Tags - Popular | FAQ  

PrevPrev Go to previous topic
NextNext Go to next topic
Last Post 02/11/2012 8:32 PM by  wscook
Basement floor drain overflows from seepage from foundation
 71 Replies
Sort:
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Page 1 of 41234 > >>
Author Messages
wangerin
Guest
Guest
Posts:34


--
01/22/2012 3:20 PM

    Insurance policy contains endorsement that provides $5,000 additional coverage for backup or overflow from system designed to remove seepage from foundation.

    There was seepage from foundation resulting in 18 inches of water standing in basement for 21 days.

    The basement had a floor drain that was designed to remove unwanted water from basement.

    Basement floor drain was not vented.

    Basement floor drain removed  seepage from the foundation slowly.

    Claim adjuster determined that loss resulting from water in basement was $4,300.

    Deductible was $250.

    Insurance company denied claim stating that drain was working during the 21 day period.

     

    Tags: Popular
    0
    stormcrow
    Member
    Member
    Posts:437


    --
    01/22/2012 11:37 PM
    Without the exact wording can not comment
    I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers.
    0
    swink_d
    Member
    Member
    Posts:96


    --
    01/23/2012 12:18 AM
    Seepage through the foundation?

    0
    claims_ray
    Member
    Member
    Posts:293


    --
    01/23/2012 12:12 PM
    The question is rigged. Give the wording from the policy. Include the part where ground water seepage is excluded.
    0
    CatAdjusterX
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:964


    --
    01/23/2012 5:04 PM
    Posted By walter wangerin, ea on 22 Jan 2012 03:20 PM

    Insurance policy contains endorsement that provides $5,000 additional coverage for backup or overflow from system designed to remove seepage from foundation.

    There was seepage from foundation resulting in 18 inches of water standing in basement for 21 days.

    The basement had a floor drain that was designed to remove unwanted water from basement.

    Basement floor drain was not vented.

    Basement floor drain removed  seepage from the foundation slowly.

    Claim adjuster determined that loss resulting from water in basement was $4,300.

    Deductible was $250.

    Insurance company denied claim stating that drain was working during the 21 day period.

     

    ..................................................................................................

    You sound like a PA not wanting to do your homework. Just sayin'

    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
    0
    Goldust
    Member
    Member
    Posts:306


    --
    01/24/2012 4:12 AM
    WHOA WHAT HAPPENED??
    JERRY TAYLOR
    0
    Goldust
    Member
    Member
    Posts:306


    --
    01/24/2012 4:13 AM
    This doesn't smell right. The system is not designed correctly and your insurance contract doesn't give all coverage or Exclusion information.
    Groundwater is not back up or overflow.Was there a Sump system?
    Back up from what? overflow from what ?
    JERRY TAYLOR
    0
    Goldust
    Member
    Member
    Posts:306


    --
    01/24/2012 4:13 AM
    This doesn't smell right. The system is not designed correctly and your insurance contract doesn't give all coverage or Exclusion information.
    Groundwater is not back up or overflow.Was there a Sump system?
    Back up from what? overflow from what ?
    JERRY TAYLOR
    0
    Goldust
    Member
    Member
    Posts:306


    --
    01/24/2012 4:13 AM
    This doesn't smell right.
    JERRY TAYLOR
    0
    Goldust
    Member
    Member
    Posts:306


    --
    01/24/2012 4:13 AM
    This doesn't smell right.
    JERRY TAYLOR
    0
    Goldust
    Member
    Member
    Posts:306


    --
    01/24/2012 4:13 AM
    This doesn't smell right. The system is not designed correctly and your insurance contract doesn't give all coverage or Exclusion information.
    Groundwater is not back up or overflow.Was there a Sump system?
    Back up from what? overflow from what ?
    JERRY TAYLOR
    0
    Goldust
    Member
    Member
    Posts:306


    --
    01/24/2012 4:13 AM
    This doesn't smell right. The system is not designed correctly and your insurance contract doesn't give all coverage or Exclusion information.
    Groundwater is not back up or overflow.Was there a Sump system?
    Back up from what? overflow from what ?
    JERRY TAYLOR
    0
    wangerin
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:34


    --
    01/24/2012 8:49 AM
    I am the insured.
    0
    wangerin
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:34


    --
    01/24/2012 9:03 AM

    The main policy excludes seepage from foundation.

    The additional backup of sewer endorsement (limited to $5,000) specifically includes coverage for overrflow from system designed to remove seepage from foundation.

    This was the third year that I owned the property and the first time that there was any seepage from the foundation.

    There was a floor drain in the basement. The water heater and other personal propety in the basement was elevated on pallets. This allowed the small basement area to act as a system to remove any seepage from the foundation. The house was 100 years old and the drain was installed without a vent. The lack of the vent resulted in the very slow drainage resulting in about 18 inches of water in basement for 21 days. The drain works great until it is overcome with water. It is similar to an unvented bathtub or holding your finger over a straw full of water. I did not know the plumbing was unvented, which probably resulted in the overflow.

    Aclaims adjuster determined there was $4,300 of damage as a result of water in the basement for the 21 days. The moisture moved thorugh the walls resulting in cracked stucco.

