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Last Post 02/09/2011 7:12 PM by  BeenThereDoneThat
How many Independent Adjusters out of work Today
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Goldust
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10/14/2010 9:35 AM
    Just curious,
    How many IA's are there out of work today who don't have other income to survive .
     How many total adjusters are there in the USA . Including Staff adjusters.?
       How many newbies still want to get into this stagnant business.
    JERRY TAYLOR
    Tags: On The Job
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    mtsuka73
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    10/14/2010 9:43 AM
    According to the October issue of Best's Review there are 43,900 adjusters in the U S A. Down 9.9% from the same time last year. Average weekly earnings are 917.38 up 4.7%.
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    Cat 5 Greedy
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    10/14/2010 9:47 AM
    I had the same theory about new adjusters a few years ago, there cant possibly be ones still around that started after 2005 and have not worked since. They have to be flushed out by now.

    I worked my butt off since 2005 trying to do other related work and stay afloat, I know I'm the exception.

    All I ask for is one, even minor storm to hit the U.S., Is that too much to ask for Hurricane gods??????

    I know I am on the top of the list for several vendors that I have done some grunt work for.
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    jdacree
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    10/14/2010 1:22 PM
    The answer to the above is a whole bunch.
    Jim Acree Stupidity is the art of not trying to learn Ignorance is the lack of opportunity to learn I am ignorant
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    CatAdjusterX
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    10/14/2010 2:46 PM
    Posted By Montana Goldust on 14 Oct 2010 09:35 AM
    Just curious,
    How many IA's are there out of work today who don't have other income to survive .
     How many total adjusters are there in the USA . Including Staff adjusters.?
       How many newbies still want to get into this stagnant business.

    Hi Jerry,

    I wrote on another thread that this season actually has a silver lining in that with all the hype and hoopla and expenses put forth to be ready to deploy this season will thin the herd of new adjusters wanting to get in the biz.

    It will separate the men from the boys so to speak and only those determined to do this will have the resolve to hang in there and keep training for either hail or next season.

    God help those kids that have no other job or worse quit their job to get trained as an adjuster.
    But this is how our industry is, we know to save for that rainy day because more often than not, that rainy day can last a few years !!

    Robby Robinson
    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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    ChuckDeaton
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    10/14/2010 6:56 PM
    Several years ago we checked on the number of licenses in Texas and if I remember correctly there were 39,000 recorded.
    "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt
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    brighton
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    10/14/2010 7:18 PM
    Jerry,

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers are listed below. This is the total number of licenses as of 2008. This includes all lines including heath insurance claims adjusters. The number is staggering.


    Claims adjusters, appraisers, examiners, and investigators
    13-1030 -
    2008 numbers = 306,300
    2018 projected = 327,200
    7 % change over 10 years = 20,900

    Claims adjusters, examiners, and investigators
    13-1031
    2008 numbers = 294,600
    2018 projected = 315,500

    Insurance appraisers, auto damage
    13-1032
    2008 = 11,700
    2018 projected = 11,700

    NOTE: Data in this table are rounded. See the discussion of the employment projections table in the Handbook introductory chapter on Occupational Information Included in the Handbook.

    If there are 39,000 in Texas alone, you can figure almost the same for FL so there is around 75,000 at least. I could not find any numbers breaking out the claims fields or any numbers on the TDI or FL Dept of Ins sites as to current numbers. Dept of Labor says the growth in the health field will be the way to go if you want a steady paycheck and benefits.

    It has been said for years. Cat work was considered the desert and day claims work was the main course. When I was staff, we all considered any storm work extra money and never counted on it as we never knew if there would be a storm that year. Doing independent work, I kept the same attitude. Day claims kept me alive and cat work helped build up the reserves. Looks like too many have been sold the bill of goods that storm work is always going to be there and they will have no problem getting called up.

    Rocke Baker
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    CatAdjusterX
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    10/14/2010 8:13 PM
    I read a thread on another site(not mine) that backed up Rocke's numbers and had another interesting statistic.

    With approx. 39,000 licensed independent adjusters in the state of Texas, there were less than 1,000 licensed Public adjusters.

    Now that was before Ike I think,
    so I would imagine there are closer to maybe 2,000 or so now.

    It would seem that the best way for a rookie to earn a paycheck would be as a licensed PA, less dogs fighting for the same bone.
    Yet if they do that , they will more often than not not be able to cross the road to the IA side.

    HMM.....................................


