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Last Post 08/24/2008 11:51 PM by  rbryanhines
TS Fay
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Tom Toll
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08/18/2008 3:01 PM

    I don't believe, after looking at all weather information available, including my airmans weather information, that Fay is going to do much damage. It is just not going to develop into much of a hurricane, if at all. Citizens is attempting to deploy a number of desk adjusters and field teams, prematurely I think. I just hope they are going to pay all the feet on the ground if this does not amount to much. I don't think this will amount to much.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    Tim_Johnson
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    08/18/2008 3:04 PM
    It looks like a rain event. I just flipped on TWC and it looks like the "eye" has cleared Key West, no damage. Tourists are being invited back.
    Tim Johnson
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    rbryanhines
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    08/19/2008 7:16 PM
    looks like fay had sustained winds of 65 and gusts to 70 and has not dies down. given the are it went over it seems this should at least a bunch of small claims . we shall see.
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    Tom Toll
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    08/19/2008 7:55 PM

    I have never seen a TS intensify over land to become a hurricane, but Fay is on her way to doing just that. If it continues on the track they have predicted, it will hit very near Jacksonville at 75 to 93 MPH, a cat 2. Mother nature is sure full of surprises.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    Virginia Topley
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    08/20/2008 10:44 AM

    Some IA firms started contacting adjusters on Monday to arrive Wednesday and Thursday for orientation, before Fay even made land fall! Go figure. Central Florida, from Fort Myers to northeast  of Lake Okeechobee is primarily sugar cane fields with tons of mobile homes around Clewiston, Belle Glades, Pohokee and surrounding areas- great place; you'd better be packing a 9mm.  I hope adjusters who have travelled 1-2 days to get to these orientations have not done so in vain.

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    Tom Toll
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    08/20/2008 12:44 PM

    I fear that many adjusters who have been called to Florida for this Fay event, will be heading home shortly, with many dollars less in their bank account. Citizens was premature to call as many vendors and insist that adjusters hit the ground for an event that had not completely developed. I guess you could consider this a practice run, but can we, as adjusters, practice without payment. Of course we cannot. As I  have said in previous posts, I will not work Citizens claims, as they could care less about us, as adjusters. Is citizens going to pay for all those shoes on the ground, waiting for claims to come in. I hope so, but I seriously doubt.

    One thing I like about Cunningham Lindsey, they try not to deploy adjusters until some real work is available. Unfortunatley, if Citizens says FROG, all vendors must JUMP. I am not a frog.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    Medulus
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    08/20/2008 2:48 PM
    My thiniking on this is the opposite of yours, Tom. I agree that this is not a major event, nor is it even a hurricane. However, the following factors may lead to a large number of claims being filed:

    1. It's Florida.

    2. Most of the state is included in the zone crossed by this storm.

    3. Some of the less scrupulous people who did not repair their Wilma damage because it was under the deductible will be looking to cover wind damage from this loss with the old Wilma damage and pay only one deductible.

    4. There are a number of very aggressive and starving PAs in Florida who for the last two years haven't had a hurricane from which to profit.

    And .....

    5. It's Florida.
    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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    sbeau4014
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    08/20/2008 5:33 PM
    And Steve, don't forget four other major items that will generate #'s

    1. It is a slow moving tropical storm that is dumping a ton of rain just like Allison did in 6-01 in Houston which was the worst flooding in the country's history until Katrina

    2 Policyholders there pay huge premiums, generally hate the insurance industry for insurance costs, and i'd guess that any chance they get to file a claim they will.

    3. I believe the named storm deductible they have in Florida is a annual deductible vs a per occurance, so any policyholder would be smart to turn in any damages, even if less then the deductible as it will be added onto any future damages

    4. It's Florida!
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    rbryanhines
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    08/20/2008 8:58 PM
    reports of 8000 houses flooded in port st lucie
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    rbryanhines
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    08/20/2008 9:03 PM
    I meant st lucie county. I can't seem to edit my previous post
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    MalviLennon
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    08/20/2008 9:21 PM

    I looked at the last update, Fay is re-gaining strength, and the pressure dropped again. So, I am still keeping my fingers crossed.

