Tags - Popular | FAQ  

PrevPrev Go to previous topic
NextNext Go to next topic
Last Post 10/25/2009 8:46 PM by  Ray Hall
Like kind & quality
 55 Replies
Sort:
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Page 1 of 3123 > >>
Author Messages
butch sanders
Guest
Guest
Posts:39


--
07/01/2007 4:34 PM

    Is color taken into account, when roofing tile needs to be replaced ?

    I have a customer with a tile roof, that is no longer manufactured. All of the salvage yards have been searched, and the tile or accesories are not available.

    The carrier claims color doesn't matter, and suggest using a completely different product . Also they only want to replace 30 foot of  ridge. This means the homeowner will have 2 different types of ridge.

    I cannot warranty a repair like this, and it will look horrible.  I am roofing contractor.

    My suggestion was the carrier should replace all of the ridge & rake, and I can make the field tile work. They are not interested in any negotiation.

    I have my work than I can handle, 98% of my work is new construction. I do not like insurance claims becuse of  problems like these. But i really cannot just bail out on this Lady.

    Tags: Popular
    0
    claims_ray
    Member
    Member
    Posts:293


    --
    07/01/2007 11:17 PM
    The insurance company is not responsible for warranties, that is between you and the homeowner. There are paints out there for use with roofing tiles so that color should not be an issue.
    0
    butch sanders
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:39


    --
    07/02/2007 7:34 AM
    The problem with the tile, is the profile. The tile on this house is Monier Monray, from the 80's.
    The new choices are not even close. So should the homeowner just accept that she is being asked by the carrier, to use a product not made for her roof ? Warranty is an issue. The "adjuster claims you can use any ridge tile. OK, so I install a ridge that doesnt fit, it leaks, who is responsible for that ?
    0
    claims_ray
    Member
    Member
    Posts:293


    --
    07/02/2007 12:23 PM
    As it was told to you on your other posting on this subject if it was made by man it can be found, or duplicated. I do not recall the name of the company but there is a roofing tile company that will match tiles for people, however they do have a minimum.
    Your original post you state that it would look horrible and not that the product would not work in relation to the original tiles. If you cannot perform the task then do not accept it. Let the insured find a more capable contractor. Yes, I am suggesting that if you install a ridge that doesn't fit and leaks then you are responsible. If you do not guaranty it with the insured then they are responsible.
    0
    butch sanders
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:39


    --
    07/02/2007 8:33 PM
    we install more slate, clay & concrete tile than any contractor in Texas.
    so i am not sure whom is more capable, and i also know what will work.
    the company in question would charge tons more than it would take, just to replace the 200 foot on the house.
    i also have been called by 3 carriers, to give a fair estimate on R&R of tile roofing in the D/FW area. did all of the estimates, gratis. we are all in this together, to help the homeowners who do not do this everyday.
    i am just dealing with a couple of staff people who are being instructed to half - A this project.
    i respect y'alls opinion.
    0
    sbeau4014
    Founding Member
    Member
    Member
    Posts:427


    --
    07/02/2007 10:03 PM
    Brooks, what roofing co are you with? I worked the hail there 03 and the tornado in 2000, and had a fair amount of dealings with various roofers, some good and some not. Just curious what company you are with as it appears it is one of the biggys.
    0
    butch sanders
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:39


    --
    07/02/2007 10:47 PM

    www.ramonroofing.com
    we would not be a major player after storms. mainly work for friends and family.
    our company only has 6 full time employees , but we work our a$$ off.

    A side note, our company didnt have the oppoutunity to bid the projects i scoped.

    0
    vallerih
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:17


    --
    07/03/2007 1:33 PM

    I would think that if a close match cannot be found or remanufactured, that the insured has a legitimate complaint. Most of the carriers have their own take on this and many states have unfair claims practice laws on the books that cover this as well. I cannot comment on Texas, but Ohio Unfair Claims Practices indicate that you cannot just replace a portion of damaged property leaving it in a state that the overall value will be reduced.  Thats why we end up replacing entire groupings of cabinets. When I work with Big Red, they will replace any slopes that will be visible to the eye while standing in any one place due to matching issues. In any event, I don't believe it is a roofer's battle to fight, it is up to the insured and his carrier or the department of insurance. If I were a contractor and didn't feel comfortable with how a repair was dictated to me, I certainly would not take the job.

