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Last Post 08/27/2009 7:47 PM by  BobH
A message to all those seeking training
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DCave
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07/15/2009 4:07 PM

    To everyone out there in adjuster land:

    My name is Danny Cave and I work for US Staffing.  I will not advertise our company in any way on this forum nor try to toot my own horn in attempts to get you to come to our facility for your training needs.

    I have read several of the forum topics discussing not only my company but several others.  My heart goes out to those individuals who attempted to take training courses and for some reason or another had a negative experience.  I can tell you in my 16yrs in this business I myself have had many of those negative experiences with independent firms and wished I could have gotten on a forum like this and expressed my opinion. 

    I would just ask everyone out there that they do their due diligence to look beyond the surface of each and every post that goes on this site.  It appears that some individuals would just like nothin more than to steer you away from a particular adjusting firm with their only intent being to steer you towards theirs.  I have read some very legitiment complaints about certain practices and I can assure each and everyone out there that these issues are being addressed.  Every company that offers training and job opportunites to adjusters should strive to treat those adjusters with the utmost respect and care and we are no exception.

    Should you ever have any questions for me and want to send an email directly my way please do so at danny.cave@usstaffingadj.com  and I will be happy to answer any and all inquiries that you have.

    I will lastly say that I hope everyone that takes an interest in being an adjuster finds their way to success and happiness.  Don't give up on this business because of a bad experience or two.  There are people and companies out there that care about what happens to you and aren't just looking for the best way to fill their pockets.  Whoever you decide to get your training needs from, my only advise is to hold their feet to the fire and make sure they deliver on ALL of their promises.  But also take a look in the mirror and ask yourself if you gave your best effort to be successful.

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends out of them?" Abraham Lincoln.

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    Ray Hall
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    07/15/2009 6:25 PM

    Danny I am one of the person's who questions any vendor that does not pay on closed and approved files submitted to insurance carriers on a two week basis. I will not work for a vendor that does not pay for my E & O coverage.  Has US Staffing changed their contract for their subs? The one I read that I downloaded several months ago, also ask the street adjuster to hold US Staffing harmless for (US Staffing's Negligence) and indemnify them.

    Please print your sub's contract on this site if I am wrong.

    If the training schools could train a person to handle complicated storm claims in one weeks time, why do so many claims get regected by these poor souls who try to do them.. Its a fact that non main street vendors(or back street) use these poor soles to to stop the phone's from ringing for several days as they give the carrier and the policy holder "their adjusters name & number. Many of these file's are then closed in the office when the files are pulled back(They are the vendors property). About 2 out of 20 can swim and last more than 3-4 weeks. If some of you vendors had some good advice to carriers it would be to let you teach scoping for 6 days and estimate writing for one day with a program that can be learned in 1/2 day. I know of a least three.

    As O'Reilly says, Danny "you are a stand up guy for coming in here".

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    Medulus
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    07/16/2009 10:58 AM

    Danny,

    Thank you for your consideration and courage in offering yourself on this forum, so people can get answers straight from the top. Hopefully you will get well-thought-out questions and expressions of concern. I, for one, appreciate and respect those vendors who take the time to address the adjusting community directly.

    My impression of US Staffing training courses is that they are geared to the beginning adjuster. That is my impression because the courses that your representatives would call and offer me when I was independent were courses that were introductions to adjusting and/or Xactimate - courses that I would have possibly needed 15 years ago, but not where I would spend my money today. Now that I am on staff I am more likely to get my training in a forum like PLRB's large loss conference or individual courses offered by AICPCU. I readily recognize, however, the need for a niche market to train beginning adjusters at a reasonable cost.

    If you are looking for input, here's mine. The four hurricanes of 2004 and the three bad sisters of 2005 (Katrina, Rita, Wilma) created a need for independent adjusters like I have never seen. Part of the problem was also systemic in that carriers as a group had underused independent catadjusters for several years prior to 2004. Consequently, many of the best catadjusters I know had left the business between 1999 and 2004. The need for fast training was extreme when the 2004 hurricane season produced four major storms. The best that could be done was to offer quick training to underqualified people. The aftermath was devastating to those of us who were exclusively catadjusters. The carriers were displeased with the end result, and many undiscerning carrier representatives painted us all with the same brush. When, in 2007, I foresaw that it could become increasingly difficult to make a living as an independent I had to remove the word "catadjuster" from my resume before any employer would even look at my qualifications. I heard comments like, "my company will never use catadjusters again". Though comments like this were actually a reflection of ignorance on the part of those making the comments, it did reflect an all-too-prevalent attitude in the industry.

