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Last Post 01/15/2013 7:18 PM by  AcceleratedAdjuster
Adjuster Rights....
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AdhusterForAll
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01/09/2013 7:57 PM

    Hello fellow adjusters,

    I have been adjusting for over 25 years and have seen a increase in workload without any increase in compensation.
    Not to mention the complete disregard for you as a person and adjuster.
    Your safety is being completely disregarded and it's all about profit to the claims company and carriers you are working for.
    I feel it is time to set some things straight in our industry and stop being taken advantage of by standing together.
    If you have been in this business for any length of time you cannot ignore the validity of what I am saying. I have always been an independent thinking individual but now know that I jeopardize the well being of my family by starting this thread, therefore I have chosen to remain anonymous. I recommend starting another name and email address so you may post on this thread without worry of being blacklisted. There will be a Association starting soon and I will keep this thread posted on its progress as we move forward. I am doing this to protect you and your fellow adjuster from the Nazi like treatment by several claims companies. I am not mad nor am I looking for money, what I am looking for is some protection and stability for us as adjusters, and not to fear everyday when deployed may be your last. We as CAT adjusters are supposed to  COMMIT, which we do. Now wheres the commitment from the other side I ask.
    I have seen so many people disillusioned and brought into a storm that have improper training only to fail and actually lose thousands of dollars by not knowing there rrole as an adjuster from the lack of support from the company which has hired them.
    I have heard it from all adjusters seasoned as well as rookies, and now its time to do something. Act now and post your thoughts it is time to take a stand.
    There will be stories from the field soon...

    Thank you and God Bless

    Joe Adjuster

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    olderthendirt
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    01/10/2013 11:10 PM
    Good luck getting this pig headed group of independent thinking individualists to stand together. It has been tried before. It is the nature of the business that has attracted this kind of person. Mind you I am not sure cat adjustering as I have known it will survive, so maybe one of these times it will work.
    Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it depends on what you put in it
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    CatAdjusterX
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    Posts:964


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    01/11/2013 12:51 AM
    Posted By adjusterforall@gmail.com on 09 Jan 2013 07:57 PM

    Hello fellow adjusters,

    I have been adjusting for over 25 years and have seen a increase in workload without any increase in compensation.
    Not to mention the complete disregard for you as a person and adjuster.
    Your safety is being completely disregarded and it's all about profit to the claims company and carriers you are working for.
    I feel it is time to set some things straight in our industry and stop being taken advantage of by standing together.
    If you have been in this business for any length of time you cannot ignore the validity of what I am saying. I have always been an independent thinking individual but now know that I jeopardize the well being of my family by starting this thread, therefore I have chosen to remain anonymous. I recommend starting another name and email address so you may post on this thread without worry of being blacklisted. There will be a Association starting soon and I will keep this thread posted on its progress as we move forward. I am doing this to protect you and your fellow adjuster from the Nazi like treatment by several claims companies. I am not mad nor am I looking for money, what I am looking for is some protection and stability for us as adjusters, and not to fear everyday when deployed may be your last. We as CAT adjusters are supposed to  COMMIT, which we do. Now wheres the commitment from the other side I ask.
    I have seen so many people disillusioned and brought into a storm that have improper training only to fail and actually lose thousands of dollars by not knowing there rrole as an adjuster from the lack of support from the company which has hired them.
    I have heard it from all adjusters seasoned as well as rookies, and now its time to do something. Act now and post your thoughts it is time to take a stand.
    There will be stories from the field soon...

    Thank you and God Bless

    Joe Adjuster

    .................................................

     

    Mr. anonymous poster,

    I will agree there are issues that DO need to be addressed with carriers and the IA firms they employ.

    Nevertheless, please see your words below:

    I have seen so many people disillusioned and brought into a storm that have improper training only to fail and actually lose thousands of dollars by not knowing there rrole(sic) as an adjuster from the lack of support from the company which has hired them.

    Well I have seen the same folks lose thousands of dollars and yes "IMPROPER" training as well. However, it is my opinion that this has MUCH more to do with the "predatory" training vendors (not all vendors are predatory) who are putting on dog and pony shows and giving these folks the false belief that after a 3 day course they are ready to deploy.

    I see MANY of my own members (rookie adjusters) accept a deployment long before they are ready. I/we cannot blame them, they are caught up in the excitement and when a claims manager contacts them about deploying, many will overstate their grasp of the fundamentals of the preferred estimating software (in the CAT industry we are talking about XM8)when a standby notification goes to a Go Order. Almost without fail, these very folks get buried on the reporting side, and to compensate they scope all their claims and then try to write them up all at once. They are embarrassed to ask their team lead or claims manager for help,"on something they claimed to already be an expert in... (XM8)"

    The above is just one issue, but an issue that is FAR TOO COMMON and IS the single most reported reason for failure on a deployment amongst the newly licensed and/or those on their first deployment.

