Tim_Johnson Member Posts:243  
| 12/02/2006 7:53 PM |
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I have ordered my copy. I've missed something over the passed 25 years. Now, where do I order one of those dogs from? Are they $169 as well?
Tim Johnson
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Tom TollModerator & Life Member  Senior Member Posts:1865 
| 12/02/2006 8:33 PM |
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Chuck, I am inclined to agree with you, but the methodology of presentation is that of a TV infomercial. She may have some good advice to give to others, but after reading her presentation, I would not give her a dollar for it. It does not truly represent what adjusting is all about. There are no shorcuts in this business. She is preying on newbee adjusters who, at this point, have no idea what they are doing.
Chuck, you, I and and a number of others have done it the way it should be done by opening the books, going to seminars and schools and practical in field experience. In order to be a good adjuster, you must dedicate yourself to this profession, as it is not the big money maker she professes, if it were, I would be retired with a ton of money in the bank. It just does not work the way she presents it. I feel most do not like the idea of her going through a back door to present her product, as opposed to paying for the ad, as many others have done.
Members of the Gorilla web sight don't like her presentation either, at least we all agree with that. She did accomplish one thing, brought it to everyone's attention. Good marketing strategy, not much integrity involved, but it did work, for now anyway.
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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MedulusModerator  Veteran Member Posts:786
| 12/02/2006 9:59 PM |
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Chuck,
Welcome Back! We haven't heard enough from you lately.
I value your opinion considerably. As the author of the e-books CAT 101 and CAT 102 you certainly have more to say to this than most of the rest of us.
It isn't the writing of a book about how to be a catadjuster or even how to market oneself as a catadjuster that is offensive. Writing a book, even if it is self-published, is an arduous and even monumental undertaking. I should know. I'm sitting here in Oaxaca, Mexico revising and rewriting my friend's book, Whatever Happened To Rebecca Evans?, and have been working on it, bit by bit, for months now.
Completing a book is an accomplishment. Telling the truth, the whole truth, in your ads is a moral obligation.
What rankles me, and most of the others who have responded, is the advertising. I mentor people free of charge from time to time. Others who are successful in this industry do the same. You have offered your e-books full of highly useful information for years to those who simply requested them. We could charge for our services, and you could charge for your e-books. Nothing wrong with that.
An ad clearly copied from an annoying late night infomercial about how to get rich by being a catadjuster doesn't tell the whole story any more than the infomercial from which it was copied. It opens the poster of the ad to derision.
Now, when someone decides to make catadjusting into a multi-level marketing scheme, the gloves are really coming off.
By the way, Chuck, for those who are newer to the field, are your e-books still available for the asking? If so, you might want to share the information about how to obtain them with those who have joined us in the past couple years.
Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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HuskerCatVeteran Member Posts:762
| 12/03/2006 2:49 AM |
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I found it kind of interesting that "Cindy" just now surfacedl, while some of the regular contributors disappeared. Such a well-written solicitation almost makes me wonder if the "Great Cado Hoax" hasn't been pulled off by someone quite creative and with a lot of time on their hands! The real "Cindy", by her self-assured demeanor in the web-site, I think would have at least defended herself. For those of you who looked for a Texas licence, did you try Cinderella? This could just be a fairy tale. But it's been fun anyway.
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| 12/03/2006 12:05 PM |
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OMG...! Have we really reached the place in our profession that we are going to market ourselves like Licensed Real Estate Brokers / Salespersons or Car Dealers?
Let's not lower the standards of our profession any further than it has become by marketing ourselves in this manner.
Marketing a book or manual that will solve all your adjuster issues and make you rich?
*** If, there were any additional short cuts into becoming a qualified adjuster we would have already been doing it or figured out how to sell it, years ago. Her website marketing plan reminds me of a get rich with “No Money Down”, get rich by “Placing Small Ads” or like those Tony Robbins people that profit off of your emotions.
What next, a computer program straight to the brain like in the movie, the Matrix?
Yeah that's it! …
We'll get hardwired and say: "Hey storm manager, I need to know anything and everything about all Insurance Policies and anything and everything about Construction, Materials, Engineering, etc!"
Storm Manager: "Roger that! It's downloading to your brain, now!"
...Poof...10 seconds later.
"Got it, thanks storm manager!" “Wow, I am now a qualified Adjuster, I know Policy and I am a Construction & Materials Expert!”
