch job" on his roof. We looked at the photos taken after the storm, and he already had 3 distinct colors of shingles on the roof that were wind-damaged.
Mankind has historically patched roofing and fences for centuries. We never patch carpet, but will take it to a closing doorway.
The vast majority of carriers will paint the entire room's walls, or the entire ceiling as a standard practice. Just cuz the floor is expensive doesn't mean that you wouldn't apply the same standard IF the repair doesn't have a reasonably uniform appearance.
Why do we have a court system for contracts and torts to be adjudicated if they are not used??
I believe that the FC&S bulletins will show that our application of policy (and the morphing policy language) are born of litigation. The courts HAVE been used by Insurance companies - who are often sued, and have to respond to attempt victory.
Where I do "day claims" between storms, the litigation after the 1994 Northridge EQ gave us a very strange definition of ACV that resulted from an odd court decision. The plaintiff argued that his "real estate" had "appreciated" rather than depreciated. The California court ruled that unless the policy specifically defined ACV as RCV less depreciation, it would define ACV as "market value" affected by location, (although we don't insure the dirt) etc. So we had a few strange years until most carriers re-wrote their policy to define ACV as depreciated.
Wes states that he has lived through court cases in Florida, and they do shape how claim exec's choose their battles. Ironically the people taking advantage of the system screw it up for the rest, as you folks have pointed out. Our challenge is making a correct decision of scope while on site, and measuring the continuous area just to be prepared in case the replacement materials look terrible.
This is a very common issue, even with wood floor that has been exposed to sun for over 3 years and had "yellowed" or whatever even when you sand - stain - refinish with "laced in" new wood. You just have to make your best assessment, and respond with the issues if the match isn't acceptable.
Bob H
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759
| 11/22/2008 12:04 AM |
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Posted By Mike Kunze on 21 Nov 2008 10:16 PM
I have the right to take every tile & the salvage value is ours if it comes down to R&R 100%.
I have seen tiles (or stone) "come loose" fairly easy around the region of a plumbing leak that may have been going on for a while before it manifested in the living area.
The main field of the floor is not going to have significant salvage value, you can't pull it off intact. That is also the case with counters, back-splash, etc. When you compare it with commercially available boxes of product in whatever needed quantity, it isn't practical to remove thin-set from the back of tiles (or stone). At least the times I tried to walk that road. It's usually a hammer or reciprocating chisel that gets used.
One other point to all of this: a manufactured home with econo construction may have a policy limit for the dwelling approaching 100,000. The McMansions with stone-marble-etc issues are going to be insured for 500k (and up). You are just glad the thing didn't catch fire. The person with an expensive home is paying a higher premium for the risk, and the 30k floor is proportionate to a 6k loss at the econo home. Bob H
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Ray HallSenior Member Posts:2443
| 11/22/2008 3:33 PM |
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In 1965 after hurricane Betsy in New Orleans many of the staff adjusters had slate stored in the old established roofers warehouse and we would borrow from each others stock if we needed a shade of blue, green, grey, whatever. Were did we get the original stock pile. In downtown NO from the old row houses that were rental units. What did we replace it with a shingle called "Timberline". The new roof owner was happy, all the houses in the garden district and the roofer were happy.
The Insurance Carriers in South Florida should appoint a large floor wholesale house to keep 10K of ever tile ever made in the warehouse and ship to the the areas needing a few pcs.
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| 11/22/2008 5:12 PM |
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You guys are correct about that last picture. Its tile inspection is still pending. I made the inspection company very aware of the color variations in my inspection request report. Those tiles are marble by the way which is one of the reasons for the color variations. I asked the public adjuster and insured about that line of distinct tiles across the floor and of course they denied any knowledge of a previous repair.
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759
| 11/22/2008 11:36 PM |
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Posted By Wes Davis on 18 Nov 2008 12:44 AM
...The insured will not agree to different tile in the effected room with a transitional decorative threshhold between the adjoining rooms. This claim will require all tile be removed, all base removed, all cabinets and vanities reset, long term storage of contents, minimum two weeks hotel ALE, tile and base replaced, walls painted etc etc etc. The estimate is already approaching $130,000.00. And even this estimate is on the lowball side. If the granite countertops and backsplash of the cabinets and vanities crack during resetting we will be on the hook for that as well. Got to love south Florida, public adjusters and contractors...
Wes, I had dinner tonight with my old Branch Manager who moved to Florida 8 years ago, became litigation mgr at a large Insurance company. He says it is exactly as you describe it in South Florida.
Says the PA's have no interest in negotiating with adjusters because they just want it to go to appraisal.
Bob H
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Ray HallSenior Member Posts:2443
| 11/23/2008 10:32 AM |
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All of you have known about my rant about PA,s and water suckers. For some reason this morning a switch was turned on after reading Bobs post about his old boss. All I have to do to make a better living is to go with the flow. I will now turn around and start my float down the river on my back.