    What I do have a BIG problem with is that carriers and IA firms are deploying folks before storms have even made landfall. Sandy made landfall on 29 October 2012. Many of my members were given deployment orders as early as the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of November. Why? Most folks weren't even able to get back to their homes to even know if they had any damage, let alone file an insurance claim. Most members sat on their own dime for a week, 10 days before getting even claim one. Some firms paid folks a day rate to sit, yet most didn't. Some firms after a week or so ended up being told sorry we didn't get the volume expected thanks but you are NOT needed and goodbye. Some were given a few bucks but most got zero zip nada.

    Your words below:
    I have been adjusting for over 25 years and have seen a increase in workload without any increase in compensation.

    First things first, kudos to you for your 25 years in OUR industry. I can ONLY imagine how many changes you have seen in that time.

    One thing I may disagree with is that "OUR" workload has increased over the last few years. Maybe a bit of clarification would help me understand your point better. I say this because the majority of my members (whether newly licensed or veterans of OUR industry) often lament on the days of having 6 months to a year's worth of files are long gone. Nowadays as with what we are seeing with Isaac and Sandy, long term deployments are becoming a rare animal. Most of my members (newly licensed/experienced alike) are already wrapped up with their deployments. Make no mistake, our uber experienced hands are now working cleanup and litigated and/or PA rep'd claims and we foresee a lengthy and dare I say...a profitable deployment (Gross earnings- expenses=???.)

    The reduction in fee schedules is consistent with the laws of supply and demand and is what it is. As of this moment we are heavily saturated and bottom heavy with claims adjusters with minimal to no experience.

    I think you would agree that adjusting today's claims is vastly different from adjusting claims of the past. With the dramatic leaps and bounds of technology within the claims industry, it is now entirely possible to handle the entire risk: assessment/inspection/reporting with nothing but a smartphone. It is a tough sell to any carrier/vendor to justify an increase in fee schedules. Our industry is no different than any other as it relates toward advances with emerging technology. From the late 40's/50s/60s/70s/80s, an auto worker working for General Motors on the assembly line living in Detroit Michigan was assured either out of high school or after returning from military service a job with a livable wage sufficient to support a family for 30+ years until they retire. Today? Not so much. Almost 80% of the work on an assembly line is now automated.

    I would like to ask you for your opinion on what could WE do to increase tomorrow's fee schedule and justify said increase?

    Your words below:

    Your safety is being completely disregarded and it's all about profit to the claims company and carriers you are working for.

    Let me address the obvious first. In regard to profits, YES INDEED it is all about profits for the carrier as well as the vendor. We must not forget that the carrier/IA firm is NOT in business to provide you me your family and mine the compensation necessary to sustain living from day to day month to month and year to year. The carrier/IA firm like ANY for profit entity, exists to make....a profit.

    Now the safety aspect. On 26 October 2009, I was working on a re-inspection with the PA rep'd insured in California arising from the California wildfires in 2007/2009. My ladder wasn't tall enough to safely ascend. Rather than rescheduling the reinspect (for a longer ladder/steep/tall roof team) I chose to use the PA's ladder (which also wasn't tall enough) which was close to vertical. With someone bracing the bottom and someone bracing mid length from a 2nd story window, the ONLY thing more ridiculous than THAT setup was the FOOL (me) that made the climb. Myself and the PA ascended the ladder with no trouble. As we descended the ladder, the PA went first. As he stepped off I stepped on. At the same moment, both the individuals bracing the bottom and mid-length of said ladder inexplicably let go. I tipped the ladder. I fell upon a 4 ft high chain link fence. I broke my leg broke my pelvis, 4 ribs broken jaw and fractured my skull.

    Nevertheless, I have NEVER been forced to climb any ladder or access ANY roof if I wasn't comfortable. In regard to my members, I have never had even one tell me they were forced to make a climb if they weren't comfortable. We now can fall back on steep/tall roof teams/ladder assists/Satellite or pictometry technology and again, I have never had even one of my members tell me they were denied such an alternative.

    This association you are speaking of, I am fairly certain as with most associations that there will be a significant membership fee associated with said association (pun intended LOL). Of course you are free to do as you wish. Nevertheless, if there is a fee involved, advertising and soliciting for members within CADO's forums isn't appropriate.

    Make NO mistake, to create something for the benefit of ALL adjusters is something I applaud and I wish you all the best.

    What issues do you seek to address?

    I have a passion for helping the next generation of claims adjusters and to give them a voice and to do what I can to protect them from predatory vendors and a host of issues



    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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    K ung Fu tzu
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    01/11/2013 7:52 AM
    Interesting post.

    Haven't 'associations' already been formed? In the form of companies like Claims Adjuster 411 and Associated Adjusters Network? Where the end user adjuster doesn't actually work off the fee schedule from the carrier, but from a revised fee schedule that has been watered down at least twice? Newbies are jumping into these situations due to lack of work or not fully understanding how the industry works and end up working off a billing schedule of $35 hour/60%. And I'm not just picking those two companies out, there are plenty of others doing the same thing. There are adjusters working that aren't actually receiving 60%+/- of the fee bill. They are receiving 60%+/- of whatever percentage the TPA decides to use as there payment schedule. There is plenty of money being left on the table here.