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| 12/03/2006 1:29 PM |
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Why spend $$$ on a book from a websight to show you how to be an adjuster. Just wait for the next large storm, hold your hand up and volunteer to go. I think we all met some of those folks during Katrina/Rita/Wilma. A few actually made good hands. What bothers me about all the ads like this is most do not tell you that you may or may not go out on the next storm. Oh and that 100k a year may only be 20k, or 10k, and the likelyhood you wll be there till the end of the storm is pretty slim, those positions are usually reserved for the for the adjusters that have been around for a while.
All that is a little tongue in cheek. What is a shame is that some one will buy the book, quit a decent job, and wait on a call. I do not have enough years in the business that companies are knocking my door down when a storm hits. And the one action that gets me called was not taught at any course I ever attended. And the quality that kept me at the storms till the end, cannot be taught in books, especially $169 get rich quick books.
Just my 2 cents
JWG
I know the voices aren't real, but sometimes they're right!
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Janice R. Martin-TollLife Member  Guest Posts:35 
| 12/03/2006 1:46 PM |
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An almost certainty is that Cindy’s website has gotten more publicity due to our comments than it would have otherwise. As of now, there have been over 550 views. Regardless of how we feel about the tactics being used by Cindy, or how worthwhile her manual is, I’d bet Tom’s “Oceanfront Property” in Central Arkansas that some will believe the hype and order. Cindy will be laughing - all the way to the bank. Janice R. Martin-Toll
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Gale HawkinsPowerClaim.com Member Posts:386
| 12/03/2006 2:44 PM |
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While Cindy’s taste, tact, etc can be called into question it is no different than what the lawyers and drug companies are doing on a daily bases. Trying to limit stop this trend will be as successful as stopping a hurricane and as we know all hurricanes stop sooner or later. Letting them stop of natural causes is the best way to protect our assets. Most books on adjusting are self published and I have yet to know of one adjuster/writer that was able to stop adjusting because of the selling of books profits. Besides who has been in the CAT adjusting business for the long haul who has not had one or more $100K years? I have reason to believe the story one or two husband/wife teams that broke $200K. The same can be said for some lawyers but at the same time there are both lawyers and adjusters that do not break $25K a year. While it seems from talking with seasoned adjusters $60-$75K is more the expected norm heck if I was selling a book I would go with the figure 90% of CAT adjusters shoot for annually even if most miss it. I am sure there are insurance executives that make less than $100K a year that are working full time on figuring out ways to stop this kind of pay to CAT adjusters. I have had examiners tell me that some CAT adjusters go out of their way to let the examiner know he is being paid less than they are. Not smart to say the least. We all know this kind of payment is at risk and you can bet the link to Cindy’s ad will be seen by no less than 1250 in the industry when they return to the office tomorrow. The funny part is there are those out there thinking of starting a CAT company saying if I could find 200 adjusters would could make $100K a year that my cut would be $40K each time 200 would make my cut $8 million dollars. Greed is driven from top down in some cases. I can’t believe some of you have not heard the same speech as in Cindy’s ad by a vendor somewhere along the way.
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| 12/03/2006 5:24 PM |
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As we have watched the bar lower over the last couple of years, it was only a mater of time till we reached the bottom feeding scum suckers. We have come close before, but now we have the Madame Cleo of adjusting. As to the comments about the publicity helping Madame Cindy, anyone who reads the comments here or on the other site and still subscribes is, well what could we say? I have been offened by some of the schools that have poped up (and closed?) and I am offended by this.
I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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Jud G. Advanced Member Posts:509
| 12/03/2006 5:35 PM |
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Well crud, I told myself I wouldn't post on this thread. After several views, I just couldn't resist.
Secrets learned by the veteran catastrophe adjusters of this industry are indeed valuable lessons that increase one's productivity. The lessons learned were all done with our fair share of stripes and marks.
It is up to each individual to choose what to do with those lessons. Should you decide to make some extra cash, keep them to yourself, or pay it forward by sharing with others as a personal sense of gratitude, then that's up to you.
While I agree that the tone of her sales pitch is a bit tacky, she may very well offer a valuable service. I say kudos for her entrepeneurial spirit in the midst of a slow period. Should you pause and decide to dig through the archives here on CADO or meet up with a veteran adjuster, you will find more tricks than what you would pay for.
