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I dont know where you are working this claim, but in Oklahoma, the meter belongs to the muncipality. If this is a commercial claim, make sure there is coverage for freeze.

The apartment complex doesn't own the meters, the city does. At least, in Oklahoma, that's how it works.

Happy Trails

Yeah, I mean it's the same in New York City, however, I am told by that if damages are due to freezing DEP who runs water meters here may decline to replace them. And, what if, hypothetically, I had to pay for water meter, how would I price those? Anybody?

Thanks

c'mon Alex. I know you are one of the smartest here.

from the NYC DEP website:

Water meters can be damaged by freezing conditions. If your meter freezes because you neglected to take simple steps to protect it from the cold, DEP will repair or replace the meter at your expense.

if you look around on the internet it looks like most cities charge $50 to $200.00.

Can you just call DEP and ask them?

I am not sure about smartest, thanks for the compliment, thought. Man, being an adjuster in NYC is like being at war. People I meet, situations that arise are sometimes worth a book :) Yeah, I will wait for the city to either replace those and send us a bill or refuse to do so and give us denial. :)

Posted By Alex_Chernov on 18 Mar 2013 10:03 PM
I am not sure about smartest, thanks for the compliment, thought. Man, being an adjuster in NYC is like being at war. People I meet, situations that arise are sometimes worth a book :) Yeah, I will wait for the city to either replace those and send us a bill or refuse to do so and give us denial. :)

...........................................

Just a few quick questions Alex, being that your insured most likely doesn't own said water meters, is there any assertion that your insured was found to be liable for incurred damages (negligence)?  It would seem that a claim was filed based upon a bill submitted to your insured, how much was that bill? What is the city saying? If the city does own the meters, (like any other city, pricing for material and labor fluctuate wildly) are you inclined to pay whatever they say the meters are worth and the labor rates to install them (being that there is no line item within XM8)?

Posted By Alex_Chernov on 17 Mar 2013 12:30 PM

So, I have a claim, where a bunch of water meters froze and raptured in an apartment complex. How do I figure repairs costs?

thanks

(forgive me for this) but being that these allegedly Christian water meters were "RAPTURED" isn't there an exclusion for "Acts of GOD?"

I once drove from Palm Springs or some place way out in the desert I can't remember back to LA, and I went off the freeway to avoid a huge traffic jam several miles long. I went through some isolated areas a hundred miles from my home. Wouldn't you know it, I was assigned a claim a day later for a guard rail damaged by a tow truck going off the road on the same rural road I had driven on the day before. So I drive all the way back to the same spot. I was able to verify the precise crash site when I found the driver's log book in a ditch. I carefully measured the pressure treated posts and measured the now repaired guard rail.

The city billed the tow company based on their own workers labor, plus supervision, etc. I called around and was able to find a contractor that did the same work, and he told me what he would bill the city for the same length of rail. When I talked to the city about their bill, I politely explained that it seemed high, and others did the work for less. I asked them if they could recalculate their bill. The city employee was very nice and said nobody had ever asked them to reduce their bill before. She checked with her manager and they agreed to lower it. I was actually surprised too, that they would agree.

Being a daily claim I charged for my time to research the pricing and call the city, and the carrier was happy to pay less than what was originally billed.

The moral of the story is even the government might lower their price, but you have to ask.

Back to the frozen water meters- I would also question the coverage- I could see several reasons they might not be covered:

1) city owned- not the insured's property - not covered on the policy
2) frozen pipe exclusion might come into play for vacant properties
3) HO3 policies usually exclude the part that leaks, but pay for the ensuing damage- if there is no ensuing damage to the building, no covered loss
4) many times policies won't cover plumbing outside the building

So are they even covered?

Also if there is a coverage question on the meters, there will also be an issue with ALE. No covered loss, no ALE either.

Robby, good joke about rapture/rupture :) I wish we had a PA (public adjuster) exclusion on the policy. Which would say. "if you hire a public adjuster, we will only pay 50% of his estimate". :) Well, the claim came through a PA and he is dragging his feet. There is obviously some element of neglect on part of insured. Buildings are crappy townhouses in the part of Far Rockaway, which, shall we say, you do not want to visit even in the day time, unless you want to buy some drugs :) So, all the ground level space under the building was supposed to be a garage but is just kinda empty and NOT HEATED. Insured did a half ass job of trying to close off the openings, hence freezing.

Leland
Carrier is kinda saying there is no coverage for frozen plumbing in unheated space. However, there is coverage for sprinkler systems. Properties are not vacant, there are people there, I was there Thursday afternoon and the dwellers were chilling and listening to good rap music. Policy is a commercial package deal. Plumbing and meters are INSIDE the unheated ground floor space.


But the point of my post was, how come we do not have this line item? So, none of you replaced water meters ever?

I can't find a line item in Xm8 for a commercial water filter system or the pressure pots they use in NJ.The flood policy covers water softener chemicals (usually soda ash) under the building coverage - not in Xactimate. In Calif a lot of people have their water heaters outside in a sheet metal enclosure installed by the plumber- also not in Xactimate. There are tons of things not in Xactimate. I couldn't find lightweight roof concrete when I worked Ike. We were told to find missing commercial items in another database and insert them into Xm8 as bid items. When I went to New Zealand I created probably 50 line items, based on pricing I researched by contacting contractors, just like the real price list is created. Just use a bid item, or modify an existing line item. Xm8 even tells you how to do it, and recommends that you change an existing item rather than try to make one from scratch. Check the help section if you have questions. It is perfectly acceptable to add an f9 note, explaining who at what department of the city quoted what for what model of water meter, with the persons phone number, email, and title, too, if you want. Or just leave it out of Xactimate, and do an old school hand typed SOL, with the water meters as a separate line item.

correction- water heater enclosures are now in xm8. I didn't notice they were added....

Posted By Alex_Chernov on 21 Mar 2013 08:13 PM
Robby, good joke about rapture/rupture :) I wish we had a PA (public adjuster) exclusion on the policy. Which would say. "if you hire a public adjuster, we will only pay 50% of his estimate". :) Well, the claim came through a PA and he is dragging his feet. 

....
But the point of my post was, how come we do not have this line item? So, none of you replaced water meters ever?

Many manuscript policies have these.  They provide coverage for handling or preparation fees to be done by an architect, accountant, etc.  While the policy affords coverage for these expenses, they exclude coverage for any fees incurred by Public Adjusters.  However, it does not exclude hourly fees incurred by Claim Preparation.

Regardless, the exclusion does not really work since contracts between the PA and Insured are based on contingency fee.  If you reach an agreed cost with the insured, the PA gets a percentage of the agreed cost.

The second part of your post copied from above:  Nope, never.