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Last Post 06/13/2011 6:26 AM by  catwoman
Eagle View Measurements
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ALANJ
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Posts:142


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04/09/2009 2:45 PM
Let me get this right. The eagle view measurements are more accurate than those of someone who climbed the roof and measured it?
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Will@EagleView
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Posts:3


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04/09/2009 6:43 PM
ALANJ,
 
I'm not saying we're more accurate than any single experienced roofer or adjuster who has mastered the art of measuring roofs. However, experience and "style" of measuring roofs among ajusters and roofers varies.
 
What I am willing to say is that if you had 10 roofers/adjusters seperately measure the same roof that the varience in measurements from highest to lowest would be somewhere in the ballpark of 8-12%.  If EagleView techs seperately measured the same roof 10 times the varience from highest to lowest measurement would be somewhere in the ball park of 2-4%.
 
Many trust our accuracy, and we're an unbiased 3rd party opinion. That's why our reports have the ability to end disputes between roofers and adjusters.
 
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Ol' Ghost
Member
Member
Posts:279


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04/09/2009 11:18 PM
Uhhh-Ohhh! What have we here? Is the brave new world technology revealing some inherent flaws in their justification for existing? First off, Bozo, roofers and adjusters will always, and I mean ALWAYS measure a roof differently. Why is that? Is it because of the greed and anti-greed factors each faction espouses? Of course. Is it because the carriers want it measured to the exact inch for ridge and rafter? Of course. Will roofers always round up to at least the next foot? It goes without saying. Is this where you get your 8-12% variance? If so, you have justifed your business model based on the inherent error of believing in the validity of the roofers psychology rather than the actual tape measured dimensions. Then to bray about your techs 2-4% varience as so much superior shows your argument to be hollow.

Next we have your admission the images you peddle are not current and will be 6 months to 2 years in age. From an historical perspective, that's nice. But, we ain't interested in the old days. We are concerned with the current construction when the loss occurred. And, how much do you charge for this dog & pony show? What with all the technology and overhead, it sure won't be as cheap as having the roof accessed, assessed, adjusted, and the settlement effectively sold on the spot to the Insured.

The Insured, why as the Insured been left out of the equation here. Don't they deserve some respect and accuracy from us? What is so wrong with doing them the job right? Yeah, I know, bend the nickle till the buffalo poops. I digress.

Folks, in my eyes, this whole deal is yet another twist on the old snake oil peddler from eons past. Roll the wagon into town, drop the sideboards, play the banjo, sing a little song, sell some bottles of Dr Feelgood's Miracle Snake Oil Elixir to the assembled crowd! Yes, a few in the crowd will be suckered into plunking down their silver dollars and later loudly testify to their neighbors how wonderful it is to be cured of the lumbago and the quivers. Or, so they preach out loud. After the hangover the next morning tho, the suckers quietly avoid social contact and hope the effects of tincture of iodine, coal tar, morphine and cocaine in that little bottle will pass without ill effects. So too, in these modern times, the carrier executives that swallow this pitch will soon have quietly moved on to yet another profit saving scheme and the left over trolls will have disposed of yet one more worthless saga in their companies history.

Snake Oil, it's all just Snake Oil.

Ol' Ghost
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okclarryd
Veteran Member
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Posts:954


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04/09/2009 11:28 PM
Ghost,

You may have overlooked the fact that the bean-counters are runnin' the show and, you may have mistaken them for someone that gives a rip about accuracy or making sure the insured is treated like one.

If it's cheaper, it's better.

The other side of the coin.................................these folks have done a remarkable marketing job and have millions of roofs in their archives.

Accurate?

IMHO, that remains to be seen.
Larry D Hardin
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Ol' Ghost
Member
Member
Posts:279


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04/10/2009 12:02 AM
That's right, Larry! Snake oil peddlers were always the best salesman and you can see their legacy in the infomercials on TV. Vince Offer doing Shamwow and the Slap Chopper. Billy Mays and all his spots. Ron Popiel and the Ronco products. All are inheritors of the marketing techniques of the Snake oil peddlers of the past. So too are we trying to sell our products and services to whomever our customer is. In this case the customer is the carriers executive claims honcho. He/She is on a tighter budget each year, who knows, these guys sound like they just invented the better mouse trap. Being human, he/she is drawn in to the sale by the power point with all it's pretty pictures and action figures and the ever present pitch, "WE CAN SAVE YOU MONEY!"

That is the 'hook'. Once that mental imagery is set in the brain, just as the banjo and song of the past did, the closing of the sale begins. In effect he says,  " Nothing up my sleeve, Presto!" The roof image is focused to the highest resolution and the magic wand calculates a figure, 34.67 squares! "As a new customer, we are offering a special discount for the premium service at the basic service rate for a 6 month subscription." The hook is set and the reel slowly pulls him/her into the 'sold' net.

That evening the honcho lies in bed thinking back on the day. "I bought something and I saved money, I wonder what my boss will say tomorrow?" Meanwhile the peddler sips his bonded bourbon thinking of the next pitch down the road, and giggles.

