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Last Post 09/11/2007 1:10 PM by  Jud G.
2007 Version of Know before you Go.
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Ray Hall
Posts:2443


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08/11/2007 5:20 PM

    My opine is not as good as the experts; but I think a monster hurricane will hit Texas or Florida with in the next 50 days.

    All new and old adjusters try not to be cheated by the known and not surfaced vendors and subs of venders and the subs of the subs. Ask more questions. Keep a copy of ever file that you submitted for payment on PAPER with the date the computer printed it out.

    This file is your evidence you did the work . Make the vendor sign a release allowing you to contact the carrier direct, JUST TO VERIFY the file turned in and paid was your work ALONE. (The carrier will comply with your request, if you use the carriers claim number)This will put a damper on this practice. Any reasonable person can use black ink on the paper file not to disclose private information. Get all the address, contact people, structure of the vendor BEFORE you go. I would even require my first assignments by the net before leaving town.

    If you do not stand up now, do not whine in 2008.

    ** Old adjusters get screwed also, do not join that crowd.

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    claims_ray
    Advanced Member
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    Posts:293


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    08/11/2007 5:45 PM
    The information I was given is that Citizens is requiring a dump of all information including scope notes prior to leaving the storm.
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    jlombardo
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    08/11/2007 6:09 PM
    Okay......so what........it is your work....keep a copy on your backup hard drive........dump the files on your C-drive......How in the world could they possibly enforce such a requirement........and if you do not, and you get paid then all is well...if you do not and a vendor cheats you, where is your proof that you did the work if you dump the files...It is just Citizens way of trying to distance themselves from the unscrupulous vendor.......

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    claims_ray
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    08/11/2007 8:48 PM
    Just pointing out the expectations of a vendor.
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    brighton
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    08/11/2007 9:47 PM

    I!

    Rocke Baker
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    Jud G.
    Senior Member
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    Posts:509


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    08/11/2007 11:33 PM

    What's all the fuss about FL Citizens anyway?  There's few hundred OTHER carriers who write in Florida that pay better and have file requirements made by Adjusters who know how to close claims versus the auditors and bean counters that can't see the forest for the trees.

    How about a forum dedicated to guiding adjusters toward these carriers and the vendors that service them?  Let's face it, while FL Citizens may be the largest vendor out there, there will be plenty of reward for those individuals who concentrate on finding the sweet spots in Sunny FL- should the big one hit there...

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    EOC1
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    08/12/2007 4:27 AM
    The information I was given is that Citizens is requiring a dump of all information including scope notes prior to leaving the storm.
     
     
     

    I am a Staff Adjuster with Citizens and I have not heard anything about "Dumping files" after a storm.

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    Jud G.
    Senior Member
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    08/12/2007 8:36 AM

    In response to the original post by Ray H.  Wouldn't working for vendors that pay before the carrier pays and within or on the very next pay period (whether it be monthly or weekly) be a key solution to this problem? 

    Turn files in gradually as you go and avoid sandbagging.  This curbs management headaches and gives you a chance to find out vendor practices and expectations before you have to correct a hundred files that are all wrong.  Or, before you find out that someone is rewriting your claims.  This practice occurs seldom, but it does happen and everyone hears about it.

    I am all for getting your files before leaving town, but some carriers require that the vendors ante up with adjusters first before handing out the files.  Vendors and Carriers are just as concerned about adjusters as some adjusters are about Vendors and Carriers.

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    claims_ray
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    08/12/2007 10:21 AM

    Maybe this was the requirement of the adjusting firm that I attended the Citizens storm orientation class. I was only passing on what I was told.  This is under the heading of KNOW BEFORE YOu GO.

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    Ray Hall
    Posts:2443


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    08/12/2007 1:49 PM

    Pilot and probably several others give you copy of the fee bill when the file has been approved. If all vendors did this you would probably not be cheated. Let me stop at this point and say this. I have seen a lot of files and I do not think SOME people who are trying to be catastrophe adjusters are turning in paper work that is a COMPLETE-PASSABLE FILE and sadly do not know the differance.

    Dumping all your files has nothing to do with YOUR evidence if you PRINT it on the day it was turned in. IF I was looking at evidence I would require a chronological flow.

    I know some adjusters who can do the job are being cheated as I have been flim flamed. It seems most of the post on this subject is from new people who PUT THEMSELVES in this position. Why not limit your deployment to only the vendors who can pay bi-monthly on turned in files or some one you have worked for BEFORE and paid you ever penny.

    Many vendors pry on the inexperienced adjusters with just a license knowing they will flounder and take the paper notes and the photos after 2 or 3 weeks of trying to turn in good files. This material can then be reworked with out an inspection and with a phone call.  A passable file turned in and the poor mullet who did the first contact is left out.

    Many a flood file is closed with FCN 's that were never in the same state and thousands of miles away.

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    Ray Hall
    Posts:2443


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    08/12/2007 2:00 PM

    Jud brings a lot of sanity to this discussion.

    The rush to the scene is for show. Many adjusters sleep in their auto's or motels without any power for 24-72 hours without any files just to prove to SOMEONE it can be done.

