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Well, I checked the gauge at Home Depot, and only one of the seven shingle types I tested was close to its warranty width based on the gauge's prediction / standards. I was frankly quite surprised by this. The trend went in both directions - too thick or too thin for a reported life. Typically, the variability was that longer life shingles were thinner than they should have been, and shorter lived shingles were thicker. A 40 year shingle might have come in at 30 years, and a 20 year shingle was thicker than it should have been.

HD sells one-off shingles for repairs, so I went through all seven types they sell. The one shingle that matched was a 25 year three tab comp shingle (fiberglass I assume since they say that 95% of the asphalt shingles manufactured have fiberglass as a base as opposed to organic paper, but I was not willing to break off a corner to see if there were glass strands). But the other ones varied in both directions, and I tested several of the same shingle type to see if I had a lemon initially. Nope, the others were about the same width as the first sample of a shingle type. Dimensional shingles (the single tab part) were all much thicker than expected for their warranty length.

So, I have a few questions:

Do many people use this Haag gauge or something else to estimate a shingle’s warranty length? I had talked with people who recommended this gauge, but I am somewhat suspect now. The gauge might work based on the average of a review of many reported specifications from shingle manufacturers, but variability per manufacturing run might result in wide differences from average. It could also be that the manufacturers look more at the weight per square of the finished shingles as opposed to the thickness of a given batch of shingles for quality control purposes.  But 1 out of 7 is pretty dismal no matter what.

How do most people figure out warranty lengths from one shingle type to another? I could guess between a 20 and a 40 year shingle, but it’s kind of tough between a 25 or a 30 or a 30 and a 40. Most of the roofs I have worked on, I called a 30 year shingle, but I had never used a gauge before, and it was always a "wag". So, after today, I’m not sure the gauge answers the question for me.

I also do not know that I have ever worked with organic paper shingles since I do not have much experience in the northern part of the US.  How can you tell the difference in older roofs between fiberglass and organic paper shingles? I have looked at pictures, and I still am not too certain I can tell them apart, even if I broke off a corner of a fiberglass shingle, since the glass strands are not always visible.
 

Finally, does anybody have a definitive answer about the cellophane strips covering the adhesive?  Do they have to be pulled off for a roofer's warranty to be effective?  I have done some roof repairs, and these things are very difficult to remove, especially if it has been hot out.  I have heard that they are intended to dissolve  in the heat, and I have also heard that they are only for transportation and should be removed for a roof to be warrantied.  I have seen older roofs whereby the strips had not been removed, and the roof never sealed, and then I personally took about 1 minute on one shingle to remove all of the cellophane strip since it was so melted in.   Thanks.

Posted By RJortberg on 30 Jul 2009 08:33 PM

Finally, does anybody have a definitive answer about the cellophane strips covering the adhesive?  Do they have to be pulled off for a roofer's warranty to be effective? 

Here's what the National Roofing Contractors Assoc says http://www.nrca.net/consumer/types/asphalt.aspx

 

Both 3-tab asphalt shingles and laminated asphalt shingles contain a strip of factory applied adhesive that is activated by the sun's heat after installation and seals each shingle to the next course. The seal strip also provides much of a shingle's resistance to wind uplift. Some shingles have a strip of cellophane applied to each shingle to prevent the sealing strips from bonding the shingles together when packaged. When the shingles are installed, the self-sealing strips will not align with the cellophane strips and will bond to adjacent shingles. For this reason, the cellophane strips do not have to be removed.

I Googled it to confirm my understanding, and it is what I thought.  Here's another hit from the first search page http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-...ophane.htm

 

When the shingles are in the bundle, the the celophane strip is aligned with the tar seal down strip from the next shingle in the bundle.  Otherwise the shingles would be permanently stuck together in the bundle.  When the shingles are rotated and flipped into position on the roof, the celophane strip is no longer lined up with the seal down strip.

When the shingle is installed, the celophane strip isn't preventing anything from sticking together.  The only part of the shingles that sticks together is the tar seal down strip.

Since there is zero benefit in removing the celophane strip, it gets left in place.

And, regarding your question... yes, many roofers are lazy.  But that's not a factor in this case  :o)

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Re: HAAG gauge, I got one 3 years ago and used it for a couple roofs after I got it...  It's kind of a novelty to me that I don't need.  The carrier I work for the most considers all 3-Tab shingles to be 25 year 240lb shingles due to the econo 20 years being more rare these days.  With reference to 30->40->50 year shingles, trainers for the carrier I work with have told me to use my judgment first, and did not speak highly of the shingle gauge.   I am typically a tool freak, but in the last 2 years I have not touched my gauge and stopped carrying it in my tool belt.

 

 

Although I have a Haag gauage (and an old key), I rarely use them. They are good tools to use as a guide but are not always correct. You will find the vast majority of 3-tab shingles are 25 year. Most standard dimensionals are 30 year. When you get to the 40 and 50 year laminates, unless you are well versed, it is sometimes difficult to tell the difference. I have found if a house has a 50 year or lifetime shingle, the homeowner knows it and can usually prove it.

There is also an old trick where you can use coins to determine the shingle warranty but I do not recall how it works. I am sure there are several here that can enlighten us.

Organics are usually thicker than fiberglass shingles. Do companies still make organics? I also heard a rumor that 3-tabs, like t-locks, are on their way out.

As for the strips on the back of the shingles, they are just so the shingles do not stick together during packing. They do not need to be removed.

Hope this helps some.

Dave

As noted above, the vast majority of shingles are 25 yr (3-tab) or 30 yr (dimensional), so there's no question from the file examiner when replacing them. When I (rarely) encounter a heavier shingle I slip the Haag gauge on it and take a picture. It avoids the question. Not too concerned about it's accuracy. The goal is to put more money in the estimate (emphasis on estimate) to account for the more expensive shingles. I usually ask the homeowner what they know about the heavyweight shingles.

Thanks all. I think I'll use the gauge for thicker shingles, otherwise it is going to be predominantly 25 yrs for three tab, 30 for dimensional. Good links Bob about the cellophane. Does not affect the warranty. I still wonder how the shingle companies manage their quality control, but I agree that it's not really too important for us. As a consumer, it would make me kind of mad to know I'm paying a premium for an extra 5 years, but there may be little material difference between the shingles. Class action? Not my point, but thanks for the info anyway.

Rich J.

I use the Haag shingle gauge as a guide in my claims because its one more factor or detail that I take the time to consider as I 'funnel' my findings together in my closing report to make a payment recommendation. 

Haag also believes that in order for hail damage to be present, it must tear the bottom side of the shingle so that there is a hole or puncture.  According to Haag, a clean, rounded out gouge with no granules left behind is not enough to satisfy as a good 'HIT' by hail.  While I don't recommend replacement roofs on the premise of granular loss only (I do see some validity in the argument, but not enough), the Haag opinion for a torn backing is a crock of you know what.

In the old days before seal down shingles your dominate thunb and forefinger was used on this test. But seal downs if you press hard you can feel a soft feel. Try iy out of the bruise and you can see what I am talking about. I am with Jud on this one.