    Malvi

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    rbryanhines
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    08/21/2008 11:34 AM
    Fox news reporting fema has confirmed 1000 homes flooded in st lucie county but the are still investigating and the number may rise.
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    rbryanhines
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    08/21/2008 5:34 PM
    Cado article states less than 30% of homeowners in the flood area have flood insurance. Surrounded by water and in the middle of yearly hurricanes and no flood coverage . Seems odd! I would think the home lender would require it but then again these are the same lenders that handed out loans to people without jobs!
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    sbeau4014
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    08/21/2008 7:56 PM

    Hell, who needs to spend the money and time to get flood insurance when the gov't will bail out the idiots that live in flood prone areas and decided not to buy it. What is really sad is there will be those in those numbers that did this dance with Uncle Sam before and will do it again in the future. It is really unfair to those who bought flood insurance for their property. What I love the most is the fool that gets out there and claims to have no knowledge that his/her homeowners policy doesn't cover flood. I'd love to see the gov't take out a lien on every piece of property that they come in and bail out the owner, and that owner either pays it back like a mortgage or when they sell the house the gov't gets their cut 1st. Bet you would see a huge rise in the #'s of people that buy flood cover.

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    cowboy26995
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    08/22/2008 8:50 AM
    Just a note to remind everyone that as Fay was a TS and not a Hurricane and never designated as such that regular deductibles will apply to losses incurred.
    Marc Dubois
    Executive General Adjuster
    M.G.D. Claim Services Inc.
    "Your Commercial Claims Solution"
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    sbeau4014
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    08/22/2008 9:33 AM
    Never worked in Fl myself and didn't know if they had a "hurricane" deductible there or a "named storm" deductible. I've seen both types before so I was unsure what they carried. I thought i remembered that after the storms of 04 and 05, their wonderful Govenor and Ins Commish pushed the per season deductible issue for whatever they do have, if it is a hurricane deductible.
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    MalviLennon
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    08/22/2008 10:35 AM

    Marc:

    Not sure, I agree with your opinion. The National Hurricane Center had "hurricane" watches and warnings posted all up and down the west coast of Florida. While it is true that Fay never got to actual hurricane status it came close enough for officials to issue the warnings. So, the matter of “the regular deductible applies” your opinion, or is this stated somewhere?

    Malvi  

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    sbeau4014
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    08/22/2008 12:48 PM
    Malvi,
    Some info from the Fla ins dept website is below and the link to cut and paste is at the end. Fl does have the hurricane deductible like Marc referenced vs the named storm deductible. Read the info below to form your own conclusion on it.

    Deductible is Triggered by Losses from a Hurricane System
    Originally, Florida's percentage deductibles applied to any windstorm loss - tornado, thunderstorm, tropical storm, hurricane. The 1997 Legislature, with the industry's support, agreed in the mid-1990's to limit percentage deductibles to hurricane losses. Current Florida law on percentage deductibles (Section 627.701, F.S., 1997) was patterned after Hawaii's percentage hurricane deductible, the only law in effect at the time. The Florida Insurance Council believes the statute is clear as currently worded. However, FIC has supported efforts over the past several years to make it even clearer.

    There was some confusion over application of the hurricane deductible following Hurricane Irene, which came ashore October 15-16, 1999, in Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties. Irene caused $100 million in wind damage and $100 million in flooding losses. Some south Florida homeowners complained because the hurricane deductible was applied even though it was never clear Irene produced hurricane-force winds over the Florida mainland.

    Common misconceptions include:

    The hurricane deductible is triggered by a hurricane watch or warning from the National Hurricane Center, allowing insurers to impose it regardless of whether hurricane-force winds ever hit the state.
    Once the hurricane deductible is triggered, it can be applied anywhere in Florida, even for an unrelated weather event hundreds of miles away. Section 627.4025, Florida Statutes, provides that application of percentage hurricane deductibles is triggered not by a watch or warning, but by windstorm losses resulting from "a storm system that has been declared to be a hurricane by the National Hurricane Center of the National Weather Service." The deductible was appropriate for Irene claims because the Irene system had been declared a hurricane, regardless of whether hurricane-force winds occurred over mainland Florida.
    As the Senate Banking and Insurance Committee noted in its September 1999 study, "on a case by case basis, it may be difficult to determine whether a windstorm loss in a particular county or area was caused by or resulting from a hurricane particularly if the wind speed is below hurricane force winds (which is very difficult to determine) and is geographically distant from the center of the storm system." The key is that the system had been declared a hurricane at some point and that the losses resulted from that system, the standards established by Hawaii.