    I now work on staff, as I mentioned. I am in charge of assigning daily claims to adjusters all over the country and reviewing the work they submit to me. I use some of the catadjusters I met through CADO and through contacts in the industry I made when I was a catadjuster. I have had good results because I know who to hire and who to avoid. The day before yesterday I got an email from an agent stating that he had never seen a claim handled better in 17 years as an agent. This is because I put a team of three very motivated and knowledgeable people on the claim the second it crossed my desk (One for building, one for contents, and one for business interruption). I don't mind using someone with less experience if they are motivated and have good training. I also don't mind using someone with lots of experience and motivation.  However, I have had to take a couple adjusters off my files recently, one with 23 years of experience and no discernable motivation or ability to follow directions and a couple others who were billed as "general adjusters" but their work product did not reflect this designation.

    I know these comments are not very specific, nor are they intended to be. Rather, I am just urging you to make sure the training you provide is of the highest quality so that new adjusters know what will be expected of them and are equiped to deliver a quality work product. Perhaps as important is that they know where to find the answers to the questions for which they may not know the answers yet. Here is at least one carrier who will employ a well trained and highly motivated adjuster and be willing to walk them through some of the steps to closing a file and getting paid for it. We, however, have a very low volume of sometimes complex commercial property claims. The big guys like the Red company and the Blue company may be a harder sell.

    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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    Tom Toll
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    07/16/2009 12:36 PM

    I agree with Ray and Steve. Having been to Vale Tech and Farm Bureau Tech myself, I know book training is very important. I took many courses through NAIIA years ago and still enjoy learning as much about adjusting as I can, even though I cannot climb roofs any more. This is a challenging occupation, one that requires knowledge and the only way to gain that is to seek it.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    DCave
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    07/17/2009 12:05 PM
    Tom, Medulus and Ray,

    Thanks for your responses. You guys are welcome anytime you like to call our offices and come take a tour of our facility and speak with any of our instructors at any time.

    Yes our Xactimate and Adjusting courses are geared toward the beginner adjuster. I'm not sure if we ever made any other claims. We also hold certification classes for experienced people just looking to get on companies rosters.

    As far as the contracts, I cannot speak for the owners of this company but I'm sure they would clear anything up for you that needed to be cleared up. I'm kinda having a hard time figured out how US Staffing or any other company would be considered negligent in a CAT situation. Im sure there is one though.

    As an adjuster of 8yrs in Cat field and 8yr as staff I never once bought E and O insurance for myelf, nor did I ever need it.

    Like I said thanks for the comments and come see us if you can.
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    ChrisM
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    07/17/2009 6:53 PM
    Danny
    I am looking to get back into the industry and would appreciate your advice. I have taken the Texas Adjusters Exam and I'm now in the process of securing my license. My previous experience was as a Senior Outside Adjuster (multi-line) so I'm unfamiliar with the certifications required to become an Indepedent, aside from the license itself. I would appreciate it if you could advise what I need specifically to begin working and any other advice you can provide to help me actually land a position with someone. Also, what are the odds of getting a job in this industry because from the looks of this site it appears that the market is flooded with candidates.
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    Ray Hall
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    07/17/2009 9:22 PM
    Chris, contact Pilot in Mobile, AL. They will look at you background and if accepted will get you set up with one of the company's they are a vendor with. They will send you to their school in Arlinton , at no cost. If you pass each phase of the school you will be on your way. Pay day ever two weeks, WC and E & O. They are the best do not settle for less. I worked for them for 10 years.
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    cechricat
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    07/18/2009 1:11 PM
    Statements like this make me cringe:

    "I'm kinda having a hard time figured out how US Staffing or any other company would be considered negligent in a CAT situation. Im sure there is one though. As an adjuster of 8yrs in Cat field and 8yr as staff I never once bought E and O insurance for myelf, nor did I ever need it."

    It’s the willful indifference that bothers me. Sort of like saying you don’t need a prenup because there is no way your wife would ever divorce you, or that you never had car insurance but you saved money because you never had an accident.

    The company I work for doesn’t include E&O, but I knew that up front and I’ve had my own policy for years. Like you I’ve never come close to being sued in well over a decade of being an adjuster. But using this as a reason to not have E&O seems ridiculous. One thing I know is that there are a lot of lawyers and there is always a way to get sued. As adjusters isn’t it part of our training to understand the function of insurance to transfer risk by payment of an amount certain (premium) for a potential future outcome (judgment and/or attorney fees)?