    This year would be a good year for sanity. All adjusters need to stay at home and get their files, make contact and LEAVE their contact information and calm the insureds down . If you talk to the insured as soon as possible, give instructions, advise is all they need .Another 2-3 days ot 2-3 weeks for a set appointment is all they need.

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    MDC
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    08/12/2007 11:13 PM
    My advice, If you are a "newbie" and have poor organizational skills, you might want to work for State Farm. They will provide basically everything for you and micro manage you so you cannot fail. If you fail within thier program, maybe CAT adjusting is not for you.

    A good CAT adjuster had to be very organized, communicate well, deal with stress and most of all help the insureds who have incured damage. If you are in it for the money, get out. We are a profession and not a job.
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    01Snake
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    08/12/2007 11:22 PM
    Posted By Mike Carli on 08/12/2007 11:13 PM
    My advice, If you are a "newbie" and have poor organizational skills, you might want to work for State Farm. They will provide basically everything for you and micro manage you so you cannot fail. If you fail within thier program, maybe CAT adjusting is not for you.

    A good CAT adjuster had to be very organized, communicate well, deal with stress and most of all help the insureds who have incured damage. If you are in it for the money, get out. We are a profession and not a job.

     

    Anyone who says they're not in it for the money are lying through their teeth. Sure a lot of people really enjoy helping people but the main motivational factor is money. Don't kid yourself. If being an IA paid $50k per year, would you still do it since you like to help people and you're not in it for the money??
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    MDC
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    08/12/2007 11:46 PM

    Anyone who says they're not in it for the money are lying through their teeth. Sure a lot of people really enjoy helping people but the main motivational factor is money. Don't kid yourself. If being an IA paid $50k per year, would you still do it since you like to help people and you're not in it for the money?? Rob Banks




    Rob, Hate to disagree with you. I have done quite well adjusting daily claims.
    I am not in this for the money. I have been in this business long enough to know, that money is not the solution to all things.
    If you believe it is, great. I do not.

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    Jud G.
    Senior Member
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    08/13/2007 10:03 AM

    Thanks Ray.  There's a lot of truth to your statement and then again, there's a genuine interest by the blue shirts and the red shirts to be on site.  A significant portion of their business is built upon a good PR response.  Their customers that are a part of the first wave of claims expect a clear and identifiable response to the hype.

    Here's a link to an article put together by Dave Hood that sums up the basics of knowing before you go in both a concise and effective fashion: http://www.catadjuster.org/Home/Blo...spx. 

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    Gale Hawkins
    PowerClaim.com
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    08/15/2007 7:06 PM
    Mike that was a good reply to Bob that showed a lot of understanding. Rob might be surprised to learn how many IA’s would be very pleased to net $50K a year over the long haul. I am not sure I have ever met anyone in any profession that was at the top of their profession that was in it for the money. Money tends to be a by-product of doing what you love if it adds value to others. Prison is full of people that did things solely for the money. I think one of the worse things that can happen to a new Cat adjuster is to jump out there and have a $150K year and expect that to be the case year after year.
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    Ray Hall
    Posts:2443


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    08/15/2007 10:09 PM

    Many females have remarked to my wife who is a realtor, oh I just love looking at houses I think I will become a realtor. You have to be a very hard working realtor to make over $150,000 per year and only about 10% of residentual realtor are in this bracket. And their hour's are almost as long as catastrophe adjusters. They last about 6-9 months.

    How many people in this business rolled out of bed one morning and said, OH I just love helping people and I want to become a Workers Compensation Adjuster to help the poor injured workers. Oh I just love helping people and I want to work in the SIU unit of the big insurance companys. Or lets get close to home I want to work regular day in day out Homeowners claims, because I just love to help people on insurance claims such as odd fire's  water claims, or theft claims.

    In summary I have met several hundred insurance adjusters staff and independant, including cat. only adjusters and I have never ask why they do what they do; but I knew they were like me.... the money honey.

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    Gale Hawkins
    PowerClaim.com
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    08/15/2007 11:06 PM

    Ray I hear what you are saying and I am beginning to understand people are motivated by different things. Those that are not motivated or driven primarily by money just do not fully grasp the minds of those who are. There is nothing evil about money we know. There is nothing evil about not being motivated by money. If it was not for those that paid a lot of taxes then we would be a third world country overnight. I think the artist types (right brain I think) will do something just because something is inside of them that wants a physical presents and they will paint, create, build, etc where they receive money or not for their efforts. I guess others are motivated to create money (perhaps right brain as well) so they with intent create money by design by selecting vocations that are perceived to add value to others so they can create a lot of money to purchase those things that they perceive as having value if it is not just the money itself. At some level we all work for money because we do not live in a barter society so we “require” money for the food, shelter and clothing in our society.

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    SteveZ
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    08/15/2007 11:11 PM
    I am not trying to FOOL anyone here... I got into this business because the person who introduced me to it explained that he had made over $90,000 per year for the prior three years, and worked about six months average each of those years. I was working a $48K salary job, five and a half days a week, 11 hours a day, and saw this line of work as a way out of the "rat race".

