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Last Post 09/13/2007 9:04 AM by  Dimechimes
Dishonest Commercials
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Medulus
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09/08/2007 10:52 PM

    Does this bother anyone else? 

    I just watched the new State Farm commercial where a tree falls on the insured's car.  He calls his Brand X insurance company and asks if he is covered.  The adjuster tells him that damage from a falling tree is excluded, except for the Ficus.  (Ray, this is not an opening for you to talk about Ficus Tree.  That would be off-point.)  Then we are told that he would not have had this problem with State Farm. 

    They have another commercial where the guy comes out to his car and sees that someone has scratched the name "Brad" on his car.  He calls Brand X insurance who informs him that only full names are covered, not nicknames.

    This is humor. I get that.  But, unfortunately, some in the general public do actually believe that their insurance company has stupid rules like these.  The commercials are feeding into this ignorance to sell a State Farm policy.

    The more insidious commercial is by Progressive.  Brother Dave borrows the car to go out and spin donuts.  Then the woman has a bright idea -- why not have a policy where anyone you let drive the car is covered -- implying that this is some sort of new concept.  In fact, most policies issued by most companies have coverage for permissive users of the vehicle.  In most, if not all, states the policy follows the car as primary, as well as certain drivers listed on the policy and their households as excess.  There is a significant portion of the public that is not aware of this.  Progressive has decided to use this ignorance as a basis for marketing. 

    Unscrupulous plaintiffs council have been using this tactic for years.  Case in point -- the commercial where an adjuster and supervisor are in the bathroom talking about how they are going to stick it to a claimant.  Then the supervisor asks who the attorney is.  When the name is mentioned, they suddenly cower in fear and say they better settle it right away.  This commercial runs in different cities with different law firms plugged into the dialogue.  Ironically, the law firms mentioned are often not firms that would strike fear into the hearts of any adjuster in their right mind.  Obviously, at least obvious to us in the insurance business, the types of conversations that are portrayed in the commercial just don't happen. 

    I expect plaintiffs council to lie about the ethical standards of our industry.  I am disgusted that insurance carriers have decided to follow suit.

    Is anyone else similarly disgusted?

     

    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
    katadj
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    09/09/2007 3:14 AM
    Steve,

    This is getting to the heart of the matter. There are many carriers that resort to selling based on what their promotional sales staff recommends, rather than just rely on what the truth is.

    Many have their slogans so entrenched in the public minds that they feel no need to change. WHY? Because they are now attacking the second and third generation of buyers, who are influenced by their parents or other guiding lights.

    You are in Good Hands with A_______ . Like a Good Neighbor S____ F____ is there. And on and on.

    Despite the outlandish profits the carriers have posted, we still have many that are suffering from occurrences which are 2-3-5 years old, with no indication of claim settlement.

    As we deal with the trauma and despair on a daily basis, it does burn some of our lower posteriors (a/k/a/ A$$#s)that they spend millions of dollars to promote their programs but spend as little as possible to satisfy the claims which are legitimate.

    The public at large does not comprehend the basics of the policy and it is doubtful that some agents even understand.

    They must be educated to the policy language. The BIG words giveth and the small words taketh away. End of story.
    "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new... Albert Einstein"
    stephie76
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    09/09/2007 10:55 AM

    I have seen all the commercials you are talking about. Yes, I am disgusted.

    My mom asked me last week if we should change insurance so that everyone driving would be covered.

    With so many commercials like this the ins companies must be making lots of money from the ignorance of the general public.

    JimGary
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    09/09/2007 12:17 PM
    Attacking dishonest commercials is like attacking water for being wet. If I take everything I see on TV as gospel, my long distance would be free, my mortgage would be 1% 1 day after bankruptcy, and my manhood would be greatly enhanced with Enzyte. Yes the adds are dishonest, (unlike my tax return) but they just follow the lead of our nations politicians, who never had sex with that woman, Monica Whatshername.