    Robby Robinson
    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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    jdacree
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    10/14/2010 10:29 PM
    From a comment by a friend of mine PA work can be good paying, BUT, take Molsen for example he may have called out or used a few PA's until he had enough case load wins to start getting settlements before having to go the investigation route. While 2000 or so PA's in Texas really does not sound like many, how many are really needed when something like Ike happens and all of the lawsuits are for the same basic reasons??
    Jim Acree Stupidity is the art of not trying to learn Ignorance is the lack of opportunity to learn I am ignorant
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    stormcrow
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    10/14/2010 11:52 PM
    If there are 39,000 adjusters in Florida also 35000 or more will be licenced in Texas also. No way to know how many different peope there are. How many of the Texas licences are held by local farmers who work hail once and a while. All we know is there are way to many. But think of it, 20,000 to 40,000 people sending $5000 each for courses. some vendors do not need a storm.
    I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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    CatAdjusterX
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    10/15/2010 7:06 PM
    Posted By jdacree on 14 Oct 2010 10:29 PM
    From a comment by a friend of mine PA work can be good paying, BUT, take Molsen for example he may have called out or used a few PA's until he had enough case load wins to start getting settlements before having to go the investigation route. While 2000 or so PA's in Texas really does not sound like many, how many are really needed when something like Ike happens and all of the lawsuits are for the same basic reasons??

    JDacree,

    My close friend from law school actually took on many claims from disgruntled insured's from Katrina/Rita and the process is almost point by point exactly how a PA would operate except as where a PA's role ends with mediation, the attorney can take the case to court through a lawsuit if mediation fails.

    I know quite a few IA's who consulted for plaintiff attorney's doing scopes of damages 

    An insured is in a  financially better position utilizing a PA over an attorney as PA's on average are limited to usually no more than 10% of any additional monies received on behalf of the insured and a PA can do the reinspection and appear on behalf of the insured at mediation, if they cannot receive additional monies at that point , the insured must hire an attorney if they want to go farther with the case and now they will be liable for up to 33 1/3 plus costs incurred unless negotiated downward.

    Some insureds hire an attorney from the moment they are not happy with what they have received from the carrier and an attorney can still earn 33 1/3 for nothing more than hiring a PA to do the reinspection and subsequent mediation if necessary without ever filing a lawsuit.

    A PA can do very well either soliciting individual insureds( they must wait X amount of days from the event before able to solicit) or working for attorneys.

    A PA can rep an insured without filing a lawsuit and therefore a class action has no real effect on a PA working and staying busy.

    This is not an endorsement for PA's or plaintiff attorneys, just a clarification


    Robby Robinson
    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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    CatAdjusterX
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    10/15/2010 7:13 PM
    Posted By stormcrow on 14 Oct 2010 11:52 PM
    If there are 39,000 adjusters in Florida also 35000 or more will be licenced in Texas also. No way to know how many different peope there are. How many of the Texas licences are held by local farmers who work hail once and a while. All we know is there are way to many. But think of it, 20,000 to 40,000 people sending $5000 each for courses. some vendors do not need a storm.
    I agree about some "vendors" who offer roster placement to graduates of their coursework will turn a tidy profit storm or no storm and would probably view an actual deployment as a negative thing.

    Robby Robinson

    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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    CatAdjusterX
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    10/15/2010 7:18 PM
    Posted By jdacree on 14 Oct 2010 10:29 PM
    From a comment by a friend of mine PA work can be good paying, BUT, take Molsen for example he may have called out or used a few PA's until he had enough case load wins to start getting settlements before having to go the investigation route. While 2000 or so PA's in Texas really does not sound like many, how many are really needed when something like Ike happens and all of the lawsuits are for the same basic reasons??


    *************************************************************************************************

    jdacree,
    You got it kinda backwards as through the investigation , many PA's or attorneys can and will settle a claim before they file a lawsuit, an ethical attorney who is not looking to blackmail a carrier will file a lawsuit only as a last resort and then only if they think they will prevail.Those who file blanket lawsuits from the onset are not attorneys, they are criminals with a J.D.(Juris Doctorate) and should be prosecuted and be stripped of their credentials!!

    Robby
    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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    Roy Estes
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    10/17/2010 3:42 PM
    Posted By ChuckDeaton on 14 Oct 2010 06:56 PM
    Several years ago we checked on the number of licenses in Texas and if I remember correctly there were 39,000 recorded.

    In Texas; if you can fog a Mirror you can get a license.
    "Each of us as human beings has a responsibility to reach out to help our brothers and sisters affected by disasters. One day it may be us or our loved ones needing someone to reach out and help." RC ESTES
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    jdacree
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    10/18/2010 5:30 PM
    Posted By jdacree on 14 Oct 2010 10:29 PM
    From a comment by a friend of mine PA work can be good paying, BUT, take Molsen for example he may have called out or used a few PA's until he had enough case load wins to start getting settlements before having to go the investigation route. While 2000 or so PA's in Texas really does not sound like many, how many are really needed when something like Ike happens and all of the lawsuits are for the same basic reasons??


