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Last Post 08/07/2008 7:29 PM by  sbeau4014
E & O
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2roadrunners
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08/03/2008 8:23 AM

    I don't see anything regarding E & O insurance mentioned. As independent adjusters do folks carry this type of protection as do most Realtors?

    Thanks...

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    Ray Hall
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    08/03/2008 11:39 AM

    Its a mixed bag. IA's who are employees are covered by the employer. Some vendors pay for their sub contractors, some subtract the cost from the fees, some require the sub to carry. I have never had my own policy and never will. sounds like fun huh.

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    Tom Toll
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    08/03/2008 11:50 AM

    I have never purchased E&O. Friends of mine have and have had claims, but E&O did not protect them, so the heck with it. Read the policy and tell me how it protects you against bad faith, etc. Fortunately I have never had a bad faith claim or any other claim in my 48 years as an adjuster.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    Ray Hall
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    08/03/2008 1:48 PM

    You have it right Tom, I have read about ever form of adjusters E & O that I can find for the last 25 years. I am confused about what the protection for the person who spends good money is. The master and servant laws still prevail in the US and I have never worked any claim/losses in 50 years that I was not the servant. The E & O and CGL policy is used to "screen out people" who want to start an IA firm, and thats good, because we have to many too many now and thats why I give up 40,35 or 30%.

    Shoot it does not cover crooked acts and ignorance; therefore the informed and straight shooters do not need it to work.

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    2roadrunners
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    08/04/2008 10:27 AM

    Thanks all...quite a bit different from Realtor E & O...at least here in MI. I guess it depends on the company you hook up with. Some real estate brokers had it buried inside their 'desk' charge to their contracted Realtor's, but the larger brokers typically had their own in-house legal staff to help where gaps in the E & O didn't help you out. The bottom line...practice your trade with honesty and integrity and no one will every have to worry about having protection against issues.

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    Ray Hall
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    08/04/2008 11:03 AM

    This not on topic; but in my years of adjusting liability claims, I am sure some defendants have been sued THAT did not have liability insurance that I did not hear about. However, in Texas today with joint and several liability changes in the Texas law a plaintiff would never name such a defendant; but the other defendants would sure as heck 3rd party them in. Makes some of  us think its not about justice, its the $$$ honey.

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    Jud G.
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    08/04/2008 2:50 PM

    The interpretation of who's E&O policy (vendor or IA) needs to get involved, varies from state to state. Consult legal assistance on this matter.

    Determining the necessity of the policy depends on the vendor and eventually you and how much peace of mind and marketability you want. I consistently perform services for about five vendors and two of them have required me to have them specifically listed on my certificate. The others either just require that I have it (don't request that I list them) or don't care because their's covers the work of their firm and their adjusters who work on a 1099 basis.

    For just under 960 bucks a year, I keep my E&O/GL policy in force with a smile and happily pay my agent the $50 surcharge to have the vendor listed on my policy. For just a couple of claims, you can have this expense paid for. Also, consider incorporating to help protect your personal finances and assets.

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    2roadrunners
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    08/04/2008 3:46 PM

    Now, this is the kind of info I was looking for...thanks Jud!

    Being the extremely litigious society that we ALL have the privilege of basking in, I couldn't agree more that for the cost (seasoned with proper and correct legal advice and methods of protection available, ie. Corp, S-Corp, LLC, whatever makes sense), it is definitely worth having, if not at least considering.

    Having had the privilege of sitting on a Realtor Board arbitration committee some years ago and sorting through case-after-case of Realtor/Broker/Agent (alleged) negligence, it became very clear that such protection (E & O) was absolutely necessary unless you were extremely wealthy and/or totally oblivious to such eventualities. That's why I asked the question as it pertains to the Adjuster world as I don't see any differences in exposure to these types of "pains-in-the-butt-opportunistic-thrill-seekers" (sorry...Realtor technical term)...

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    BobH
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    08/04/2008 8:53 PM
    Posted By Jud G. 
    ...For just under 960 bucks a year, I keep my E&O/GL policy in force

    That is a really good rate. I have been getting quotes for almost double that for just the lowest 250,000 limit E&O (no General Liability).

    Where are you getting yours?  If you would rather not broadcast it, maybe you could send me an Email...