    What would you advise if someone did get sued working for US Staffing? Should they represent themselves and tell the judge they were assured that vendors and IAs weren’t considered negligent in CAT situations? Good luck with that one.
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    TapeMeasure
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    07/18/2009 3:32 PM

    Danny,
    Thanks for your courage in putting yourself "out there." Personally, (based on the experiences I've had with your company - which I've commented on ad nuseum here recently), it's nice to see someone over there finally displaying some accountablity and respect for students and independent adjusters, who, after all, enable all of you to make your money. Hopefully all of you will be able to turn things around and I wish you success in doing so; in my opininon, you have a big job.

     Despite the ravings of one person who has responded to my input on this site, you'll see that I have only shared my experiences while receiving training with US Staffing; not, as you put it, to steer anyone TOWARDS anyone elses firm (which actually is fine) but, rather, to steer them away from the bad experiences I've had with yours. I'm not in the training business. If the "Ronco-tilt-o-meter" had been on the positive side, I would have shared it (as I did in commenting about your TX pre-licensing course), but over all it was on the negative tilt and, for me, will remain there until I see evidence that you have indeed addressed the issues - as you have assured us is being done.
     

    Finally, to quote you: "I would just ask everyone out there that they do their due diligence to look beyond the surface of each and every post that goes on this site." I whole heartedly agree and would add that your post should be held up to that same light for inspection. Depsite your best, and probably sincere efforts, in fact, you are apparently representing US Staffing in this thread and only stand to gain by discounting criticism of US Staffings business practices as biased or unethical.

    Thanks again.

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    Ray Hall
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    07/18/2009 3:42 PM
    The old E & O debate again, I still have problems with all the E&O contracts I have read and still do not have confidence they will defend and indemnify me in a suit. So this is strike one. Now strike two.... the vendor you work for does not furnish you coverage and expects you to hold him harmless for negligence allegations that you or the vendor may dragged into. Now strike three and you walk back to the dugout.... opps sorry, home. The carrier will not defend you. Just stay home unless you work for a vendor that will protect you. And only about 5% will of all the vendors out in blood sucker land..... oops again... back street catastrophe vendors.
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    DCave
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    07/20/2009 9:52 PM
    Everyone,

    Thank you for your profesional and unbiased responses to my post. Most of you are really showing your class in your comments.

    Must have hit a nerve with the E and O insurance. So heres your scenario: Working for US Staffing, you handle a claim and send in the information to the insurance company to process. On the opening statement of Xactimate it will clearly state that "This is an estimate only and does not constitute payment of the claim" along with another 2 paragraphs of how the insured can not start repairs until receiving a check and so on and so on. Or you find no damage to a home and send a denial form to the insurance company which by the way should never have your name on it. Guys I was staff for 8yrs, looked at hundreds of IA's files coming through and basically for the most part IA's are appraisers only.

    If your out there denying claims and signing your name, making promises of payments to insureds, then you better hope you have E and O insurance. For the majority of the CAT adjusters however; I feel its not necessary. Don't get mad at me, its just my opinion.

    Now then if you put a ladder through the insureds window, run over their cat or insult them in their own home, well I really can't help ya with that.
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    Ray Hall
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    07/21/2009 12:39 PM

    Good points and post Dave. Lets use your same example and vendor. After the adjuster is back in Vermont he is named in a suit that names the drefendants. The first is xyz insurance company, the 2nd is John Poor veep of claims for xys insurance company, the third is xxx the vendor and the forth is ABC the adjuster who lives in Vermont and who was served in Vermont. The suit is brought in Texas which ask for a jury trial and ask the jury to apporition the negligence in the unfair claim practice and the deceptive trade practice claim. The adjuster calls xxx back in Texas and ask for defense and indemnity and xxx says you must provide your own. You then call your E & O carrier and tell them your problem. You get a letter from your E & O carrier in a week saying they do not have a duty to defend you until you have satisfied your deductible of $10,000.

     

    In three years the case is tried and the jury finds the carrier and the Veep, 75% and the vendor 25% and you 0% . You ask your E & O carrier to reimburse you for for your legal and travel expense over $10,000 and they state thier contract does not have the language as you were not at fault and the words." we have the right and duty to defend any insured against a suit to which this insurance applies.  This is missing in all E & 0 contracts that I have ever read.

     

     

     

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    GWright
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    07/22/2009 12:39 PM
    Can anyone give me a real life example of when someone spent 10,0000 because they were named in an insurance suit?!?!?!?!!? This concerns me as a new adjuster cause I don't have that kind of cash.

