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Last Post 06/07/2007 12:14 AM by  spierce
Pay scale Question
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Greg954
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05/27/2007 4:40 PM

    Hello All,

     

    I am new to adjusting.  What is the typical fee per claim?  If any of you could break down the pay structure I would appreciate it so I know what to look for while interviewing companies.

     

    Thanks!

     

     

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    margar1
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    05/28/2007 1:04 AM

    Ask the vendors you are applying with to provide you with a copy of their contract fee schedules. If you are new be willing to work for a bucket of chicken if given the chance.

    Mark S Garland
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    cantonking
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    05/29/2007 1:08 AM

    Greg,

    Do I understand right? You are going to interview companies???? Make sure to hold out for the 70% split with no hold back. Split fee only and not milage or photos.

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    Medulus
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    05/29/2007 10:36 AM

    My perspective might be a little different from some because most of my work has for many years been done for GAB Robins.  Though they are not the only vendor for which I work, they are usually the first to call me and the most consistent in providing me with opportunities whether there is a catastrophe or they simply need branch assist or daily work.  I say this not to recommend that you sign up with GAB.  Actually, I find that inexperienced adjusters have a difficult time breaking into the GAB team, let alone becoming part of the "A list" who are called out first and most.

    Because GAB has agreements with hundreds of companies, the fee schedule varies widely depending on the carrier for which the work is being done.  Some carriers refuse to pay for photos; some have excessive amounts of free mileage included in their agreements with the vendor. 

    In other words, from my perspective, there is no simple answer to your question.  There are many variables.  What may seem like a good fee schedule on its face may not be so good when you discover the hundred hoops the carrier expects you to jump through in order to earn your fee.  What may seem like a lousy fee schedule may be better than it looks because the carrier only wants an appraisal and photos and you never hear from them again.  Also, fee schedules may change dramatically and suddenly when a catastrophe occurs. 

    I would look at the base fee numbers, the percentage of that fee that is provided to the adjuster, the amount of free miles and photos included in the fee, the track record of the company when it comes to paying its adjusters, and the availability of work.  Cash flow is also a consideration.  Does the company pay you within two weeks of when you turn in the file or does it pay you when they get paid?  My suggestion is that you develop at least an online relationship with an experienced adjuster that can let you know whether an opportunity sounds good or not.  I would offer myself, but I already am mentoring others at the current time and don't have any available time to add mentoring anyone else.

    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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    Ray Hall
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    05/29/2007 4:14 PM

    I have been told one of the largest Homeowners Carrier,s and one of the largest vendor,s calls out enough adjusters for each person to get 60 files. This would be about 10 to 14 days work for roof claims.  If you averaged $200 gross per claim your part  take your income tax and gas/living expense of 50% you should clear about $600 per day for 10 days or $429. per day for 14.

    You must be very frugal on gas consumption, place to live and meals.

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    katadj
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    05/31/2007 2:46 PM
    With all the disappointment of ’06 with respect to hurricanes and tropical storms, and with many adjusters holding down the fort by reverting to prior employment, living off savings, working at differing occupations, it is no wonder that we all have a similar question or expectation at hand.
     
    Will 007 be like ’04 and ’05 or will we be relegated to where we are due to ’06?
     
    There are as many forecasts and predictions out there as there are meteorologists and risk managers and naysayers and procrastinators and prestigitators. In other words, NO ONE KNOWS.
     
    What we do know is that IF there is an impending occurrence, we will be inundated with telephone calls and emails asking if we are available to be put on stand-by.
     
    What exactly does this mean? Well for some it means they know that their phone is working. For others it means they have a company that has their name listed in their data base, or they have had their name gleaned from a website such as CADO, ClaimSmentor or another site.

     
    Yet, for others it means they have a guarantee of being put to work by the firm that called them, IF they choose to go that route. It is not unusual for one to receive as many as 10-15-20 calls to be put on stand by. This has happed to me, many times.
     
    For the newer adjuster, there are some things that you should know before committing to anyone to actually accept a position, they are as follows, not necessarily in order of importance.
     
    1)      Who is the IA Firm? An older established inter-national firm? (For instance, GAB, Crawford, THG, and Cunningham-Lindsey. A larger regional or national firm? (Such as Pilot, Ebrel, Renfrow,Worley) A well established franchised or smaller regional firm? (Custard, Frontier, FARA, and many of the ones listed on the CADO roster of vendors. These all have ratings established by people that have worked for them and have posted their opinions, it is worthwhile to investigate these posts. A start up company that has little financial backing, or catastrophe loss experience? (It’s not fair to render an opinion in this venue, so look and learn for yourselves.)
     