    Section 627.4025 restricts the duration of the insurance industry's application of the percentage deductible. The hurricane deductible can be imposed beginning "at the time a hurricane watch or warning is issued for any part of Florida," continuing "for the time period during which the hurricane conditions exist anywhere in Florida" and ending 72 hours following the termination of the last hurricane watch or warning."

    A hurricane watch or warning does not authorize use of the percentage deductible, but defines when use of the percentage deductible can begin and when it must end - to the benefit of consumers. An insurer could not impose the deductible on damage to a home from a sudden severe thunderstorm when a hurricane system is still hundreds of miles and several days from Florida because a watch or warning would not have been issued. Carriers must stop imposing the percentage deductible 72 hours after termination of the last watch or warning, so damages from severe thunderstorms which often occur a week or more after a hurricane would be subject to the general deductible.

    Requiring Residential Policies to Provide Annual Hurricane Deductibles


    The 2004 law, which applies to residential property insurance policies issued or after May 1, 2005, required that the hurricane deductible be applied on an annual basis to all hurricanes that occur during the calendar year, rather than to each hurricane. For example, if a home is insured for $200,000 and has a 2 percent hurricane deductible, which is a $4,000 hurricane deductible; it would apply to all hurricane losses for the year, rather than to each hurricane loss. However, insurers may apply the “other perils” deductible, which is typically $500, or the remaining amount of the hurricane deductible, whichever is greater, to a loss for a second hurricane and each subsequent hurricane that year.

    This requirement applies to hurricane losses covered under one or more policies in effect during the same calendar year that are issued by the same insurer or an insurer in the same insurer group. For example, if a policyholder has a hurricane loss in August and renews the policy in September, the hurricane deductible would apply to the August loss and to any additional hurricane losses that occur through the end of December.

    The new law effectively requires insurers and policyholders to keep track of hurricane losses that occur, even if they are under the deductible. Insurers are allowed to require policyholders to report claims below their deductible and to maintain records or receipts in order to apply the loss to a subsequent hurricane.

    If a policyholder has a hurricane loss and then changes the hurricane deductible, the highest deductible applies. If a policyholder has a hurricane loss and then lowers their deductible, the insurer must notify the policyholder in writing that the lower deductible amount does not apply until January 1 of the following year.

    If someone has a hurricane deductible endorsement, it might be nice to post it here for all to read the actual language.



    http://www.flains.org/content/view/257/38/
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    Tom Toll
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    08/22/2008 2:10 PM

    A tropical storm is a intensified low pressure system over warm waters that has maximum sustained wind speeds ranging from 39 - 73 mph.

    A hurricane is an intensified tropical storm with maximum sustained wind speeds at least 74 mph. They are much powerful than tropical storms, not only because their wind speeds are greater, but also because the storm surge is more powerful and there are greater rainfall intensities.

    Both of these start off as a tropical depression. They are both fueled by heat and moisture. Moving over land and/or into cold waters will weaken the system. TS Fay is exactly that, a tropical storm. Hurricane deductibles cannot be applied until the TS is declared a Hurricane with wind speeds in excess of 74 MPH.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    jlombardo
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    08/22/2008 3:27 PM

    POLICY NUMBER: HOMEOWNERS
    HO 03 51 05 05


    THIS ENDORSEMENT CHANGES THE POLICY. PLEASE READ IT CAREFULLY.
    HO 03 51 05 05 © ISO Properties, Inc., 2005 Page 1 of 2


    CALENDAR YEAR HURRICANE
    DEDUCTIBLE (PERCENTAGE) WITH SUPPLEMENTAL
    REPORTING REQUIREMENT – FLORIDA
    ALL FORMS EXCEPT HO 00 04
    SCHEDULE*
    Calendar Year Hurricane Deductible Amount:
    *Entries may be left blank if shown elsewhere in this policy for this coverage.