    JWG
    I know the voices aren't real, but sometimes they're right!
    ric
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    09/09/2007 12:41 PM
    I personally intend to apply for some safer jobs. Riot control police, Biker Bar Bouncer, flutless snake charmer etc.
    as Adjusters are not needed or called until folks are completely misinformed and whipped into a murderous frenzy.
    I wonder at times if there is a office pool that bets on which Insured will get you first, the one the help line told "your policy is no longer in force" just befor you go to scope, or the wind claim that has the flood check you scoped last month but NFIP has run out of funds and it is not good!! We adjusters just live for a challenge!!!!!!!!
    Oh and a wee bit of humor!!!
    Medulus
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    09/09/2007 10:30 PM
    Jim, you're point is well taken that we really don't expect commercials to be honest. But that wasn't really my point.

    My concern is that major insurers are encouraging the public to buy into a negative image of the insurance industry as a whole. Much of the public already has this image without encouragement. The recent Allstate commercials are superior to the State Farm and Progressive commercials in this respect in that they are pointing out innovative policy features which really are innovative. These are positive commercials pointing out what is actually offered.

    The truth about how the claim handling is performed by Allstate, State Farm, and others is another matter altogether. Many may be led to question the "good hands" and "good neighbor" slogans after they experience layer upon layer of micromanagement.
    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
    Tom Toll
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    09/10/2007 11:36 AM

    Of course this is disgusting and extremely detrimental to our industry. Many people know me in this area and have asked me about their coverage, due to these ads. That is totally ludicrious and very deceiving. That is deceptive adverstising and I am concerned that nothing is being done about it.

    The entire insurance industry is changing and not to the better. Having been in this industry for 47 years now, I have never seen it change as it has recently. Makes me wonder why I am still trying to make a living at it.

     

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    Todd_Summers
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    09/10/2007 4:36 PM

    I can assure you that these commercials were approved by State Farms legal team before being allowed to air.

    Dimechimes
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    09/10/2007 5:14 PM

    It sure doesn't look like any of this is going  to stop anytime soon. I'd posted this link on ClaimSmentor in August stating that insurance carriers are projected to have a 41% growth in online advertising at an expenditure of 1.38 billion:

    http://publications.mediapost.com/i...p;p=461853

    I sure wish some of these excessive advertising dollars were spent on training and communication with independents!

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    RedAdjuster
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    09/11/2007 10:33 PM
    You know it isn't just carriers that are dishonest with their customers. Some staffing firms, one in particular, send their clients newbies that are supose to be experienced, and some that are convicted felons. Everyone should be honest in business, but then where would the edge come from I guess?
    stephie76
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    09/11/2007 10:44 PM

    How do they send felons when everyone has to have a background check to be licensed?

    RedAdjuster
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    09/11/2007 10:53 PM
    In an emergency licensing situation, it takes awhile for a background check. And when the person or company supplying an IA firm with additional adjusters was already supose to perform this background check, then an adjuster could already be on site before it is discovered.
    Dimechimes
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    09/12/2007 12:12 AM

    Very interesting discussion on the felony background. I can tell you since this happened to our firm one time that adjusters do not always fully disclose background details. We had a situation in 05 where a loss adjuster was accepted based on interviews and reference checks from a major claim association membership the adjuster provided as a reference and sent on assignment and it was not until the state of Florida completed the background check for an emergency license  that the background was learned. It was a difficult situation for all involved although the claim manager had also interviewed and made final decisions on candidate selections and bore full responsibility for background checks based on the terms of our contract.

    Every firm is different and it depends on the terms of the contract between a staffing firm and the adjusting firm or carrier as to who will conduct the background check. We have always included terms in our contract that we leave that up to the adjusting firm to conduct  the background checks  as there are so many various requirements and different checks the firms want just as you experience as adjusters. A staffing firm may supply many candidates for submission for one position and it would not be economical unless the charge is passed on with the staffing fee to a firm  to conduct background checks on each and every applicant until you determine that they are in the final pool for consideration for an opportunity. We have  found the majority of adjusting firms require their own forms and use of firms they prefer to use to conduct the background final screenings as they also receive major discounts due to the large pool of candidates they send in for screening and they have a stated preference to control that expense. Many adjusting firms then pass that charge on to adjusters directly or through payroll deductions from first assignment payroll deductions. Many carriers operate under the exact same scenario. They will do preliminary screenings and even allow candidates to progress through the interview process and when they are in the group of finalists then submit their paper work through the formality of background checks.In the case of Citizens FL this year, they are requiring the adjusting firms conduct them for them on independents as they required the adjusting firm conduct them in the past.