You will find that most of us Catastrophe Adjusters stick together and are more than happy to share our knowledge. The reason why is because we know that knowledge and tricks aren't the sole basis of our employment. One can have all the knowledge in the world, but if the customer (carrier, vendor, or insured) isn't happy with his/her negative or pompous attitude, that person's reputation will dissipate in the midst of all their years, certifications, and technical knowledge.
This is analagous to a partially cracked pecan. The nut tastes great, but just one sliver of the shell will ruin it all. |
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| 12/03/2006 6:10 PM |
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Janice,
Stupid is as stupid does
Her losses will far exceed any gain she may reap. |
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Tom TollModerator & Life Member Senior Member Posts:1865
| 12/03/2006 6:15 PM |
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Jud, very good post and very, very true. I know many GA's and adjusters who would, at the drop of a hat, answer questions to help their fellow adjuster. Some contend that we are too independent to be organized and with this, I disagree. We can still be organized and be independent souls. I have mentored adjusters for many years, without hesitation. I was taken under wing when I was learning, and learned that by helping others is a process of helping yourself. I don't like the way Cindy presented her offer of getting rich, bailing one's self out of debt, buying new houses, cars and trucks. It just does not work that way, as most of us with a lot of experience know. She does, however, mention several times that it is hard work and you must get off your butt and go to work, which is true.
This is an unusual profession (commodity some say) requiring on going training for the duration of ones working life. It is an occupation that brings one joy in being able to help people and make a decent living.
This is not a time for infomercials, nor should it ever be.
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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Janice R. Martin-TollLife Member Guest Posts:35
| 12/03/2006 6:52 PM |
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Posted By cantonking on 12/03/2006 6:10 PM
Janice,
Stupid is as stupid does
Her losses will far exceed any gain she may reap.
Canton, I couldn't agree with you more.
Please don't misinterpret my posts to mean that I agree with Cindy's tatics or that someone can learn to be an adjuster by sending Cindy $169.00. I most definitely do not! However, some will still believe the hype, not because they are stupid, but because they WANT to believe. No matter what we think about the tactics, Cindy is using marketing that has been proven to work. Her statements reach out and grab the inexperienced who have not been through the lean times that we with many years experience have. Neither does she mention the expense involved and that the bottom line can be a mere fraction of what she is promising.
Janice R. Martin-Toll Janice R. Martin-Toll
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Gale HawkinsPowerClaim.com Member Posts:386
| 12/03/2006 7:40 PM |
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One thing I notice is how many self trained adjusters are in adjusting today. While they may have had a family member, short term mentor or just someone they could call when stumped on an issue they did not come out of the old school of adjusting. It is unreal how many IA firms today are headed up by say former GAB adjusters or that were well trained at some major carrier mentoring program. The old standards of quality and ethics may not have been past down as had been the case from one generation to the next generation of adjusters. There is a segment of CAT vendors that have the standards of Enron except in a scaled down model. Like it or not they by larger are the ones introducing new CAT adjusters to the industry. Many of us on CADO tonight will not be associated with the adjusting industry in 10 years from now in any meaningful way. Some of the charges made about ethics at even the major players today may insure the professionalism of the adjusting industry peaked late last century. Someone said time changes all things and someone else said there is nothing new under the sun. Maybe both are correct to some extent.
If the U.S. is going to be at the level of that Latin American is today by the year of 2050 when compared to the economies of India and China we are going to have to see a huge loss of values. I have quit trying to watch the evening news because you can read it 1-3 days before in the internet headlines and the head lines are so bad you just do not want to read the story and have that negative info in your brain. Our country is about 235 years old and that is about tops for any form of government to last before the beginning of its collapse. If our value system continues to slide the collapse of Social Security may be the end of the U.S. Well at least those planning to retire in 2050 know where to invest today. We can plot our future path today by looking at the countries with a heavy negative birth rate today. Europe will be non Anglo by majority very soon according to some that study the subject.
What we are seeing in the world of claims handling is not just related just to this industry if we will back out of the trees and look at the entire forest |
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| 12/07/2006 11:26 AM |
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I rarely post anymore, however, I agree with the deletion of non-paid advertising. Why didn't someone delete the post earlier this year from the guy "teaching" two story/ steep classes around the Southern states. He/she offered no certification, yet he was commended for what he was doing by experienced CADO folks/moderators . Personally, I thought it was another scam. Yet another trying to bilk more money out of the newbies for profit during a time they really couldn't afford it.