     

    0
    claims_ray
    Member
    Member
    Posts:293


    --
    01/24/2012 10:17 AM

    Give us a direct quote from your policy concerning your sump pump and drain endorsement.

    However I can tell you that the source of the water is the reason that it is excluded from coverage.

    The source of the water was due to seepage which is directly excluded in your policy.

    You would need a flood policy for any coverage for this type of loss.

     

     

    0
    wangerin
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:34


    --
    01/24/2012 11:37 AM

    The follwing coverages are amended or added:
    15. Back-up of sewer, drain or sump-pump. We will provide coverage, for up to $5,000 for directloss to Coverage A - Dwelling and coverage C - Personal Property caused by water which backs up through sewers or drains or water which enters into and overflows from within a sump pump, sump pump well or other type system designed to remove subsurface water which is drained from the foundation area. This coverage does not apply if the loss is caused by the insured's negligence. The greater or $250 or policy deductible applies. We will not pay for loss that results from sewer back-up of sump pump overflow that occurs within 10 days before or after "flood" on "residence premises."

    The denial letter states: "The Premier Endorsement does not apply due to the water entering the dwelling through the foundation and not as a result of a drain back-up. The drain worked during the 21 day period that the basement continually flooded."

    0
    Leland
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:741


    --
    01/24/2012 12:11 PM
    If the gentleman really has paid extra for an endosement that "specifically includes coverage for overrflow from system designed to remove seepage from foundation" then that endorsement would likely overide the seepage exclusion in the main policy form.

    I posted some case law on this issue in an older post. An insured had a policy that excluded "backup". But they paid extra for a flood damage endorsement. The flood damage was partly due to a drain backup. The insurance company tried to deny the flood claim even though the insured had paid extra for flood coverage. The insurance company pointed to the backup exclusion in the main form. The judge said no way, you can't sell somebody an endorsement that increases coverage, take their premium payments, and then use an exclusion in the main policy to deny the same coverage the insured is paying extra for. Obviously the endorsement overrides the main policy.

    To be precise, the gentleman is not claiming for seepage per se, he is claiming for water damage that occurred when the seepage wasn't pumped away. He claims he has an endorsement that covers that specfic scenario. I agree with the previous posters, he needs to show us the full wording of that endorsement.

    If what he says is true, it might be possible that the damage to the wall from seepage alone would be excluded, but the ensuing damage from standing water might be covered.

    There are so many unknowns here, obviously. Does his endorsement cover ANY failure of the sump pump, or just failures from certain perils?

    We can only make guesses. But I don't think it is right to say that all seepage would be excluded just because the main form says so. That's the whole point of an endorsement- I read lots of endorsements that even instruct the reader to "replace the wording", ie its basically telling you to delete a paragraph in the main policy and replace it with something else.

    Here are some examples:

    "Under 5. Cancellation item b. (3) is replaced by: ......."

    "The Section 1 - ADDITIONAL COVERAGE, Collapse is deleted and replaced with the following:....

    We need to see the actual policy and endorsements.

    0
    claims_ray
    Member
    Member
    Posts:293


    --
    01/24/2012 2:48 PM
    Ok.
    I will agree with you depending on the wording in the endorsement.
    0
    CatAdjusterX
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:964


    --
    01/24/2012 4:10 PM
    Posted By Montana Goldust on 24 Jan 2012 04:13 AM
    This doesn't smell right. The system is not designed correctly and your insurance contract doesn't give all coverage or Exclusion information.
    Groundwater is not back up or overflow.Was there a Sump system?
    Back up from what? overflow from what ?
    Whatcha tryin to say Jerry???????(x5) :-)

    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
    0
    wangerin
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:34


    --
    01/25/2012 8:40 AM

    The insurance is all coverage with exclusions plus an endorsement for systems designed to remove seepage from foundation.

    Seepage from the foudnation is excluded to the extent that it exceeds $5,000 coverage udner endorsement.

    The house is 100 years old.

    I owned the house for 3 years. It was the first time that the basement floor drain was used.

    I am not a plumber. I didn't know that the drain was not vented or that it needed to be vented.

    The backup sewer endorsement specifically states that overflow from systems designed to remove seepage from foundation is included for up to $5,000 of coverage.

    The house has a crawl space under half the house and basement under half the house. Everything in the basement was on pallets, apparently to keep it from coming into contact with seepage from the foundation. The basement had a floor drain. The basement kind of worked like a sump well (words used in endorsement as a system like).

    When the seepage from the foundation overwhelmed the drain, the drain overflowed because it was not vented.

    0
    You are not authorized to post a reply.
    Page 1 of 41234 > >>


    These Forums are dedicated to discussion of Claims Adjusting.

    For the benefit of the community and to protect the integrity of the ecosystem, please observe the following posting guidelines: 
    • No Advertising. 
    • No vendor trolling / poaching. If someone posts about a vendor issue, allow the vendor or others to respond. Any post that looks like trolling / poaching will be removed.
    • No Flaming or Trolling.
    • No Profanity, Racism, or Prejudice.
    • Terms of Use Apply

      Site Moderators have the final word on approving / removing a thread or post or comment.