    A. Loss By Windstorm During A Hurricane
    W ith respect to Paragraphs C. and D., coverage
    for loss caused by the peril of windstorm during a
    hurricane which occurs anywhere in the state of
    Florida, includes loss to:
    1. The inside of a building; or
    2. The property contained in a building caused by:
    a. Rain;
    b. Snow;
    c. Sleet;
    d. Hail;
    e. Sand; or
    f. Dust;
    If the direct force of the windstorm damages the
    building, causing an opening in a roof or wall and
    the rain, snow, sleet, hail, sand or dust enters
    through this opening.


    B. Hurricane Described
    1. A hurricane means a storm system that has
    been declared to be a hurricane by the National
    Hurricane Center of the National W eather Service.
    2. A hurricane occurrence:
    a. Begins at the time a hurricane watch or
    warning is issued for any part of Florida by
    the National Hurricane Center of the National
    W eather Service; and
    b. Ends 72 hours following the termination of
    the last hurricane watch or hurricane warning
    issued for any part of Florida by the National
    Hurricane Center of the National
    W eather Service.


    C. Calendar Year Hurricane Deductible Described
    A hurricane deductible issued by us or another insurer
    in our insurer group:
    1. Can be exhausted only once during each calendar
    year; and
    2. Applies to loss to Covered Property caused by
    one or more hurricanes during each calendar
    year.
    The dollar amount of the calendar year hurricane
    deductible is determined by multiplying the Coverage
    A limit of liability shown in the Declarations by
    the percentage amount shown in the Schedule
    above.
    A minimum deductible of $500 applies.


    D. Application of Calendar Year Hurricane
    Deductible
    1. In the event of the first windstorm loss caused
    by a single hurricane occurrence during a calendar
    year, we will pay only that part of the total
    of all loss payable under Section I – Property
    Coverages that exceeds the calendar year hurricane
    deductible stated in the Schedule.
    2. W ith respect to a windstorm loss caused by the
    second, and each subsequent, hurricane occurrence
    during the same calendar year, we
    will pay only that part of the total of all loss payable
    under Section I - Property Coverages that
    exceeds the greater of:
    a. The remaining dollar amount of the calendar
    year hurricane deductible; or
    b. The deductible that applies to fire that is in
    effect at the time of the loss.
    Page 2 of 2 © ISO Properties, Inc., 2005 HO 03 51 05 05
    The remaining dollar amount of the calendar
    year hurricane deductible is determined by subtracting
    all previous windstorm losses caused
    by hurricanes during the calendar year from the
    calendar year hurricane deductible.
    3. If:
    a. Covered property is insured under more
    than one policy issued by us or another insurer
    in our insurer group; and
    b. Different hurricane deductibles apply to the
    same property under such policies;
    Then the hurricane deductible applicable under
    all such policies, used to determine the total of
    all loss payable under Section I - Property Coverages
    shall be the highest amount stated in
    any one of the policies.
    4. When a renewal policy is issued by us or an
    insurer in our insurer group, or we issue a policy
    that replaces one issued by us or an insurer
    in our insurer group, and the renewal or replacement
    policy takes effect on a date other
    than January 1st of a calendar year, the following
    provisions apply:
    a. If the renewal or replacement policy provides
    a lower hurricane deductible than the
    prior policy, and you incurred loss from a
    hurricane under the prior policy in that same
    calendar year, the lower hurricane deductible
    will not take effect until January 1st of
    the following calendar year.
    b. If the renewal or replacement policy provides
    a lower hurricane deductible than the
    prior policy and you have not incurred a hurricane
    loss in that same calendar year, the
    lower hurricane deductible will take effect
    on the effective date of the renewal or replacement
    policy.
    c. If the renewal or replacement policy provides
    a higher hurricane deductible than the
    prior policy, the higher hurricane deductible:
    (1) Will take effect on the effective date of
    the renewal or replacement policy; and
    (2) Shall be used to calculate the remaining
    dollar amount of the hurricane deductible
    described in Paragraph 2.
    5. We require that you promptly report any windstorm
    loss caused by a hurricane occurrence
    that is below the hurricane deductible so that
    we may consider the amount of such loss when
    adjusting claims for subsequent hurricane occurrences
    that occur during the calendar year.
    E. Loss By Windstorm That Is Not A Declared
    Hurricane
    Refer to the policy declarations for the deductible
    that applies to windstorm loss if the circumstances
    of the loss described above do not apply.
    All other provisions of this policy apply.

    There you have it in a nutshell...Boys and Girls..........

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