Ol' Ghost

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suzukini
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Posts:44


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04/10/2009 1:28 AM
Hi guys,
 
I usually just scan the forum and learn, but this topic does scare me a little.  I don't feel comfortable relying on someone (or something) else's measurements.  I am one that likes to be hands-on and get my own measurements.  Another point, if the Eagle View measurements are based on photos at least 6mos old, what happens when the insured has remodeled and/or added on.  Then the measurements will be wrong obviously.  I just don't like the idea of having this program do the work for me.  Just my 2 cents from Alabama.
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Ray Hall
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts:2443


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04/10/2009 12:49 PM
This argument is as hollow as the auto/casualty adjusters cry 50 years ago that you could not work a large liability loss from a desk. The measurements are acurate when the photo was taken. Embrace change people, thin the ranks and 10% will ALWAYS rise to the top and get their just fee's. Thanks for ranting this promotes FICUS TREE@
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RandyC
Member
Member
Posts:197


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04/20/2009 11:37 PM
In my decades of watching people resist change, I've seen some amusing things. Remember when the computer was going to replace paper? Look in your waste basket and your shredder, and know how wrong the soothsayers can be.

I remember when I shocked the home building industry in Plano, Texas, using plastic switch boxes rather than steel (circa 1968). The old carpenters would break those boxes to protest the new and unacceptable. Those old carpenters are gone now, but those boxes still hold receptacles safely today. (I'm not really that old; I've just been doing this since I was a baby!)

I used Eagle View once and found it to be  accurate.

Don't get too comfortable, Eagle View. Technology doesn't stop moving just because you've got a viable service and a contract with XM8. Assurecalc and others are doing amazing things. Real time satellite photos are just around the corner.

Randy Cox

If it doesn't fit...adjust it!
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Ed The Roofer
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Member
Posts:59


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04/21/2009 12:45 AM
Most of the vendors that provide these types of imagery and measurement services have been in contact with me and what I had predicted, the fees are coming down exponentially as more and more competition becomes available.
 
There are free sites and sites that allow you to get pretty close with a measuring tool or square footage line drawing tool too, so eventually all of the tweaks will be ironed out with this technology and it will become the fast and lazy method to measuring.
 
Here is a copy/paste from another forum that I participate in, called ContractorTalk.com
 
Ed
 
 
 
Copy/Paste
Some vendors have been much easier to deal with and that will be something to consider when I make my final analysis, which I must remind you all, will wind up being an evolving referral list, since this technology is becoming so prevalent and with more and more of them entering the field of competition, the price levels will automatically come down, as newer software tweaks are made to render the useage to becoming completely SAAS available, with no other human intervention from the company offering the product.

Some vendors of various other types of products that I have thoroughly tested and reported on have alerted me that their sales and recognition has risen dramatically, precisely due to the commentaries I have made and referred to them.

I forsee that someday soon, an organization that I know about, that is in the beta development stage, will have access to all of the proven products on the market, with substantial group discouts available, due to the sheer volume of appropriate demographically selected contractor candidates available to utilize the resources affiliated with the group.



Here are a few of the MANY services that I have handy to list here right now for others to compare also.

There are about 40-50 other sites that I did not list yet.

Does anyone have any sites to add to my list for any of the categories?

Ed



Sites That Offer A Paid Service:

https://www.roofers411.com/

http://www.precigeo.com/Roof/Pricing/tabid/984/Default.aspx

http://www.geoestimator.com/

http://www.skytekimaging.com/

http://skyscopeusa.com/ website not up right now.
Now it is: http://skyscopeinternational.com/ Registered 2-10-09

http://www.eagleview.com/

http://www.pictometry.com/about_us/faqs.shtml

https://www.terraserver.com/purchases/subscribe_new.asp

http://www.mapcruzin.com/satellite-aerial-photos-maps/

http://www.assurecalc.com/



Free Ones To Calculate For Yourself:

http://maps.live.com/

http://vn4.cs.fiu.edu/cgi-bin/tflaunch.cgi?

http://atlas.freshlogicstudios.com/

http://earth.google.com/enterprise/earth_pro.html


Sites with relevant information about the technology:

http://www.terraserver.com/view.asp?cx=393387.601994363&cy=4662385.93618971&proj=32616&mpp=0.75&pic=-1&prov=-1&stac=-1&styp=AD

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=free+accurate+satellite+and+aerial+images

http://www.professionalroofing.net/images/0808_38-45.pdf

http://www.rooflogic.com/Pages/Products/Satellite/Default.aspx

http://imageatlas.digitalglobe.com/ia-webapp/

http://www.usgsquads.com/

http://www.geodetic.com/products.htm

http://www.geodetic.com/Whatis.htm

http://www.jesseshunting.com/site/aerial.html

http://www.landsat.com/aerial.html
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Ray Hall
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts:2443


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04/21/2009 11:42 AM
Can any person in the insurance or roofing industry dispute my opinion on measurements of roofs for insurance replacement as not being accurate enough to settle a large volume of claims, without shorting the homeowner or the contractor.
 