    *************************************************************************************************

    jdacree,
    You got it kinda backwards as through the investigation , many PA's or attorneys can and will settle a claim before they file a lawsuit, an ethical attorney who is not looking to blackmail a carrier will file a lawsuit only as a last resort and then only if they think they will prevail.Those who file blanket lawsuits from the onset are not attorneys, they are criminals with a J.D.(Juris Doctorate) and should be prosecuted and be stripped of their credentials!!

    Robby




    Robby, you are more than likely right in your comment, but think of the following logic used by me in light of my comment about not needing a whole lot of PA’s. For the average homeowner that has never filed a claim on their homeowners insurance:

    1. the insured did not even know what an adjuster was until he filed his first claim, he thought his agent would validate the claim and write him a check. Also 90% of the insured’s that do know what an adjuster is do NOT know the difference between staff adjuster and an IA
    2. the insured, in most cases does not know what a PA is or what he does, if the insured is not satisfied with his claim settlement and after having discussed it with the carrier 1 out of 3 insured will call a lawyer (see 2 above). now if the insured is working with a contractor (hopefully reputable) that knows his stuff, the insured will be advised to ask for a re-inspect, citing some reason that he is not satisfied with the settlement (as a roof salesman most of my few re-inspects were from staff adjuster claim settlements, (adjusters that notably worked for the top 3 carriers listed with the most complaints by the Colorado DOI)
    3. if the lawyer is creditable he will investigate the claim, in many cases calling on a PA that he knows of, if he is not creditable he will just file a lawsuit resulting (he hopes) in a courthouse step settlement
    4. if the report from the PA substantiates that the damage is real and covered, he (the lawyer) will then do his thing with the insurance company, or file a lawsuit
    5. now to the basis of my comment, if this activity is pertaining to a geographic event (the recent hail/tornados in Arizona comes to mind) and the lawyer has done some number of these, is he going to call a PA for each of these or is he going to reference similar claims/photos that were settled and try for an out of court settlement???? Also lawyers are like a knitting club, ALL of them know when one of them has reached a “good settlement” and can research the case history. Those other lawyers (many of them ambulance chasers) will reference case history and hope to win without having to do any real investigation, other than a few photos and statements

    I followed this logic in my evaluation of becoming a PA, if getting that license would be preferable to working claims as an adjuster, and the supposed thought that crossing over to a PA position would restrict or eliminate my opportunity to work as an IA. My logic tells me (based on the above thought process) that if I wanted to be a PA, I can pretty well count out working as an IA for anyone, and that in a cat situation, the numbers of PA’s are miniscule to the number of IA’s deployed.

    Jim Acree Stupidity is the art of not trying to learn Ignorance is the lack of opportunity to learn I am ignorant
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    Alex_Chernov
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    11/26/2010 11:36 AM
    I am really wondering how many poor souls will be lost to the lull of 2010? :)
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    olderthendirt
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    11/26/2010 1:50 PM
    Most wantabes and a lot of the cat adjusters. I know of a number of real adjusters who have found work.
    Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it depends on what you put in it
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    Ray Hall
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    11/26/2010 3:36 PM

    It,s not the same to put cat. adjusters in the same sentance woth IA adjusters. Most IA firms are well established and the adjusters do not move about very often. Most of the work is from "overflow" that will take a good investigation or a long tail assignment or a simple "one shot".Many local IA firms see a large spike of new losses on wind or hail are some flood in a local area and just into the overtime mode and out of the 50 hour per week mode. Some traveling adjusters well known can get hooked up for a week or two. I do not think any owner of an IA firm would put on a "storm trooper" they have never seen. Too much liability and a risk of loosing old customers.

    After I passed 60 my days of working for a local IA's was over and when I passed 70 I was cooked with 95% of all claim departments.

     

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    Alex_Chernov
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    11/27/2010 9:56 AM
    I guess it is the survival of the fittest, I am going into hibernation mode right now, no more fancy restaurants and trips to California, but come big winter storm and the spring hail guess who is going to be in huge demand now that many CAT guys went somewhere else...
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    Ray Hall
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    11/27/2010 1:24 PM

    I think the vendor system is really like an open tryout for high school senior's who got a varsity jacket in sports. The pool is very full and some will work more than others in  in 2011. Good luck.

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