    You will find that many firms do not conduct the background checks to become roster eligible as there are thousands of people on their rosters. They will have the authorization form in their new applicant package but do not conduct the check until they determine the candidate will be deployed. They will however usually conduct the background check prior to activation once they receive a standby confirmation. It varies from firm to firm. I have managed for 2 firms who did not conduct them  at all and relied  100% on the fact the state  licensing background checks were  performed. I have heard several stories over the past few years of firms who do normally conduct them becoming so busy in the process of deployments that they did not timely complete them falling back on the state department of insurance records to document the clear records. You should also see the new TX emergency license information although one of our firms has advised the carriers they service are still requiring the licensed adjuster for this very reason that "atleast they know the state has conducted the background check".

    Regarding the experience requirement, there apparently is a problem with adjusters "expanding on their qualifications" as NFIP pointed out  this year at the certification class we attended indicating they often receive resumes from an adjuster year 1 they reject since they do not meet the 4 year experience requirement then get a certfication request the next year with a much more extensive background for the same person  when they match up the applications. I've seen the same thing where it is barely recognizable as the same adjuster. Fortunately, it is a small number of adjusters who would hopefully conduct themselves in this manner.

    I find it hard to believe a staffing firm or adjusting firm  would send in "inexperienced" adjusters based on the comment above without permission of the firm they are staffing for. For example, in 05 we were required to send adjusters in with 3 years of experience, and almost  daily/weekly those experience requirements would change due to supply and demand of adjusters. We had a window of 3 weeks in the aftermath of Katrina to send adjusters in with licenses and construction backgrounds with no experience but within weeks those experience levels went right back up to a minimum of 2 year levels as experienced adjusters were released from prior commitments.. You can't make a blanket statement like that without knowing what the staffiing instructions are on a given day or week  to the adjusting firm from the carrier or from the adjusting firm to a staffing firm when an adjuster is sent in to a storm as they can change almost on an hourly basis. I think we've all heard the stories of a major adjusting firm using casino employees or adjusters in training dragged out of class during Katrina by many adjusting firms and sent on the road when the demand for adjuster numbers was so great. No firm however would work hard to obtain a client and intentionally circumvent the experience requirements which would only lose the client in the long run so that makes no sense.

    Reviewing applications daily for thousands of adjusters now, I can tell you that many inexperienced adjusters were used by ALL adjusting firms during Katrina, it was not an isolated issue to one staffing firm, one adjusting firm, or even one carrier. I have seen this on resumes across the board to include all major  and minor adjusting firms working for  all major carriers,etc.

    Here is an interesting  interview with Crawford I ran across recently which expresses much of what we are seeing on experience levels. This article states the move from the "Indiana-Jones type senior level adjuster to new directions some firms are going looking for the inexperienced adjuster as they are forming outstanding schools to train them the way the want them to handle claims. We received a similar request in the past week for licensed adjusters for a very reputable independent firm stating they "preferred to train them their way". Here's the article about Crawford and their school,etc :

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/...86753/pg_1

    It's an unfortunate problem I'm sure adjusting firms also face when an adjuster may indicate experience they may not actually have. It's amazing the "lango" someone can pick up in forums until put to the test of actually working  files. Again, hopefully this is a small number of adjusters but anyone in this business knows that you can't pass through strict file requirements if they are expecting the work product of an experienced adjuster and you submit a substandard work product.