    I have worked long and hard, gotten the necessary licenses, company certifications, and handled a few thousand total claims over the past five years, both as a field adjuster, and file examiner. I really enjoy the JOB, and, would possibly consider going STAFF if the money was a bit better than it currently IS for staff adjusters.

    Don't kid yourselves, folks... The money is great in the good years, but it sucks raw eggs in the slow years.
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    cantonking
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    08/16/2007 1:07 PM

    Steve,

    This is a profession not a job. Did you miss that discussion?

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    01Snake
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    08/16/2007 2:35 PM
    Posted By Gale Hawkins on 08/15/2007 7:06 PM
    Rob might be surprised to learn how many IA’s would be very pleased to net $50K a year over the long haul.

     

    I would say these people should just be staff adjusters if they are happy with 50 large a year. Might as well get the benefits outta the deal if your content on that salary.
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    rbryanhines
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    08/17/2007 5:53 PM
    I 've been on and off this site for some time and know a few of the vets. I usually don't respond but I can't help myself in light of some of the recent post on various topics.
    1. This is a cat site and most cat adjusters can service carries without the full range of policy and insurance principles. Some have implied that if you don'y have all the knowledge of various policies you have no business adjusting. There is a huge difference between the knowledge required to be a cat adjuster than that of a Staff adjuster. Most carriers would rather the IA be a estimator. Most cat adjusters just need to understand the HO policy and will do fine. I know of some Cat adjusters whom only have understanding of the HO policy and have made a great living in cat adjusting! I dont see the need for trying to make some feel they are inferior.
    2. I've been an IA for over 12 years and have done well. I'm in it for the money. That does not mean I don't like helping people but the main people I like to help is my wife and kids. Someone said "If you are in it for the money, get out. We are a profession and not a job." I will get out when I feel the compensation is too low for my work product and the time away from the family.

    If I had to encourage someone starting out I would encourage them secure another revenue stream for the slow times. When I started I had a janitorial business that serviced commercial properties. Without this add'l source of income it would have made it hard to make it.
    GL







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    Tom Toll
    Moderator & Life Member
    Posts:1865


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    08/17/2007 6:47 PM

    One thing I realized many years ago is the fact that if you enjoy helping others in time of THEIR crisis, that you automatically get compensated for it. If money is the only proclivity you have in this business, try to allow yourself to give some empathy to your insured.  Of course we all have to make a living in this business or there would be no one to adjust losses and that would be sad. That is one reason I have tried to learn all I could relative to this occupation, which makes me a better person and a knowledgeable property adjuster to assist in dire times others are having.

    Sometimes we get so involved with making tons of money to support this cat habit, that we lose sight for the reason we are there. I prefer working cat claims and love the ability to be able to help in times of stress to the insured. I spend time with them before I begin the scoping process and try to explain as much to them as is possible and I actually listen to them. Janice, my wife and working partner has the same attitude. We all must make a good living doing this, due to the enormous expenses involved in this work.

    Empathy is a strong emotion that must be displayed in this business. Yes, I work for a living, yet I enjoy helping others that have lost much of what they have worked years for. Listening to your insured will give them confidence in you, regerdless of your knowledge. Hopefully we will see some work this year, as the past 17 months have been very sparse, even for local work.

     

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    cowboy26995
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    08/24/2007 2:09 PM
    Having worked all facets of this business from independent to staff to management to the restoration business and finally as a cat adjuster over a thirty four year period my greatest source of satisfaction has been the daily challenges and the interpersonal relationships we develop. Instiiling confidence in the insured in regards to your abilities goes a long way to ensuring a smooth claims resolution. Processes flow when there is a trust established, we all deal more readily with folks we like. Listen to the insured but also take charge of the process. Inform the insured of their policy benefits in regards to the damages sustained. Explain that they will be responsible along with you to bring their claim to a satisfactory conclusion. Be precise in your requirements. Leave the insured a list and follow up. Be available for their phone calls. It's amazing how quickly a file can go south if you do not return your phone calls. If you remember that we are SERVICE providers and treat everyone as though they were your first priority earning a good living is only a few steps away. You gotta know your stuff, bull------ only goes so far. Keep abreast of industry changes, continue your education, and listen.
    Marc Dubois
    Executive General Adjuster
    M.G.D. Claim Services Inc.
    "Your Commercial Claims Solution"
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    ranger
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    08/24/2007 5:08 PM
    I am an IA and I work daily claims for a few different companies Since the Texas HOB was done away with and replaced with the HOA my claim assignments were cut about 50%. I was assigned by a large vendor to work Ivan, Katrina and Wilma. There was no hurricane assignment last year and there is not a lot of activity at this time.

    There was mention of a staff adjuster making $50,000 a year. In addition to that there is a company car or car allowance, expense account, educational allowance, company paid adjusters license(s), major medical, life insurance, 401K, retirement and other benefits. The thought of becoming a staff adjuster again becomes appealing when there are no hurricanes.
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