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Last Post 10/07/2010 11:15 PM by ALANJ

subrogating against minors

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Leland

Advanced Member
Posts:741

10/06/2010 11:20 AM
If a kid spray paints the insured's house, do you send a subro demand addressed to the kid? or to the parents of the kid, or both? I know it is important to be cautious dealing with minors. I would not want to interview a minor without another neutral adult present. Same reason I don't go inside a home when the only person home is 16 years old. Anybody ever deal with this? Are the parents legally liable for the actions of the minor, ie could you legally sue the parents if neccesary? (depends on the state maybe?) I know in some cities of California the parents are made liable under city law but that is criminal law not civil, as far as I know. So the city can force the parents to pay for the grafitti but I don't know if the private party victim also has a right to recover. Some city out here just passed a law that the fine for graffiti is now $25,000.00. My wife work in social work a little bit and she said some familes are on a monthly court ordered payment plan to pay for their kids graffiti. So, has anybody successfully subrogated when the perpetrator was a minro? I am actually asking this question because it relates to a claim another adjuster is handling in the midwest. The kids have confessed. I never run into this in California. In Calif. we never catch anybody, so I've never had this come up, even though I have had many graffiti and vandalism claims.

Ray Hall

Senior Member
Posts:2443

10/06/2010 11:57 AM
You handle subrogation against the parents several ways. If the police report names the vandels this is the most important. Start with that fact if its a fact. Next check with the right criminal justice system to see if any charges are being filed. If you have these 2, you are about 50% complete. If the parents have any insurance (;like a Homeowners or Renters) then the major hurdle has been met.If all the known players do not have a pot or a window many carriers will not waste their time, if criminal justice does not push and the carrier can not offer probation for a first offense as part of the guilty plea, forget it. Did I ever say I have never seen subrogation pushed to the hilt in 50 years:UNLESS insurance is involved.

ChuckDeaton
Life Member

Senior Member
Posts:1110

10/06/2010 6:08 PM
Several young men vandalized a school in Arkansas. They were caught, charged and convicted in criminal court. The local school board decided that the young men would work off the cost of repairs and clean up by doing chores at the school. One of the young men filed suit in Federal Civil court and won. His rights were violated, not only did he not have to pay off the damages (subrogation) he received an award from the school board. My suggestion would be to let the desk examiner lead with a clear line of communication and instructions issued and followed. Be clear about coverage, scope and damages. It would be very easy to end up in a lawsuit. Overly aggressive pursuit or misdirected pursuit of subrogation, where a minor is involved, could result in unintended consequences. "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt

Ray Hall

Senior Member
Posts:2443

10/06/2010 7:00 PM
I know three adjusters who plead guilty to stealing 1/2 million dollars from an insurance company. All lost their license for 10 years in the criminal plea bargain and could not work as an adjuster. Was that the end of the story... nope as soon as they did not go to jail they filed suit for damages against the same insurance company. None of them worked for a long time, but I think all 3 are back in the biz. now. It seems you can not violate the 10 year "do not" clause; but unable to work is another matter. Be very careful when you talk suit is very good advise. Thew best of two worlds on subrogation is to find both belong to AF and the venue is proper.

Ray Hall

Senior Member
Posts:2443

10/06/2010 7:02 PM
I know three adjusters who plead guilty to stealing 1/2 million dollars from an insurance company. All lost their license for 10 years in the criminal plea bargain and could not work as an adjuster. Was that the end of the story... nope as soon as they did not go to jail they filed suit for damages against the same insurance company. None of them worked for a long time, but I think all 3 are back in the biz. now. It seems you can not violate the 10 year "do not" clause; but unable to work is another matter. Be very careful when you talk suit is very good advise. The best of two worlds on subrogation is to find both belong to AF and the venue is proper.

Tim_Johnson
Member

Member
Posts:243

10/06/2010 7:43 PM
I have been successful in the past on subro by sending the judge a check copy and a signed proof of loss and asking him / her to make restitution part of the sentence. They have never turned me down. All of these cases were on adults, not kids. They usually make them stay on probation until full restitution is paid Tim Johnson

ALANJ

Member
Posts:142

10/07/2010 11:15 PM
Don't even think of talking to a minor without a parent being present on a subro claim. Like everyones momma said "don't play with fire or you will get burned".

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