    Part of the problem in the independent side of things is the fact that adjusters are on multiple rosters and do not want to provide references from current vendors they work for. You'd be surprised at the number of adjuster's whose resumes simply post "Independent adjuster employment and the year range" and they do not want to even disclose the carrier or adjusting firm names they have experience working with. I had a funny experience with one individual who alleged the carrier code of conduct forms as well as independent contracts  prevented him from disclosing he'd even worked claims for them.

    You all state in regularly in the forums, many were allowed to work during Katrina that may not otherwise have made it in a normal storm year. This is nothing new. As a staff manager, I recall many a year independent firms sent us those that were inexperienced during extremely heavy storm periods when the experienced adjusters were deployed on prior assignments.

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    brighton
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    09/12/2007 8:13 AM

    Stephie,

    You have to remember that there are pure staffing firms who supply adjusters to IA fims only. They do not handle any claims for a carrier. These, as has been posted above have a contract with firms and depending on the contract may or may not do backround checks. That is a matter of economics for the IA firm. Does the IA firm want to pay X dollars to the staffing firm before they even know they want that person ? Many choose to pay the staffing firm a fee after they accept the canidate and do their own backround check.

    There are staffing firms like US Staffing that supply carriers with temp positions and also do cat work. I know that they require the applicant to pay for the criminal backround check and that is sent directly to UDF. USF does not pay. Other IA firms will do the back round checks themselves regardless to remove the possiblilty of altered docuents being supplied by the applicant. Some carriers may require that the backround check be no older than 30 days, so again cost is a factor.

    Like when we want to work for someone, you have GOT TO READ THE CONTRACT BEFORE SIGNING or saying anything. The same thing holds true for staffing firms and IA firms, they have requirements and that is whay they go by too.

    Rocke Baker
    Tom Toll
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    09/12/2007 10:11 AM

    Redadjuster, yes, deceit and dishonesty is prevelant in all areas of work and personal life. I see you have been a guest since 10/06/06 and have not disclosed as to whether you are an adjuster, lawyer, or contractor.. Is hiding behind a fictitious name and not disclosing your relationship to this industry, not a form of deceit or dishonesty. You seem to know a lot about  dishonesty of others, so you say. Why don't you disclose how you obtained this information, for all of our sakes.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
    asimons
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    09/12/2007 6:42 PM

    I came across this article and wanted your thoughts.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...BurwdA0gdM

    Medulus
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    09/12/2007 8:07 PM
    I've seen this article before, but I always seem to encounter it at a time when I am on my way out the door, as I am now. Just a few thoughts on the approximately one third of the article I had a chance to read this time. Hopefully I'll get a chance to return and read the rest soon.

    While there are some disturbing things in the article, it is also not a clear analysis by any measure. It talks about trying to cut adjusting expenses and then gives examples of how companies have tried to cut claim expenses. It talks about whether you are in "good hands" with Allstate and then gives examples of how Allstate has been instructed to treat third parties (who I don't believe Allstate has any contractual duty to treat with "good hands"). It talks about record profits, but fails to spell out what is included in those figures. Does it include profits on investments as well as underwriting profits? What is the payout amount for those years? Are they making record profits but also making record payouts? The article leaves me, thus far, with more questions than answers. While I am in favor of rooting for David against Goliath, I also don't think this very long article presents us with all the facts or all the details. It leaves me wondering whether the writer was confused himself or whether he was deliberately trying to be confusing. Perhaps he is just trying to cover too much ground in one article.

    More of my analysis later, when I have had more of a chance to finish reading the article.
    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
    Gale Hawkins
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    09/12/2007 10:45 PM

    http://www.insurancejournal.com/new.../77498.htm

    State Farm CEO Gets 82% Pay Raise

    Some of the comments to this article are interesting and current.

    Dimechimes
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    09/13/2007 9:04 AM

    Nationwide, Allstate, and Fireman's Fund won the 2007 Insurance Marketing Awards this year

    http://www.businessinsurance.com/cg...2007-07-15

    At the opposite end of the spectrum, here is a favorite ad ... this Nationwide "Life comes at you fast" ad is very cool!

    http://publications.mediapost.com/i..._aid=62930

    There have to be some other great ones? Post yours!

     

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