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Last Post 11/03/2008 3:10 PM by  Angus99
A liability or?????
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MJW
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09/11/2008 8:57 PM

    Asking the adjusters here. We have had some cancellations to meet with us on jobs because it was raining or the roof is wet. Adjusters say they cannot see hail if the roof is wet....They say it would not be fair to the homeowner to come out if the roof is wet.... Can this be true (I haven't had a problem seeing hail on a wet roof)? Is it a liability of the adjuster's insurance? Do they just not want to go out in the rain?

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    okclarryd
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    09/11/2008 10:32 PM

     

    Joe,

    If you can see hail damage on a wet wood roof, a wet 3-tab roof, a wet 30 year dimensional roof, a wet anykindof roof, you are a far better roof monkey than me.

    But, then..................I've only been doing this for about 30 some years, so, what do I know?

    Larry D Hardin
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    HuskerCat
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    09/11/2008 11:35 PM

    Can you see it on a wet roof?  Maybe yes maybe no, depending on the color of the shingles and the size of the hail.  If it was your quarter sized/less hail, sometimes on those dark shingles you can't even see it on a dry day...requires the thumb test along with 20/20 to find it some times.  If it's a wood roof, even the lightest of drizzle won't find me on it because there is that very good chance of taking a quick ride off of it.  I think it comes down, Joe, to an adjuser having a certain amt of scheduled inspections on a day & not really knowing what kind of roof it may be.  If it's wet outside and the inspections might be compromised by weather, he/she's better off to stay in & catch up on the other stuff.  No different than the contractor doing his sales calls/ordering, etc., on the drizzly days instead of R&R'g a roof.  

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    StormSupport
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    09/12/2008 9:32 AM

    Mr. Woolhouse,

    It seems to me that in several of your posts you seem to have negative things to say regarding adjusters.  It seems that you're seeking to find a chink in the armor of the adjusters at large.  I'm not quite sure the reason for this particular question, because it seems reasonable and fair not to have anyone, adjuster, roofer, or superman, up on a wet roof, or for that matter, doing inspections in the rain. 

    Trying to understand the purpose of the question in the first place.

    Is this or any other job worth taking chances with someone's life?  This is not a job that requires life saving efforts, or heroic efforts that put someone in danger of risking life and limb.  Suppose, if you will, that after a storm there are live wires on the ground and an adjuster (or contractor) doesn't take precautions gets electrocuted because they insist on inspecting in the rain.  Or suppose, if you will, that a contractor who is bound to show the world that they are better than all the rest because they aren't 'scared to get wet' and insists that someone meet them to inspect a roof in the rain, only to slip and slide on the slick shingles to the ground below. 

    What exactly is your point here?  That you'll walk on a wet roof?  Be my guest, if you so choose, but please don't suggest that any adjuster,  or other person is less than dedicated because they aren't willing to put their life on the line for a roof inspection.   Safety is always FIRST.  

    To suggest that an adjuster "doesn't want to go out in the rain" or imply that they aren't dedicated or ready to do their job because they canceled an appointment due to rain is irresponsible and suggests that you have some ax to grind with adjusters.  I certainly hope that's not the case, because in the end, we're all on the same team, which is working toward the goal of indemnifying the insured. 

    Good day to you Sir.

    Do the right thing, ALWAYS
    ~Meg~
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    Ray Hall
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    09/12/2008 9:48 AM

    Mt. Woolhouse why dont you stop doing insurance roof jobs. Your post indicate you are not knowledgable about hail damage if you say you can see bruises  on roof surfaces in the rain. If ,you ever had any credibility with adjusters its all washed away.

     

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    Tom Toll
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    09/12/2008 11:29 AM

    Joe, the only time I have ever fallen from a roof was a wet one in Houston during hurricane Alecia in 1982. I allowed a moronic Doctor who was pressed for time insist I get on the wet roof in drizzle. It was only a 5/12 pitch, but had moss on it. I accept the fact that I allowed that moron to talk me into it, but never again. WET ROOF ARE DANGEROUS. IT IS DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE, IF AT ALL, HAIL DAMAGE ON A WET ROOF. Get my drift, sir.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    Roy Estes
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    09/12/2008 7:39 PM

    in 1992, I fell of of a wet roof, because I was about the Money. Busted my Wrist and shattered it, And put a Big ol goosegg on my forehead as a result. Cost me Allot more than the $450.00 or so I was making on that roof, As I was out for like a week or so and even when I went back I hired a roofer to be my roof monkey.

    I cannot think of anything more important than safety. Dont be as dumb as I was then! Not worth it! Wait, catch up on your paperwork, or whatever! SAFETY IS #1     Jst Sayin!  