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Tom TollModerator & Life Member Senior Member Posts:1865
| 12/07/2006 11:58 AM |
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I am not familiar with a guy offering rope and harness training. Must have been while I was in hospital. Can you lead me to the post. I would like to read it.
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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| 12/24/2006 3:53 AM |
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Cantonking,
How does CINDY actually effect you to the point where you become a negative person, with a negative post, and a negative outlook on what she is attempting to do by blasting her. Dude (sorry I know that word isn't professional) hey if Someone wants to buy the book go for it, if an employer wants to hire someone who has read the book thats their business. She hasn't done anything wrong and this thread most CERTAINLY has in fact got YOU, ME and Most other to look hasn't it?
Bottom Line, HER POST MADE YA LOOK DIDNT IT! So WHATS EXACTLY IS THE PROBLEM.... LOL 
R. Estes
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MedulusModerator Veteran Member Posts:786
| 12/24/2006 9:29 AM |
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Roy,
The problem is exactly this. There are many people marketing themselves as catadjusters who are unprofessional in appearance, attitude, skill level, and work product. The appeal of the ad to people who have no experience or training in either insurance or construction exacerbates the problem. The only part of the ad I agree with is the part about the hard work involved. The number of unprofessional catadjusters has risen dramatically in 2004 and 2005 as every available warm body was taken off the streets, strapped into a seat and given a three day "training course", then sent out to meet the public. At least half the time I spent on Hurricane Katrina was cleaning up the mess left behind in the wake of a couple of these guys. I regularly encounter people in the position to hire us who have a negative image of catadjusters, who see us as the bottom feeders of the industry. This is because of their experience with some of our cohorts who actually are bottom feeders.
Some of us have been struggling with this image for a long time, trying to improve the image of our profession. Improvement of that image translates directly to more work, which translates directly to putting food on our tables and putting our kids through college. Anyone who chooses to make us look like a bunch of unskilled buffoons or a opportunistic get rich quick scheme is going to draw fire from some of us - legitimately so. There is such a thing as bad publicity. And bad publicity potentially takes money out of my pocket. "I Made Ya Look" is a kid's game, and its been a long time since I was a kid. Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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Gale HawkinsPowerClaim.com Member Posts:386
| 12/24/2006 5:42 PM |
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Steve, you and many others adjust in a professional manner I am certain. If adjusting ever becomes a recognized profession like any other profession then it will be self regulated by a board make of members of the trade and exist by statute. As far as Cindy goes I have never read her post or a comment by her but only know of her through others wishing to attract attention to her for one reason or another. I am in agreement if I was on the inside looking out I would not appreciate her sales letter.
Anytime a person without even a high school education can earn $100K in one year the environment is going to attract lotto players. Cindy is a creation of the industry and nothing more perhaps. While you have long since established yourself in the industry you may get to side step the vendor pitches that new folks coming into the CAT world have to listen to at some of the vendors.
The vendor that knows he is not going to pay the new adjuster for 6 weeks and maybe 6 months has to lay it on heavy to get the new recruit to finance himself for that period of time. In all likelihood Cindy was just repeating things told her by one or more CAT vendors. When an adjuster can get fired with reason today and start his own CAT Company tomorrow there is something wrong it would seem. It seems the CAT environment can bring out both the best and the worse of people. |
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Gale HawkinsPowerClaim.com Member Posts:386
| 01/16/2007 11:26 PM |
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Some of these may have made less than $100K in 2006 if the stories are for real.
http://www.jfoxcpa.com/humorbyte.html
Darwin Awards
It's that time again... The Darwin Awards are finally out, the annual honor given to the persons who did the gene pool the biggest service by killing themselves in the most extraordinarily stupid way. Last year's winner was the fellow who was killed by a Coke machine which toppled over on top of him as he was attempting to tip a free soda out. This year's winner was a real rocket scientist... Really!
And the nominees were:
Semifinalist #1
A young Canadian man, searching for a way of getting drunk cheaply, because he had no money with which to buy alcohol, mixed gasoline with milk. Not surprisingly, this concoction made him ill, and he vomited into the fireplace in his house. This resulting explosion and fire burned his house down, killing both him and his sister….. |
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