    0
    butch sanders
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:39


    --
    07/04/2007 2:31 PM
    that is a good point about the home losing value.
    i know that if they sell the home, when the inspector comes out, they will want the mismatched tile replaced.
    i know it is not my battle, but this lady needs help.
    and her carrier is not helping her.
    0
    Tim Wieneke
    Member
    Member
    Posts:92


    --
    07/14/2007 8:51 PM
    Sounds like a matching vs. physical damage direct issue. I haven't adjusted in Texas so I wouldn't know the answer but this may help you get started towards your answer. Does the state cover matching or direct physical damage only?
    0
    butch sanders
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:39


    --
    07/15/2007 2:06 PM
    The carrier claims color & a different profile do not constitute LK&Q.
    Allstate says damaged pieces only.
    I am working on a different project, ( Hardi Shake) where 6 tiles were broken by a branch, & the whole roof was totaled. The roof will cost $80, K to replace.
    Just looking for some consitency.
    0
    Ray Hall
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Posts:2443


    --
    07/15/2007 6:42 PM

    Mr. Todd Brooks how could you  be a successful roofer if you can not tell the truth. I think you should back up this $80,000. roof story with documents to prove you do not tell tall stories.Send the copies to the administrator to clear your name.

    0
    jlombardo
    Member
    Member
    Posts:145


    --
    07/16/2007 7:17 AM
    Ray,
    Be nice.........or at least....tactful...

    Joe
    0
    Tom Toll
    Moderator & Life Member
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Posts:1865


    --
    07/16/2007 2:45 PM

    Lets take insurance coverage out of the picture.

    Scenario, Mr. & Mrs. Insured have suffered damage to a few tiles on their roof. They attempt to find tiles that will match in color, so as not to have the house roof look like a checkerboard. They are not able to do this, as the tile manufacturer has gone out of business and they can find no tiles to match. I can assure you, Mr. & Mrs. Insured are NOT going to replace their entire roof for thousands of dollars, they are going to find a way to patch the roof. Now, if they are not willing to spend thousands of dollars just to cure a color variance, why should the insurance company. Lets have some intelligent comments on this, please.

    Brooks, it is the duty of the home inspector to determine structural integrity and code compliance on homes they inspect, not color variances of the exterior. That is a cosmetic issue, unrelated to structural integrity.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
    0
    HuskerCat
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:762


    --
    07/16/2007 9:58 PM

    Mismatched shingle colors are not all that out of the norm.  I have driven by new neighborhoods and noticed the patchwork colors that are very visible "by the square" on shingled roofs.  My sister's home is one of them, and they never noticed it until I mentioned it.  Now they see it, along with several of the neighbor's homes that were built around the same time.  That was 6 years ago!!!

    These are very obvious patches (a bundle or two at a time) that were installed and the color lot was off.  Generally, you can expect a difference here & there, but they will fade and blend.  None of these have.  And nobody noticed it...except somebody like me or you.  I now avoid this subject of conversation when going to the homes of relatives or friends.  They are much happier not knowing.

    0
    Medulus
    Moderator
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:786


    --
    07/17/2007 11:57 AM

    "The carrier claims color & a different profile do not constitute LK&Q. Allstate says damaged pieces only. I am working on a different project, ( Hardi Shake) where 6 tiles were broken by a branch, & the whole roof was totaled. The roof will cost $80, K to replace. Just looking for some consitency. " --Brooks Todd

    You may not really be looking for consistency here, because the consistency would likely be that the roof with six damaged tiles would likely not be replaced at a cost of $80,000. I would certainly not make that judgement call, if there is not more to the story than that. But this does serve to point out an important fact. I can't tell from your post whether the 80K roof is insured by the same insurance carrier as the residential roof that is the subject of this thread. If it is the same carrier, there should be an attempt to apply the same standards on every claim, regardless of the insured. Most carriers do try to apply the same rules to all their claims, but different examiners and adjusters may make different judgement calls. If you are not dealing with the same carrier on both losses, then there would be no expectation that they would act consistently with each other. Insurance companies, contrary to media portrayals, do not actually get together and decide on a unified course of action or set of claim handling procedures. "Big Insurance" is not monolithic. Some have stricter standards than others. In fact, if insurance companies were to meet with each other and decide that they would all handle claims the same, the media would crucify them. There would be a great hew and cry from the plaintiff's bar, as well. There would be allegations of price fixing, money grabbing, and collusion to defraud the public. Come to think of it, those allegations are already made even though there is no attempt to develop unified standards. Already there is the tendency to lump all insurance companies together, even though some are mutual companies owned by the policyholder, some are stock companies, owned by stock holders, some are alien insurers with headquarters in other countries, and some are non-admitted companies that sell only to those who can obtain insurance from no other source.
    This issue of what constitutes like kind and quality is certainly an important issue for this community to consider. I doubt, however, that you will get anywhere on a particular claim by consulting us. The authority for settling the particular claim to which you refer in the original post on this thread lies firmly with the carrier on that claim and the individual policyholder involved. It's actually a good thing that you are willing to go to bat for one of your potential customers, but they may need to invoke the appraisal clause of their policy if they are not satisfied with the carrier's decision and have not been able to convince a supervisor to reverse the original decision.