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Tom TollModerator & Life Member Senior Member Posts:1865 
| 11/23/2008 12:57 PM |
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Bob's friend is absolutely correct. Insurance in Florida sucks. No wonder some major companies do not wish to write there. PA's, for most part in Florida and Texas, are a waste of humanity, as are the water suckers. I am with Ray on that one.
I must tell a story here about a well known PA in Dallas. Back in 96 or 98, I believe it was, we were, (Janice and I) working with a PA on a hail damage claim. Of course, every little eruption, foot fall, and mechanical failure of the shingles was hail to him. We got to a chimney chase and I saw no hail damage. He pointed out an area he said was hail. It actually was bird poop. I told him this, hey, I learned an old trick years ago. If it is hail, you wet a finger with your tongue, rub that hail mark, then put your finger to your tongue. If it is fresh hail, you can taste the paint. HE DID IT. Said it tasted like crap. I told him then he had just put bird crap on his tongue and from now on be realistic and truthful about his handling of the damage. He walked off the roof cussing like a sailor. To this day, he will not work with me on a claim, which is fine with me. This is really a true story. I love messing with PA's.
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759
| 11/23/2008 9:54 PM |
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Posted By Tom Toll on 23 Nov 2008 12:57 PM
...It actually was bird poop. I told him this, hey, I learned an old trick years ago. If it is hail, you wet a finger with your tongue, rub that hail mark, then put your finger to your tongue. If it is fresh hail, you can taste the paint. HE DID IT. Said it tasted like crap....
... I love messing with PA's.
Priceless. If you could have captured that on film you could retire from the royalties. You have large ones.
Bob H
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| 11/23/2008 11:02 PM |
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I have the benefit of not being permitted by the carrier to negotiate with PA's. While I am doing my inspection and scope they will be right behind me saying they want this replaced that repaired pointing here and there so on and so on. It goes in one of my ears and out the other with the occasional head nod on my part to make them think I am listening. One thing that does annoy the crap out of me is the PA that walks behind me spouting insurance rules and regulations, statutes, codes and the biggest one 'prior case law'. I could care less how something was settled in a prior court case with a claim that has nothing to do with why I am in this particular home. Now if a PA provides me with an estimate of damages I am glad to review it and there has been a few times when I have added to my own scope because of something the PA had in his/her estimate that was brought to my attention. The carriers I work with do not negotiate with the PA's either. They pay the insured according to my estimate and if the PA disagrees then it is up to him/her to take it to the next level. For the most part I don't have a problem with any of the PA's and have gotten to know most of them quite well over the years. One other thing that really irks me is the contractor who thinks he is an insurance adjuster or PA telling me what the insured is owed or not owed. Those guys get totally ignored from the minute they start talking their crap.
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Tom TollModerator & Life Member Senior Member Posts:1865
| 11/24/2008 10:13 AM |
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Bob, I did take pictures of that, 35MM back in those days. I have been trying to find them, but could not publish them anyway. Hank may try to sue me, LOL. That's one of many PA stories I could tell. Yes, I am a little wicked at time with PA's, but, that's what keeps me going. I am sure glad we don't have them in Arkansas. I do like some PA's however. They are decent and honest and I appreciate those that are.
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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Ray HallSenior Member Posts:2443
| 11/24/2008 12:18 PM |
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Houston has several contingency roofing contractors who do very well. My best story was about 8 years ago when we had a REAL hail storm in the SW part of Houston. Of course all the real adjusters and roofers knew the local of the REAL hail. This loss was not in that area and the young roofer called in and wanted me to meet him on the roof. I did and found some fungus knocked off this old comp shingle roof. I said these were not hail damage as they did not damage the mat or the slate coating. He disagreed and said he would get his boss involved who was a roofer/adjuster for many years. The salesman called to make an appointment to reinspect the roof and it just so happened that the only time I could make the inspection was at 5.00 PM on a Friday after my long day after being at the law center on a on going mediation that I had been involved in for about 8 months. And I let the salesman know about this also.
I dove up a 5 PM, took of my $300. suit jacket my $80.00 tie and my $250.00 loafers and put on my $40.00 roof climbers rolled up my sleeves and inspected ever inch of the roof for about 20 min. in the hot summer sun until all our clothes were wet and got both to conced the roof was 50% aged out, but they brow beat me into agreeing it was a total loss from the hail hits that I could not see. I said lets get on the ground and I would write it up, and we did. We figured the sqs and got an agreement, then took 50 % depreciation on the hold back which was about $1800. I then had an Acv loss of $1800 and took my 2% Ded which was $2,000. Which means we do not write a check intil the roof is replaced, right. WRONG I then delt the river card ..... the policy was an old Texas HOA ...ACV policy that did not have Replacemnt Cost Coverage and the lage gap in the roofers/adjusters insurance knowledge was expose for all the world to see. I drove about 5 block to meet my buds for a cold one and a good laugh |
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