butch sanders Guest Posts:39  
| 07/18/2007 10:11 PM |
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Mr. Ebner:
after reading your post again, I would like to thank you for being fair, & absolute genius in this matter.
I will keep your thoughts in mind, as we work through this paticular storm.
Thanks
BLT
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MedulusModerator  Veteran Member Posts:786
| 07/18/2007 11:10 PM |
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Thank you. I am humbled by your praise. Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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| 08/31/2007 1:41 AM |
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after working in NOLA as a contractor. We were told by our superiors to write up every Asbestos, Maxi slate, and Hardi slate up as a complete re-roof regardless of damage(one tile cracked or 100). Most were bought right away by adjusters that didnt know any better, the others went to mediation and appraisel and were all eventually totalled. I think we lost one to State Farm. Most all other Carriers bought every one a few days before going to mediation. State Farm was really the only one to put up a fight. I worked for Suburban Roofing in NOLA if it is of anyones concern.
Maxi, and Hardi are easy Totals. I wouldnt call Mr. Brooks a liar yet. the product and composition of product simply isnt made anymore. Matches can not be made. Asbestos is different. there are many bone-yards with the product available. It is the carriers job to find a similiar product. Once found they must determine if it is cost effective to re-roof or repair the home. Warranty, and color match is a contractor issue and not a concern of the carrier as stated in most policies.
when it comes to concrete tile...its concrete...it can be reproduced. The profile of the tile must be matched, but color again is not a concern of the carrier as stated in most policies. The next concern is...is it cheaper to make an exact replica of the tile for 30 pcs... or re-ridge the entire home with an existing concrete product? That is your job Mr. contractor... find out which one is cost effective.
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Ray Hall Senior Member Posts:2443
| 08/31/2007 3:54 PM |
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This is another scheme that the carriers should do some serious thinking about. The insurance restoration industry depends almost 100% of its income stream on "covered insurance losses". The contractors should have to be disqualified to do insurance work unless they have a water extraction department and a roofing replacement department.
Each department should have a seperate manager and seperate employees. On September 15, 2007 all employees should have to change departments. This would result in all the roof claims being repairable and all of the wet carpet claims would be a total R & R without water sucking attempts. This would result in billions of $$$ saved in one year.
**satire** ( may be moved to humor post) |
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butch sandersGuest Posts:39
| 09/03/2007 7:04 PM |
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I am glad I am not in the restoration industry.
We were reffered for the big Hardi Shake job, because we can handle extreme roofs.
I do not like insurance jobs. I promise you I can measure a roof with the best of them, and I know how many squares it takes to complete a roof. A waste factor of 12% is not enough for a roof with 27 hips. Fighting that 1 now. Should be 17% .
Nick the most cost effective solution would be to replace all ridge & rake, with a modern tile, all the same color. In one sentence you say the carrier should find a match, and in your last sentence you say it is my problem.
Once again be fair or be consistent.
See you in the field men, be careful.
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rbryanhines Member Posts:119
| 09/03/2007 11:05 PM |
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Tom you wrote "I can assure you, Mr. & Mrs. Insured are NOT going to replace their entire roof for thousands of dollars, they are going to find a way to patch the roof. Now, if they are not willing to spend thousands of dollars just to cure a color variance, why should the insurance company." While I understand your logic as it applies to color variance I feel this thought process leads to problems in claims handling.
The policyholder is not under contract to maintain or repair the house to a certain standard of construction. The policy does not state nor imply that the carrier only owes to repair in the same manner equal to that of the policy holder's.
I want to say that I have read many of your post and have respect for your Knowledge. I also want to be up front and say that I am involved in the restoration and consulting industry. I also from time to time still take IA commercial cat assignments.
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| 09/04/2007 11:22 AM |
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Most homeowners don't budget to replace their roof after a storm, surprise, they buy insurance with replace cost coverage (where available). Would I want different colors shingles on my roof, nope. There is a simple solution to the issue of color matching. Offer guarenteed exterior color match and charge a premium.
I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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| 09/04/2007 4:05 PM |
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I have worked claims in DFW and the surounding area for 15 years and I can tell you that Huffaker Roofing Company installed most of the Hardi Shake roofs and would have enough Hardi Shakes to do this small of a patch without replacing an entire roof. I would pay for replacing the damaged clay tile ridge pieces with tile that would fit the other pieces without regard for style or color.
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rbryanhinesMember Posts:119
| 09/04/2007 4:56 PM |
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"without regard for style or color" And as the Blue Collar Guys say "Now thats funny and I dont care who you are"!