    2)      Is there a guarantee of the initial amount of files?  Some will say that they are waiting on the carrier to determine the amount of files and will not give an answer. Others will give you some idea of how many files you will be given. To travel a long distance 1000-3000 miles at your expense to receive 20 files that net you 2000.00 or so dollars is a real fool’s errand. Make sure your expenses are covered. Some IA firms and carriers guarantee you a daily stipend to show up and pay you to stay there until the files arrive and are distributed. (It does happen)
     
     
    3)      What is the fee schedule? Each firm has a certain fee schedule arrangement in their catastrophe schedule. It may vary from one fee for TS to a cat 2-3 and then change for a Cat 4-5. It is paramount that you get a copy of the schedule BEFORE you leave for the loss assignment location.
     
    4)      What percentage % of the fee schedule are they willing to pay YOU? The fee schedules change from IA firm to firm and from carrier positions also. They can vary, for the adjuster in charge, from 50% to 75% depending on the quality of the adjuster, the work product presented, the work history of the adjuster, the productivity of the adjuster, the talent and versatility of the adjuster, and other related items, such as photos, proper documentation, explanation of conditions, location of the loss and cost differentials required to return the loss to the pre-loss conditions. The interpretations of the policy, policy knowledge and application there-of. So, you see, there are many factors involved in the assignment of claims as the acceptance of claims. The absolute worst thing one can do is to take a claim that is way over your head and will not be adjusted correctly, and may end up in a legal beagle courtroom. It is much better to return the claim to the IA firm and most likely they will replace it with not one but two or more.
     
    5)      Who are the carriers the IA firm represents? This can be important in rendering a decision as to whom to work for. Some carriers opt to align themselves with staunch and reputable vendors, while others can only get an emergency workforce from what may be referred to as lower tier vendors. Also, the claims settlement practices of some carriers just goes against what we all are taught and expect to be able to provide. Each and every carrier has their own way of adjusting claims, and it is not within our purview to do anything but follow their directives. The golden rule applies here, “He who has the gold, makes the rules”
     
    6)      Under which format will you be employed? Most of the catastrophe adjusters work as independent contractors and are paid weekly or bi-weekly. These are referred to as 1099 employees in that they have to be responsible for all of their own state, federal, & local taxes, SS and Insurances. There are strict Federal guidelines which must be adhered to for you be a true 1099 employee and you should investigate what they are. The next classification is a temporary employee in that you are provided E&O insurance, workmen’s compensation insurance, but none of the benefit packages of the true employee. Then we have the employee, who is afforded the same insurance coverage as a normal employee and has taxes taken out and is supplied with a W-2 at the end of the year. It is very important to determine your status, as many items which can be deductible as a 1099 are not allowed as a temp or other employee. Check with your accountant as to which way is best for you.
     
     
     
    7)      What amount of the additional charges, levied to the carrier, will be paid to you? In days of old there were always added charges to a file, photographs, mileage, telephone calls, postage costs, etc. These were normally paid to the individual that incurred these costs. Things change, as we moved from 35MM film and processing to digital photographs, some felt that digitals cost nothing. Well, that’s their opinion. What does the camera, paper, ink, printer and time element cost, nothing? hardly. Then there’s the mileage factor, where we now pay 100-200 % more for fuel that we did years ago. Some of the IA firms and or Carriers still pay a small portion of the incurred costs. Others will pay you a percentage % of these costs, just as they do your percentage % of the fee schedule. In other words, you are absorbing 100% of the costs and getting back anywhere from zero to 75% under these options. Be careful, ask the right questions, and make sure you fully understand what and when you will be paid.
     
     
    There are a few questions that are always should be asked when called for stand-by or deployment.

    A)    Who are the carriers? Refer to above.
     
    B)    What is the fee schedule, please fax or email to me. Information Please.
     
    C)    What is my percentage of the fee schedule? This can have a serious impact on your decision. 60% of $100.00 is $60.00, however 75% of $80.00 is also $60.00 and yet 70% of the same $100.00 is $70.00. So, it is simple arithmetic folks. Know what the schedule is and your percentage of the add-ons and you will have all the information you need to make an informed decision.
     
    D)    Who is the storm manager? This can become an all-important part of your decision. We all have had experiences that we would never again wish to have. Sometimes these relate directly to the storm boss and his way of handling the files. Does he/she play favorites; do they critique your files correctly and assist in getting them approved? Do they issue kick-backs indiscriminately? Are their file examiners proficient, experienced and knowledgeable, or are they just have-to-have people that we spend hours educating? Real time consuming to have to re-do files several times for no apparent reason or risk being at the whim of a bad hair day, IYGMM.
     