    "Each of us as human beings has a responsibility to reach out to help our brothers and sisters affected by disasters. One day it may be us or our loved ones needing someone to reach out and help." RC ESTES
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    okclarryd
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    09/12/2008 10:33 PM

    Hello!!

    Joe!!

    You there, Joe??

    I think he fell off a wet roof.........................

    Hello, Joe!!

    Somebody call his cell.....................

    Larry D Hardin
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    HuskerCat
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    09/12/2008 10:55 PM

    What call center you workin' in, Larry?   I'd like to join up with my patched 5-buckle overshoes, one pant leg in & one out.  Every Cat office needs that personal touch now & then to keep up the morale after the long hours.  Maybe we could trade somtimes, and each just wear the lefts or the rights at the same time.  I'm about a size 12 on the overshoes, unless barefooot...then about a 10.    

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    MJW
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    09/12/2008 10:58 PM
    WOW!!!! Every post I make, you guys take offense. I hope you don't get yelled at all day.

    OK, this job has hail damage on steel siding. It has hail big enough to dent through the shingle and dent the drip edge underneath. The adjuster came out the first time and met with the homeowner. Gave him the siding, but not the roof. On top of that, the adjuster said it was vinyl siding and wrote it up as so. We pick rain days to meet adjusters. The rest of the days we are WORKING!

    I didn't intend any offense on anyone here. I ask for simple answers.

    It was not raining. It rained in the morning a bit. It was a 4/12 rambler.

    I have done plenty of insurance work, and I wonder how some of these adjusters keep their jobs with some of the things they pull. I will say, most of them are great. Very nice, polite people, who do their job and do it well. I don't have much to post or gripe about if everything is honky dory, right?? I am asking here because I think there are true professionals here. Thanks for the answers, but no thanks again for the ridicule.
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    HuskerCat
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    09/12/2008 11:16 PM

    Au contrair, Joe....nobody is out to pick on you if you give us the straight facts.  Everyone here has given you their honest opinion.   Unfortunately, you may have had a couple of bad experiences as described on your last post.  And like all have said, a wet roof can be a disabling roof.  In times of heavy claim load, an adjuster's best friend can be a rainy day.  Sometimes it's nice to just be able to do the reporting/estimates/paperwork during daylight hours instead of between 8pm & 2am.

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    sbeau4014
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    09/13/2008 8:25 AM

    Joe, as you said, you spend the rainy days meeting with adjusters on the roofs and clear days doing work on roofs. Most adjusters spend the clear days doing roof inspections, when it is safe, and rainy days doing the catch-up on the mountains of paperwork required. Your original post reads "Asking the adjusters here. We have had some cancellations to meet with us on jobs because it was raining or the roof is wet."  I took that statement to tell me it was raining at the time the inspection was to take place or the roof was wet.  For me personally, safety is the most important thing and I will not go on a roof that is wet. Never gone off of one except by the same way I got on it and don't plan to now. Seeing the hail damage is also a big concern to a certain degree as lets say you get a very light sprinkle on a light grey colored roof that has big drops of rain. Until that roof is saturated, each drop of that rain is going to resemble a hail bruise. When you inquired if it is a liability to the carrier for adjusters to climb the roof, the nswer wouldbe probably so. The adjuster falls off of the roof due to the slickness, the carrier could end up being responsible for his/her injuries, and if they took out an elaborate cloth awning that they had over their patio on the way down, the carrier or adjuster are buying the policyholder an awning also.
    I found very few adjsters that climb roofs in the rain or that are wet, but in the same breath I say the same has held true for roofers. Most of them I've dealt with will chose to climb a dry roof over a wet one.

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    okclarryd
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    09/13/2008 10:23 PM

    Mike,

    I'm working in Grand Prairie.  I couldn't find both of my galoshes so I borrowed one from my son-in-law.  I've been wearing two lefts and I don't think anyone has noticed.  I didn't notice myself for a week.

    I do get some comments about my vinyl bow tie that I stole from a Texaco station guy some years back, though.

    Larry D Hardin
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    sbeau4014
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    09/13/2008 10:29 PM
    Larry, I have argued with so many people in the past about this subject, but I now must agree with them....you are really one strange buckaroo. Keep it up.
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    Roy Estes
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    09/14/2008 1:48 AM
    Posted By Joe Woolhouse on 09/12/2008 10:58 PM
    WOW!!!! Every post I make, you guys take offense. I hope you don't get yelled at all day.