Well I quess the policyholder won't find it too funny and thats why that attitude is a bad faith suit waiting to happen. |
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| 09/05/2007 3:32 AM |
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I have worked many hailstorms involving the Hard-Slate & Maxi-Slate roofing products & found the carriers I worked for generally replaced the roof with borderline hail damage, because of the lack of LKQ. The roof would definitely have a checkerboard effect due to the efflorescence inherent in the product. I live in the DFW area & found this to be the norm in handling the cat claims. That being said, a very good friend of mine bought a house in Colleyville that had Hardi-Slates on it. In the purchase process the house failed inspection due to some minor damage to the roof. He made a few calls & he found a roofer that repaired it by using Firefree Plus slates, which the roofer cut to the proper exposure. He told me a total of 35 slates were replaced for $700.00. You can patch a 3-tab roof, which will cause mismatched colors so it is the same for the cementious fiber products. Firefree is LKQ & is readily available. I also agree with the poster about there being surplus Hardi-Slates around. I know for a fact Brad Anderson Roofing has a supply of them, which he keeps for his warranty repairs. Most reputable roofing contractors bought a lot of the product once they knew the products were going off the market.
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rbryanhinesMember Posts:119
| 09/06/2007 9:25 AM |
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J Davis : I'm wondering does the "without regard for style or color" attitude apply to everything? What about flooring ,siding, wall finishes ect....? |
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| 09/06/2007 9:18 PM |
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Bryan Hines I want you to read your Texas Homeowner's Policy and address these questions with the the information you find in Section I concerning Loss Settlement. In the HOA it states - Our limit of liability and payment for covered losses will not exceed the smallest of the following: b. the cost to repair or replace the damaged property with material of like kind and quality.
In another poloicy that is being written in Texas it states 1. - we will pay only for the repair or replacement of the damaged part of the property with common construction techniques and materials and materials commonly used by building trades in standard new construction. We will not pay the cost to repair or replace obsolete, antique or custom construction with like kind and quality.
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rbryanhinesMember Posts:119
| 09/06/2007 11:26 PM |
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John not sure of your question. I have a good working knowledge of the policy. As to the policy that is now being written not sure who will purchase . With your logic if the carpet in the living area gets damaged just remove only the damaged portion replace "without regard for style or color" and your done.
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Ray HallSenior Member Posts:2443
| 09/07/2007 1:18 PM |
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We hear the word "indemnity" used by adjusters who do not understand the true meaning. Please read page 39 down at the right bottom of the page (3) The necessary amount actually spent to repair or replace the damaged building.
The loss settlement clause in the HO-3 is subject to all the conditions being met, and if they are met and the money has been spent, then indemnity is only accomplished by reinbursement. *
*Now read the direct loss wording in the paragraph (2) above. This brings you back to a adjustment problem for the definition of damages and commercial law for that state.
**The color match problem is not spelled out in the HO-3 or other property polices, and has been worked through by both parties for one hundred years using "reasonable man and pure indemnity principles". You could also settle these disputes using the pair and set language as a guide.(Although it does not apply to real property) |
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| 09/07/2007 2:41 PM |
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Bryan, in Texas as approved by the TDI carpeting damaged by a covered peril is replaced up to where a door would close and you would not be able to see the difference in the carpet. If there is enough damage to the siding all of it slhould be replaced. If only a small amount of siding is damaged on that side or elevation, that small amount of siding should be replaced and painting allowed to make that side match. If the wall finish is damaged I would allow to scrape and texture the damaged wall(s), then seal the newly textured wall(s) and the paint all of the walls - one coat if it is white and two coats if it is colored.
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Ray HallSenior Member Posts:2443
| 09/07/2007 6:04 PM |
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" We are a goverment of laws , not of men" . Rethink your post Mr. Davis and see if you followed the law of contracts and adjusted the water damaged room properly. |
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| 09/07/2007 7:09 PM |
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Ray Hall I want you to contact Crum & Forster, Farmers Insurance Group and State Farm and tell them I was taught wrong if you believe my post was wrong. I want you to call the Texas Department of Insurance if you believe I adjusted the covered peril damaged carpet wrong.
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rbryanhinesMember Posts:119
| 09/07/2007 7:47 PM |
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John
It seems you are inconsistent in your application of regard and disregard for style and color. One thing to keep in mind is that you may have been taught by Big Red and the farm boys but you are license by the state. I would be interested in the statute the state wrote concerning the way to adjust carpet.
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Ray HallSenior Member Posts:2443
| 09/08/2007 3:21 PM |
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This is not on point; however it seems to me the insurance carriers who require a certain brand of estimating software by Zip code updates and the brand "thats the accepted program by ALL the restoration contractors in the USA (not true) may be doing something deceptive. The way to clear the air would be an agreed scope and unit prices with the insureds or their contractors. |
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| 09/09/2007 6:00 PM |
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Ray, I did not address Bryan Hines loss as water damage as I did not recall him saying the damaged carpet was caused by that peril.
Bryan, the covered peril damaged carpeting that is damaged beyond repair would be replaced with like, kind and quality for all the rooms of damaged carpet up to where a door closes to where the difference could not be seen. If you know a company that will replace all of the carpeting in the house if only one room is damaged I would like to know what company that is. Ten years ago I heard from a contractor staing that Allstate would replace all of the carpeting if only one room was damaged.
Bryan have you ever been employed as a staff adjuster for a property and casualty company? I would suggest you call the TDI and asked them if the p&c company should pay for damaged carpeting beyond a closed door.
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