    Bob H
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    Jud G.
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    08/04/2008 10:16 PM

    My pleasure roadrunner.

    Bob, it's no secret; AMIS Insurance brokers the policy for First Mercury Insurance with $1,000,000 for EO and GL with a small deductible.  And plus, this national firm is out of your home state. 

    I should be getting a referral fee from these guys since I've recommended quite a few people to them over the past couple of years, lol.

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    BobH
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    08/04/2008 10:32 PM
    Posted By Jud G. ...And plus, this national firm is out of your home state. 

     

    Thanks Jud. Let's see if they charge more for California based adjusters, where 1/2 the phone book is attorney ads...

    Bob H
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    HuskerCat
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    08/04/2008 11:01 PM

    Some of the old timers (Ray & Tom) bring up the fact that they have never had E&O coverage on a personal level, and also never seen where the coverage would kick in for them.  I think they speak volumes, if you read the policy language.  Having worked several years as a staff adjuster for a carrier whose book was heavily weighted to the commercial end, I can only remember 2 occasions where an E&O claim had coverage.  Both were for "Printers", and just 1 ended up being a payable loss since a 3rd party was deemed to be the eventual party at fault.  Had a few (not a lot) of claims presented for E&O, but there was never coverage.  Did the old ROR letter, the mandatory investigation, and ultimately the denial of coverage on those.  Understood, E&O coverage is a strange animal and may afford coverage depending on the circumstances.  Read your policy very very very carefully, otherwise you are sending your money up the chimney in smoke.  Did I mention read the policy language??  

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    kds008
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    08/04/2008 11:26 PM

    Check out CPLIC (Claims Professionals Liability Insurance Company). http://www.cplic.net/ .  

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    BobH
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    08/04/2008 11:28 PM
    Posted By HuskerCat
     ...the fact that they have never had E&O coverage on a personal level, and also never seen where the coverage would kick in for them.  I think they speak volumes, if you read the policy language

    I agree with you, I am not getting E&O for my protection, it is required by some clients (similar to what Jud is saying here)

    Posted By Jud G. ...and two of them have required me to have them specifically listed on my certificate. The others either just require that I have it
    Bob H
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    2roadrunners
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    08/05/2008 8:42 AM

    My wife just made a comment I have to share..."all personal liability insurance is a ripoff until you need it!"...

    On the other hand, as a matter of interpretation, any act of service (in any licensed profession) can be proven to be some sort of violation of rules or regulations by any young (or old...don't want to be discriminatory now), gungho (sp?) attorney out to make a name for himself...as long as the money is right...

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    sbeau4014
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    08/07/2008 7:29 PM
    I'm going to chime in here on what I know about E & O coverages. I have never worked a claim for it personally, but have been involved in a lot of discussions/round tables on E &O cases (and malpractice cases which are very similiar)when I was in staff mgt as we provided cover for some larger iA firms. To a certain degree, they may have considered the coverage really wasn't needed as I can't remember any cases that were paid from the coverages. But, I can tell you that the coverage picked up the defense costs of the cases and that ran into the tens of thousands of dollars on some of the cases. Deductibles ranged from $1,000 to probably $10,000, but I really didn't know of any that the deductible was greater then the defense costs. When I quit my day job for this life on the road I bought a package policy that gave me 2 million E&O cover, 2 million GL cover and had 20K for my business equipment with tons of perks like loss of earnings, special puter and data coverage (pays for crashes and cost to restore data, re-enter data, etc) and it was costing me around $1,000-$1,200 a year. That was about 2-3 years ago, but dropped it as I wasn't needing it for quite ahwile. once I finish my gig here I'll probably get another policy like it. Also, it had only a $500 deductible for both property and E&O. It was through the Hartford and I had it through Halls insurance in Dickenson TX, which changed names a few years ago and don't remember the new name. Maybe Ray is familiar with them. the agent's name was Sheila Hardy and she was great to work with. She at one time was gearing up to target adjuster E&O with that package and actually was on the site here with either advertising or on the forums. I am dealing with nothing but bad faith lawsuits right now out of hurricane Katrina and I have seen numerous ones (over 20) that the IA firm and or the adjuster were listed. Each one of those firms and adjusters are probably happy they have coverage to give them a defense, or else the legal fee would be out of their own pocket. Don't count on the carrier or even the IA vendor picking up your defense.
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