| 01/25/2010 7:45 PM |
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I have been assigned to do a supplemental claim, the insureds state that the third stall on the open face barn was destroyed. Of course the debris has been cleaned up already as months have past since the storm. The only thing that I could find was a 7' 4x4 in the ground. There was no evidence of the third stall being attatched to the other two stalls, I am at a loss. The original adjusters report done shortly after the storm only has a few photos of the barn and even then it does appear to have ever existed. Here is what I have done so far. I have requested from the insured photos of the barn so that I can make sure they get exactly what they had. They dont have any, only lived in the home since the early 70's. I have gone to the county website to see if the barns sq. footage was listed, there was no mention of the barn on the tax rolls. I have gone onto google earth and tried to get close enough to see but the photos are to blurry and appear to be recent. I have included a picture hope it helps.
Please any advice that you can give would be most appreciated.
Dnjsdad |
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| 01/25/2010 8:09 PM |
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at this point, it's up to them to prove the third stall existed.
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| 01/25/2010 8:37 PM |
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Was an underwriting inspection done back whenever, which may have photos of the barn included?
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StormSupportGold Member  Member Posts:203  
| 01/25/2010 10:01 PM |
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Are there any holes left in the existing structure? What was the flooring in the 3rd stall? Seems to me there is a good amount of grass growing on the sides of the structure. There will be evidence the 3rd stall was there if you look closely. Take lots of close up pictures, sometimes you can see things in the photos that you've missed in person. Do the right thing, ALWAYS
~Meg~
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ChuckDeatonLife Member  Senior Member Posts:1110 
| 01/25/2010 10:22 PM |
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Clearly, from the supplied image, any third stall was not on the front or the visible end. If a third stall was destroyed it the evidence is not apparent. Generally speaking it is the insured's responsibility to prove the loss.
"Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt
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| 01/25/2010 10:23 PM |
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Was that supposed stall a lean-to? I see a post on one side. Any holes in the ground where the utility trailer is parked? |
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| 01/25/2010 11:28 PM |
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Call the carrier and ask them. You are wasting money spending more time on it in my opinion. You have done a good job. Insd is probably lying anyway and you can't disproove it. Ask the person who writes the check and move on.
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| 01/26/2010 12:08 AM |
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Where they say the stall was was on the visible end. There is no evidence of it being attached anywhere. The only thing that I could find supporting a stall is that one 7' post. I will call the carrier tommorrow and see if they did an inspection. They have a PA involved who wants 5k for this third stall. I will ask them if they want me to speak with the neighbors. If it is owed I want to pay it, if it is not I dont.
Thanks,
Dnjsdad |
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| 01/26/2010 12:16 AM |
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Agree with Bobabooey. Although the insured is probably full of crap and agree it is his responsibility to prove, you gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. How much more money is the supplement versus your time and cost to investigate? Sometimes you just have to write it up and depreciate the heck out of it and move on. It is a game and, for small dollars, some are just not worth playing. Just my thoughts. Gimme a bottle of anything and a glazed donut ... to go! (DLR)
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Ray HallSenior Member Posts:2443
| 01/26/2010 12:41 AM |
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What is the definition of a stall, I can only see 2 spaces for storage. Was livestock kept in the stalls? No photo no stall, the grass would not look like this in one year.
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Leland Advanced Member Posts:741
| 02/01/2010 12:31 AM |
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asking for underwriting photos is a good idea. When they refinanced last year did the appraiser take photos? You can maybe call the veterinarian or farrier or honey dipper that's been out to the property before and ask them if they remember it.
Seems to me a denial might be in order due to possible violation of "duties after loss" ie. exhibit damages, make a prompt claim etc, you need to check the policy and ask the carrier.
Did the previous adjuster write up scope notes or measurements?
Can you call him? (He might be on this website- He's the one telling you to pay the claim)
I wouldn't assume they are lying and I would never let them know I was thinking that, if I were you.
I agree with the previous posters: ask for guidance from the carrier, don't waste a lot of time.
What's that tar paper sticking out? was that where the connection to the other shed was?
was the insured able to describe the construction materials? Did two different people describe it differently or give very vague answers: "I can't remember if it was metal... I can't remember what color it was...I'm not sure what we stored in there...."
Who threw away the debris? The insured, or did he pay somebody to haul it away?
Even if the google earth photos are blurry the size will be there- use the ruler function, change it to feet.
If you have an existing shed that is 10 x 20 (twice as long as wide) and google looks about 9 to 11 feet by about 28 to 32 feet, (3 x as long as wide) I would just figure that google earth is showing the third stall.
What is the name of the horse that lived in stall #3?
I work in the big city, but do farmers usually throw away used metal roofing? wouldn't they recycle something into a chicken coop? They threw ALL of it away not even saving the lumber ? Looks like they DO save some other stuff that they have laying around...
Does it make any difference if it was ATTACHED or DETACHED? If so, it's important to ask- how was it connected..
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Tom TollModerator & Life Member Senior Member Posts:1865 
| 02/01/2010 1:24 PM |
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Have them move the trailer, spray on the ground where the third stall was, and then have them point out how it was attached to the existing structure. I don't see any point on the existing building that shows where anything else was attached to it. Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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| 02/09/2010 11:27 PM |
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Check out Google Earth. Look at the clock icon on the menu bar. This shows photos from satellite shots at numerous different time periods. The one I am looking at currently goes back to 1999, and has about 10 different base images for comparative purposes. You may have some difficulty if this is a rural location w/o much Google Earth coverage, but if not, this is a great tool. |
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| 02/09/2010 11:32 PM |
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Checkout bing.com aerial photos as well. Has a birdseye view option, which zooms in and allows you to rotate 90 degrees getting different angles/views. Same as RJ stated above though, not every property will show up, but those that do show better than google earth imo. |
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| 02/10/2010 1:50 PM |
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You've requested photos and you've made reasonable effort to document this loss. If this is a home owner's policy, they have a duty to "(1) show the damaged property; (2) Provide us with records and documents we request...."
You've probably already requested building materials receipts.
You don't have to dispute the insured's word that the property existed to deny the claim. It's about the documentation. If they can't show you damaged property or documents you request, and the carrier doesn't want to extend coverage beyond the terms of the contract, they should understand.
If, per chance, this was a farm and ranch policy, the outbuilding would have to be scheduled or not covered.
I think you've done your job.
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| 02/10/2010 2:06 PM |
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If you use Assurecalc, you can use satelite photos to pinpoint the risk, then when you've confirmed the location, you can click for much better photos from aerial fly by. Eagleview costs between $60 to $100. Assurecalc cost $6 to $10, depending on how often you use them. I think they might give you ten or so free as a trial.
It probably won't show any more than you've already seen, just a closer look.
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