    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
    0
    Ray Hall
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Posts:2443


    --
    07/17/2007 3:28 PM

    The problem is called an adjustment problem in most insurance claim departments. It comes up on auto's that will" never be the same" ( first and 3rd party), and most carriers will adopt some rule such as if the repair cost equals 75% of the "book" price the auto will be totaled and the title stamped "salvage" for new owners to beware. Flood waters over the dash board the same.

    Its not written in stone but SOME carriers will do the same with roof claim cost to repair exceed a percentage as low as 51% of  R & R cost.

    In a "problem" roof claim I have NEVER seen a ridge replacement and 6 field shingle total out a roof.  I have seen very few tile roofs and ridges with 15-20 years of age that did not have evidence of miss matched color or profile shingles. I can not believe the carrier did not demand "appraisal" on the 80K roof. If it did go to appraisal and the award was $80K. The umpire was a homer and the appriaser was a light weight.

    0
    butch sanders
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:39


    --
    07/17/2007 10:42 PM
    Mr. Hall :
    come on out to Fort Worth & I will show you the roof. That is the problem in dealing with calims adjusters. Guys like you know more than the installers. I am trying to not get involved in a long drawn out thing for either party. You CANNOT get 22" Maxi Slate anymore. I am sure the adjuster that was sent out was staff, and the insured is something else. Come on down & I will "clear my name" . The only way to repair the totaled roof, is with wood shake. $2 mill home, I dont think so.
    Once again, I am just reporting what I see. We have more work than we can take, but if you actually care, it matters.

    Mr. Kunze : If you have mismatched bundles, that is a Mfg. defect. Elk Corp, ( or GAF now) has replaced roofs because of this problem. You do not blend composition, you do blend synthetic, or natural tile.

    I have seen 2 different Nationwide adjusters, fail & pay for 2 roofs on the same street. Same damage.

    Mr. Ebner :
    Thanks. My goal is to have proffesionals, not fighting over these claims.
    My best scenario, would be for the insured to never call me again, and for the carrier to pay the $10K it cost to replace the ridge & rake.
    The 1st adjuster to come out, didn't even know the diffrece in the trim pieces.
    Just so you know, my company would make around $ 2,000 for this repair. My commision about $480. It is not worth the time I have spent so far, nor in the future.

    "Appraiser a light weight" to me that just seems like carrier vs. insured. That is not what interpretitng policy is all about.

    I wish I did not give an S.
    Thanks for y'alls input.
    Brooks
    I really appreciate the thoughts.
    0
    HuskerCat
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:762


    --
    07/18/2007 1:45 AM

    The only point I was making was that "mis-matches" are common and usually not noticed, or not a big deal... at least here in the Midwest anyway.  That does not happen in Cat losses, I understand.  You would be surprised that the farmers and smalltown folk here in the Midwest are very aware of the impact of insurance claims made.   We have had storms around here after Katrina/Rita/Wilma, and the independents as well as the staff adjusters will tell you that claims-made are way,way down.  

    0
    butch sanders
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:39


    --
    07/18/2007 8:42 AM
    Point taken Sir.
    This is a mess I would not like to be involved in. Too late now.
    0
    You are not authorized to post a reply.
    Page 1 of 3123 > >>


    These Forums are dedicated to discussion of Claims Adjusting.

    For the benefit of the community and to protect the integrity of the ecosystem, please observe the following posting guidelines: 
    • No Advertising. 
    • No vendor trolling / poaching. If someone posts about a vendor issue, allow the vendor or others to respond. Any post that looks like trolling / poaching will be removed.
    • No Flaming or Trolling.
    • No Profanity, Racism, or Prejudice.
    • Terms of Use Apply

      Site Moderators have the final word on approving / removing a thread or post or comment.