    Is this what our legal system has really come to. In Rays example above, there seems to be no need for E and O insurance. In Danny's example there appears to be no need for E and O insurance, yet I'm told not to work for a company that doesnt carry E and O.

    Also if I understand E and O correctly, it only covers you if you are found negligent. So if your named in a suit and have to spend money for travel and legal and are found to be non-negligent, there would be no coverage anyway.

    Ive asked a couple of my lawyers friends I went to school with and they claim that these insurance suits are targeted 99% at the actual company that denied the coverage or was involved in unfair claims practice. In Danny's example as an estimator, you are not making any decision whatsoever on what actually gets paid on a claim or what gets denied.

    So if I work at a Dr.s office as a receptionist, because I checked a patient in and the Dr. got named in a mal-practice suit then even if I had already left the Drs. office and went on to another job, I would have to travel back and pay legal expenses to get myself out of the suit????????? Just something to think about. We obviously all have our own individual opinions on the topic
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    Ray Hall
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    07/22/2009 1:13 PM
    I have an adjuster bud who was working as a workers comp. adjuster for a large national IA. She was named in a lwsuit and her employer gave her a "qualified" defense and then with drew indemnity when the verdict was quite large. She has an unsatisfied judgement of over one million. This is the only case I know off. Now lets ask the question do you know ANY ADJUSTER WHO HAS EVER BEEN SUED THAT HAD THEIR OWN E & O..... that stepped up like it should and got them out of the bind..... anyone know of a case like this. The reason the adjuster is named in Texas is the plaintiff wants to make a deal with the adjuster to turn on the carrier, just like the old Mary Carter settlements in Texas.
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    ChuckDeaton
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    07/26/2009 2:44 PM
    Keep in mind that in the US of A anyone suit can be filed against anyone alleging any set of accusations and asking for any amount of damages. Failure to answer the suit may result in a default judgment and the plaintiff may file an action to perfect the judgment.

    It is not uncommon for the costs to file an answer and to be dismissed from a suit to take years and for legal fees to exceed $5,000.00.

    The suits filed over flood claims in Virginia after Hurricane Isabel involved vendors and providers of estimating programs. I don't know of any individuals that are involved, but the suits named vendors and adjusting software providers.

    The suits filed after Hurricane Katrina are still being filed and those filed immediately are being settled. Again I am not aware of individuals that are involved, but I do know of individuals that filed against vendors and insureds that named vendors. Some of these suits are 4 years old.

    If you are not well financed and ready to take the risk, staying on the porch is an option I recommend.
    "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt
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    DCave
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    08/10/2009 10:23 AM
    Good Morning to everyone. Just wanted to pass on a quick note to advise anyone thats interested that I am no longer working for US Staffing. Ive gone back to the General Contractor world for the forseeable future :)

    This would be a great opportunity for me to trash US Staffing openly since I don't work for em anymore, but I can honestly say they are by far the best company Ive ever been employed with and that includes such companies as Farmers, Nationwide and State Farm.

    The folks at US Staffing are there to help and support. I understand that not everyone likes their contract or lack of E and O and on and on and on. If those things are an issue for you, then I suggest you stay away. The company in my opinion is a great jump start for anyone interested in getting in the claims industry.

    Bottom line, you go through the training and do a good job and then your gonna have to wait on a major event. As long as you understand that, then your gonna be fine.

    I am responsible for most of the curriculum currently being taught at the school and I can tell ya that the Xactimate and R and H are top notch. Partly due to my experience in the field and the rest thanks to area teachers such as Kevin Kramer for helping me out with R and H. He may not have liked it much but we are reaching much more adjusters and making the adjusters much safer. His school or US Staffing-you can't go wrong either way. I don't know who will be the new R and H trainer there but I'm sure they will be great.

    I"ll still check in on the site from time to time. I love reading all the interesting reponses. My long term plan is to still get the kids outta the house which is gonna be at least another 9-10yrs and then get the ole 5th wheel goin and me and the wife chasin again. Somethin about workin 6 months outta the year and spendin the rest in the mountains or on the beach just appeals to me :)

    Take care everybody.
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    idemnow1
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    08/27/2009 4:14 PM
    I enjoyed your post...
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    BobH
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    08/27/2009 7:47 PM
    Jeez guy, you posted a bunch over the last day. Are you just trying to get your advertising signature visible on the forum? Kinda like a billboard...
    Bob H
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