    OK, this job has hail damage on steel siding. It has hail big enough to dent through the shingle and dent the drip edge underneath. The adjuster came out the first time and met with the homeowner. Gave him the siding, but not the roof. On top of that, the adjuster said it was vinyl siding and wrote it up as so. We pick rain days to meet adjusters. The rest of the days we are WORKING!

    I didn't intend any offense on anyone here. I ask for simple answers.

    It was not raining. It rained in the morning a bit. It was a 4/12 rambler.

    I have done plenty of insurance work, and I wonder how some of these adjusters keep their jobs with some of the things they pull. I will say, most of them are great. Very nice, polite people, who do their job and do it well. I don't have much to post or gripe about if everything is honky dory, right?? I am asking here because I think there are true professionals here. Thanks for the answers, but no thanks again for the ridicule.

    Hmmm, Joe if you have done plenty insurance work, well then you should know how to handle this situation, why ask? LOL

     

    "Each of us as human beings has a responsibility to reach out to help our brothers and sisters affected by disasters. One day it may be us or our loved ones needing someone to reach out and help." RC ESTES
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    MJW
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    09/16/2008 9:13 PM
    It did get handled today. Turns out the first adjuster sent out never seen hail damage on shingles before, so he denied the claim on the roof. Why he was even sent out, I have no idea. The claim is now in the process and will pay current prices. Wow, these materials are killing everyone. Thanks for the constructive criticism and help.

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    jmckay
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    09/29/2008 5:07 PM
    Joe,

    I have been primarily on the 'contractor' side of the fence since I was 14 and have inspected thousands of roofs, both commercial and residential. I started doing hail/wind work as a primary part of our business several years ago, and hence have met with hundreds of insurance adjusters. As the very high majority of those meetings have been very professional, pleasant, and fair, I have of course disagreed at times. I have found that if you call a spade a spade and write up what is there, then you generally won't have any problems. In the handful of times that I have disasgreed with an adjuster (primarily low slope commercial), we have either explained our side of the story with as much fact and documentation as possible, or agreed to have a disinterested third party engineer or 'expert' take a look and offer his findings. The insured always has the opportunity to move the claim into appraisal which offers both sides to present their case to a nonpartisan third party. This usually results in a very fair and agreeable outcome. Not always...but more far more times than not, which means the system as a whole works.

    There have and always will be times that an inexperienced adjuster, or roofer, will try to make a silk purse out of a hog's ear. One side by denying the claim, or the other by writing up an estimate in the millions for a 25 sq three tab with two tabs blown back. Keep in mind out of the hundreds of thousands of claims that are filed every year, the higher percentage are handled professionally by both contractor and adjuster and everyone keeps working. I did learn a long time ago, that if you are a contractor...the quickest way to upset an adjuster is to climb on the roof and assume you know more than they do. They have a job to do as well, and most do it very well. I have a large handful of adjusters that contact me on a regular basis for my insight or experience in the construction trades because I have earned a reputation of calling it like I see it. I am the type of contractor that if there is a question of wet insulation behind a paneling wall from a vaulted panel/batton mobile home ceiling that appeared to have water infiltrate from the roof...it is quite easy in most situations to remove a piece of paneling as the contractor to verify and provide as documentation than to assume and add an extra $10,000.00 to the estimate based on information that you don't know is correct. If you are assisting an insured as a contractor, your obligation is to put them back into a pre-loss condition through your experience at your trade and your professionalism in dealing with the insured's adjsuter if they ask you to...not making commments like "let's see how much we can get, and if it's enough I can go ahead and paint your garage". If I had a nickel every time I have said that 'contractor's have worked very hard to earn their bad reputation' I would be ordering drinks at the once 'Ocean Grill' in Galveston instead of walking through mud inspecting my client's buildings.

    I realize as a contractor I am most likely in the minority in my views, but I have always stayed busy, made very good money, and seem to have repeat phone calls from adjusters who have enjoyed working with us (which has turned into some very nice lead ins on huge projects). Concerntrate on the amount of good contractors and good adjusters and realize that there are minority levels of inexperience on both sides that cause us all to genralize our views.

    Just my thoughts.
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    okclarryd
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    09/29/2008 10:05 PM

    Good post, Jett.

    I look forward to working with you some day.

    It is what it is and we owe what we owe.

    .................................Maybe.

    Larry D Hardin
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    Angus99
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    11/03/2008 3:10 PM
    Joe, adjusters have to Verify damage not assume it.  Just because siding shows signs of hail damage dioes not mean the roof also has damage.  I will never walk a wet roof regardless if it stopped raining hours before.  Wet roofs remain wet.
     
     
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