    The problem for many of us, is that there are adjusters willing to work for these low amounts and are willing to work off the TPA's fee schedule and not the insurance carriers. Fee's and costs have gone up and many fee schedules have been increased over the years, there just seems to be a new method of not showing it to the IA.

    How do you get that group of adjusters to 'just say no'?
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    Tex Walker
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    01/11/2013 9:52 PM
    Speak for yourself, I'll be here 6-12 months working Sandy claims. Fee schedules are just fine where I'm at.
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    PSR
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    01/12/2013 9:14 AM
    I get a salary, benefits, PTO, bonuses, storm pay.

    I'm good.

    Thanks for offering though.
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    okclarryd
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    01/12/2013 11:32 AM

    There's several positions and ideas here that need some conversation.

    There's a large number of inexperienced adjusters and fewer and fewer experienced adjusters because we (the experienced adjusters) simply got fed up with the fee schedules being the same no matter your experience or qualifications.  I have always thought that the adjuster that could probably carry a GA designation should be paid at a different schedule than someone just out of school.  But, not so. 

    And, the file requirements have gone up, the computer programs are much more complex, time spent in front of a computer rather than working claims in the field, tighter and tighter controls on what is and is not allowed on an estimate, the list just goes on and on and on.

    And the fee schedules either stay the same (for the last 10 years or so) or actually go down.

    I don't think so.  I'll move on down the path and find something that is not so frustrating.  There's plenty of opportunities within the cat industry and/or the claims industry that have moved up their fees with the increased costs and are always looking for the guy or gal that simply does the job at hand and does it well.

    This is an endless discussion with many, many items of discussion and many more points of view.  The industry as a whole is changing, has changed, and will continue to change.  The days of the "three-line-estimate" are gone;  the days of a one paragraph closing report are gone;  the days of carrying checks and making face-to-face settlements are gone;  the days of a good, friendly rapport with your supervisor are gone;  and, sadly, the days of trust between the employer and employee seem to be gone as well.

    I'll get off my soapbox now and get back to my nap.

    Happy Trails

    Larry D Hardin
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    DStin214
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    01/14/2013 9:41 PM

         While I will agree with you that the industry has changed in a negative way, I don't necessarily feel that it warrants carrying picket signs while attempting to start a revolution.  There is a reason why most people only make a short career out of adjusting.  It is not always the easiest of jobs, which is why we are paid so well. Think about it, "If you are not willing to work under the current conditions and circumstances, then someone else gladly will!"  This is a very lucrative industry, and those of us who are blessed enough to have good mentors and a little bit of common sense, have the opportunity to provide generously for our families.  You, as well as anyone else who has worked as an independent adjuster for a descent amount of time, understand that the insurance adjusting industry is constantly changing.  This is something we all have to learn to constantly adapt to.  If we do not, then we will go by the wayside.  I empathize that the industry has made countless technological advances over the years, which is harder on the older generations than the younger ones (by requiring us to constantly learn new software, adjusting techniques and stay sharp on our education).

     

         While micromanagement can get very annoying/frustrating, you will have this at every job you work (regardless of the industry).  Many of the grievances that are experienced are brought upon adjusters with very little experience, or those who have issues with authority.  It is unfortunate that these grievances are shared with the rest of the community.  Just keep your chin up and CYA (cover your a$$).

    http://www.insurance-adjuster-help.com
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    AcceleratedAdjuster
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    01/15/2013 7:18 PM

    I see a lot of things wrong with the opening post.

    1st: Our safety is not being "disregarded". We as independents are responsible for our own safety. It is our job to determine if we need ropes or other safety equipment, and it is our job to call for a ladder assist or satellite imagery if it is determined to be unsafe.

    Next: I have worked with many claims companies and carriers over the years, and can safely say that I have certainly not been on the receiving end of any "nazi-like" treatment by claims companies or carriers. I can only infer from your statement that maybe you have a problem with a customer being specific about the work product that they expect, and would rather do it "your way".


    I really do not know what you hope to accomplish by attempting to get IA's to "stand together" for some as yet unspecified cause. Personally, when I land a new client, the only thing I wish to do is please the client with the quality and efficiency of my company. I can always walk away if I deem their behavior toward my firm or my adjusters to be inappropriate. No need to take some sort of "stand" against them.

    I think that maybe your problem after 25 years in the business, seeing increased responsibility and reporting requirements at the same time as seeing a declining fee schedule, is that you do not realize that there are more adjusters out there today than there were 25 years ago, and many are willing to do the same job (maybe even a better one, if you consider stringent reporting requirements to be "nazi" behavior) for less money. It is unfortunate that the fee schedules go down as a result, but such is the nature of competition: More providers = lower product cost.

    If you are truly to the point of being so jaded with your chosen career that you wish to bite the hand that feeds you, I would recommend changing careers or retiring, if that is possible. Take a break, do something else, and please don't try to get the rest of us to jump on your self destructive bandwagon.  

    www.acceleratedadjusting.com www.acceleratedadjustingisrael.com
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