    E)     If a new company, get references. Many times there are numerous start-up companies. You should check on them, if they are listed on CADO, or you can make calls to adjuster friends and acquaintances, or check the BBB
     
    F)     Get a copy of their Contract which they will wish you to sign. Make sure you get a copy of anything that you sign, it’s just a good business practice. As with every claim, treat every employment opportunity as if it may go to court. The more ammo in your weapon, the better chance you will have to survive.
     
     
    This is just a basic guideline for the newer adjusters, and perhaps some who have crossed over from the staff side and others who have not thought of some of these items. It never hurts to be a Boy/Girl scout and believe in their motto: “BE PREPARED”
     
     
     
    Copyright ©2007 R .D. Hood
    "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new... Albert Einstein"
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    Dimechimes
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    06/01/2007 1:16 PM

    Dave those are excellent recommendations for accepting assignments. We cover those same instructions in our ClaimSmentor Fundamentals of Claims class.

    A few additional comments folks should consider:

    Many of the contracts we are seeing this year have incorporated language about :

    A) Charge back fees to adjusters that the adjusting firms will charge the adjuster if they have to handle a reopen or reinspection on their file. The ones I've seen thus far do not spell out what those fees are going to be. Are you willing to work under those terms? One we saw shows "incurred expenses" will be charged to the adjuster and others just show that the fees will be charged.

    This is a word of caution to make sure you get some written figures on those charges before you agree to such terms. For instance, look at the posting on the Citizens of FL 2007 manual and you will see fines up to $1,000 per file charged to the adjusting firm for various reasons. Will those be passed on to you?

    B) Regarding the advice to get a copy of the contract BEFORE you leave for assignment, I also caution you to be sure to get a copy of the contract once you have signed it and the adjusting firm AUTHORIZED representative has signed it.

    Last year I received a large number of calls from adjusters who did not get paid on claims(they were looking for new assignments). When asked if they pursued litigation,etc they advised they could not get an attorney to take the case because they did NOT have a copy of the signed contract. They had arrived at induction centers and were told they would be given copies later which never arrived. We suggest to adjusters that they print out 2 copies of the contract sent to them BEFORE they depart from home and sign both and ask the AUTHORIZED representative of the firm to sign both thus you aren't stuck in the position of not having a signed contract if they don't have time to make copies or no copy facilities are yet up and running at the cat induction centers. You then keep a copy and they can keep the other. If anyone knows of a problem doing so, please post.

    C) Make sure you know who the person is signing it on behalf of the adjusting firm. We had an incident reported last year where a firm would not deal with unpaid adjuster fee bills alleging that the individual with their firm who gave out contracts and had them signed was not a management person with their firm nor did they have authority to sign independent contracts. Apparently, the individual used a copy of the contract he was given to bring in some assistants to help him then moved the files to his/her own name(just had them pdf him their work product). They were not paid for months worth of work the adjuster uploaded in his own name.

    I continue to be amazed at some of the issues adjusters face with assignments/contracts.

    There is another side to the story. You touched on the fact that adjusters receive standby calls from multiple adjusting firms. You would be amazed at what the "no show" rate is of adjusters agreeing to activation then not showing up as they accepted a different assignment by the next firm/firms calling who had higher fee schedules. They tell everyone yes then show up at the one with the best offer after they get done "fee schedule" shopping. This will catch up with these adjusters who are removed from vendors lists for not showing up. This puts the adjusting firm in a very bad position with the carriers they have contracted with. In many cases, the carriers start assigning files to those the adjusting firm has told them are activated and on their way. Not only do the carriers have to reassign the files to replacement adjusters, but insureds have been given out multiple names when they call in on the status of the inspection as these files are moved to adjusters who did report in. Please don't bruise the reputation of the Independent adjusting community by accepting deployment activations from one firm then not showing up.
    Adjuster ethics are very important. Be courteous to the firms who activate you. If you are not going, let them know in advance.

    During the course of staffing for some vendors, this issue has come up. Someone who has a great background cannot be accepted as the firm has a record of prior "no shows" on their part. They don't take this lightly. You can cost them clients(carriers) by such activities.

    Visit our Adjusters Information Blog
    www.dimechimes.wordpress.com www.Linkedin.com/in/dimechimesclaimSmentor www.Twitter.com/ClaimSmentor www.ClaimSmentor.com
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    spierce
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    06/07/2007 12:14 AM

    The real key to making real money in a hurricane is to work for multiple companies at the same time.  Work your butt off and make sure they do not find out what your doing.  Ive seen that done and seen the money that can be made doing it.  Make your money when you can.  Remember, most companies are not your "buddy" and especially if your new they will not be calling in slow times.  I promise.  Make your money when the opportunity is there.  Kill it while the work is there, then when its gone you can relax.  Work it when its there, plenty  of time for sleep during 2006 seasons

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