All ways draw a diagram of squares or rectangles and then add 10% for cut up and waste for a gable roof and 15% for a hip roof..... I have over 40 years experience of adjusting roof losses for insurance carriers.
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timsethna
Guest
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Posts:2


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04/22/2009 9:18 PM

Posted By Tim_Johnson on 16 Aug 2008 07:33 AM
Travelers is letting their staff use this sytem on steep / high roofs. They do require the adjuster to go out and do a footprint measurement.

Hey Tim, It will give you the pitch as well. Our company does about 100 to 130 roofs per month and we use Eagleview on a regular basis. Of course you do have to make sure you have the right house but we never have a problem. The one thing you want to keep in mind as adjusters is this: If part of a tree, even a limb, it can throw the measurement off and second, it takes a couple of days to get the report back so if your adjusting a house you have to wait to finish your claim unless you pay extra for the rush. In my opinion its better to just get up there and measure it by hand. Now if its a 12/12 2 story I myself opt for the EV. No roof is worth a life and plus the medical bill is a hell of alot higher then 50 bucks!

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timsethna
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Guest
Posts:2


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04/22/2009 9:22 PM
Posted By timsethna on 22 Apr 2009 09:18 PM

Posted By Tim_Johnson on 16 Aug 2008 07:33 AM
Travelers is letting their staff use this sytem on steep / high roofs. They do require the adjuster to go out and do a footprint measurement.

Hey Tim, It will give you the pitch as well. Our company does about 100 to 130 roofs per month and we use Eagleview on a regular basis. Of course you do have to make sure you have the right house but we never have a problem. The one thing you want to keep in mind as adjusters is this: If part of a tree, even a limb, it can throw the measurement off and second, it takes a couple of days to get the report back so if your adjusting a house you have to wait to finish your claim unless you pay extra for the rush. In my opinion its better to just get up there and measure it by hand. Now if its a 12/12 2 story I myself opt for the EV. No roof is worth a life and plus the medical bill is a hell of alot higher then 50 bucks!



Im with you Ray, we figure 10% on gable and 15% on hip roofs. It seems though every ins company is different. I know Allstate has been using 8% across the board here in NC but they will figure for dump fees and other small things. It at least gets you to about 200 to 220 a square which is ok.
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JohnDoeRoofingGuy
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Posts:1


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02/17/2011 10:23 PM

I've used Eagle View quite a few times for steep & complex but for up & over it's easier and hella-cheaper to do it yourself.  As far as everyone talking about satellite they do NOT use satellite pics to measure they use a service called pictometry that does flyovers of areas from low flying airplanes.  The pictometry group gives them high resolution images (I think Eagle View uses the 6" or 4" - good enough to see shingle outlines but not make out material though I hear that's available soon?).  I saw a sample once of what theyll be offering: you could see the soccer ball in the back yard.  Pretty frikin scary.

Yeah their regular turn is 2 days but like someone said you can pay extra $$$$$ and get it in 3 hours and theyre open 7days.  I know I sound like a commercial but after first having this hate relationship withem after allstate and farmers crunched my estimates I've grown to like them.  Yes you definitely gitta make sure they measure the right house.  Their techs are pretty knowledgable to deal with but their regular customer service folks are kinda lame and need to learn more.  I got transferred to their corporate reps once by accident and he was awesome.  THey use geocoding for everything and it's not 100% accurate here in USA so you gotta always make sure.  I had one measured once that was 10 blocks away.  Looked correct on google maps and their online thing (which uses google & bing) but they use government geocodes NOT addresses.  THey fixed it though within a few hours.

Am I a fan?  Not really but if I have to go up on a complex 10/12 in springtime in OK City Ima just gunna call these guys.  They include a waste chart too. Ive been doing this for 25 years and never had anything come back except when the adjuster had their report.  each time i battled a bit but yes it turned out I was wrong (on all but ONE) so yeah I kinda hate them for that.  If your in a city or high population area theyll prob have pics for the house.  But if your in the country I say forget 'em.  Less than 9 or 10/12 forget 'em.  MOre than 10/12 its easier to use them.

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CatLossMan
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06/06/2011 3:51 PM
We were using them in Knoxville last month writing Hartford. They were about a week out. We still had to mark a test square, use a pitch gauge and a Haag thickness gauge. Rumor has it that when 27.3 rolls out when you get an assignment it will come with an eagle view, skytek or geo-estimator report. You still have to verify damage, pitch and thickness. For $30.00 you can't beat the service.
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catwoman
Member
Member
Posts:47


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06/13/2011 6:26 AM
Wrong house. Incorrect measurements, we have seen it happen quite a lot here in Ohio. All technology is great...when it works. Don't you just hate when you are at a store and the power goes out and they won’t sell you anything, because the cashier can't add or count change? Technology does boost production, but it's “dumbing” us down.
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