Ray Hall Senior Member Posts:2443  
| 06/20/2009 12:45 AM |
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This is how dwelling claims were settled 50 years ago and brought back one or more times in the last 15 years. I have called several people working on storm losses and branch assist for all the large carriers and also the large vendors. I think this will stick this time and the FICUS TREE anf other factory type schemes will not work on homeowner claims. I think this is the best way to settle claims. The new people will be able to give up a month or so of income to do ride along ojt training. The people who can do the job will loose a few claims in the first days and then the kinks should be worked out.
This is a topic both new and old should discuss and see if the old & new can have an agreement with the new working with out pay for 30 days. I do not know a better way to learn and it seems the schools want about $125.00 per day to be taught enough to get you in over your head.
New people at home would do well to get a trial version of xmate, before the first cane hits and be ready to make this barter to the real adjusters. New people can not get paid to be trained. You must pay someone and it will take about 300 hours.
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Ray HallSenior Member Posts:2443
| 09/07/2009 1:52 PM |
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This post did not stir up one post. Have the new people all gave up? |
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okclarryd Veteran Member Posts:954
| 09/07/2009 4:28 PM |
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No, Ray, they haven't. It's just that everyone is broke and they don't dare volunteer to work for free. They are having the same issues that many really good, experienced adjusters are having............paying the bills.
There's some work out there but it is for the fortunate few, not the many with limited experience.
Larry D Hardin
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| 09/07/2009 10:41 PM |
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Regardless of how you see things Ray, having someone with you during your work day would end up being a benefit not a detriment.
If you think a new adjuster should pay you while helping you then you are a deminted man. A new hire at any job gets paid while learning the reponsibilities of his new position. My god man weren't you ever a new hire.
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| 09/08/2009 9:09 AM |
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Having a helper during the day would save some time, they could carry the ladder and hold the dumb end of the tape, not that this would speed you up much. However to actually instruct someone slows you down immensly, I know as I have done it before.
I agree with Ray, a trainee should see the value in the opportunity and pay his own way as well as probably pay $100/day. I was fortunate enough to have my dad show me the ropes and there was a lot to learn even though I worked for him in his general contracting company and had just gotten my degree in architecture.
If you want OTJ training for being a new hire, better find a staff job, because that's not how th CAT world works, it's dog eat dog here. |
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| 09/08/2009 9:17 AM |
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Benny, my boy, an important point you just missed. We do not have new hires in this business, we do do not hire new employees. The new folks coming into this business are independent businessmen who must buy all their own tools and training. Ray is absolutely justified in charging a fee for the privilege of shining his beneficial light of knowledge on a hungry pilgrim. Xactimate does this, Integriclaim does this, Pilot does this, Amcat does this, all institutions of higher and lower learning does this and so can you. Please remember the ancient adage, ' There ain't no free lunch!'.
Ol' Ghost
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| 09/08/2009 10:45 AM |
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Isn't it funny that in the last four years since we have been virtually hurricane free that all these IA firms along with old timers in the industry have all come up with ways to try and make a living off of the new nieve adjusters that haven't even gotten a return from their investment of getting licensed and tools for the job. We are a industry here and we should try and better that industry as a group instead of acting like "it's all about me". There are some reputable firms out there that has the industry attitude that do offer good knowledge based training for free for the return of getting you on their roster hoping you will be loyal to them. I for one am more apt to deal with these firms vs firms that feel the need to gouge the new guys and then never send the guy any kind of work what so ever. I have been in that situation and it has just made my struggle to remain in the business that much harder. So if we all would pull together and do what we can for the next guy perhaps this industry would be more prosperous for all of us.
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| 09/08/2009 2:02 PM |
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Those are all good and proper thoughts, Ben, and if our latest fantasy Cat.5+++ 'Fred' was to tear up the eastern seaboard from Miami to Bangor, Maine we could all afford to finance each others training and all the brother-in-laws as well. But, it hasn't happened yet. Until it does, the cautionary advice from we who have been thru the hard times before is absolutely on the spot true and well intentioned.
Pulling together to make us more prosperous is another good idea that has so far failed miserably due to the aspects of individual indepedence, political back stabbing and infighting from the vendors, and again, too much good weather void of work producing storms.
So, here we wait again, all geared up with no place to go and not enough spare change in the truck's ashtray to buy a burger & a beer.
Ol' Ghost
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Ray HallSenior Member Posts:2443
| 09/08/2009 4:03 PM |
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Twenty years ago we saw several fathers with their son/daughter/nephew at the new storm meetings. Well this is not the case today. It seems the younger generation learned arithmetic and time management and got a masters in business and not following in dads footsteps. Also I have read post's... my brother... good bud... best friend told me about the biz and I want in. Did they abandon you for some reason?
I remember my best bud when I was in the Coast Guard, who was a millionaire tuna fisherman from San Diego told me when I wanted to get on his family's fleet of boats. You don,t have a chance you are not a dago and all my sisters are married. umm cold and straight foward. |
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| 09/08/2009 6:34 PM |
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I have read hundreds of posts in this forum. Without question, I recognize that this is an honorable group. I am proud to be a member, but sometimes I read posts that confuse me. This is one of them. I have a problem understanding the benefit to the adjusting community or even to paid mentors as a post here proposes. Imagine if the press got wind of a story about people working without pay for 30 days. The insurance carriers involved would be demonized for having unqualified people involved in the claims process.
If both a newbie and an experienced adjuster work together on a claim it is reasonable to expect that both will benefit from it. The newbie is learning during this process and the benefit is repaid to the experienced adjuster by assisting. If an experienced adjuster wanted to hire a helper for the day to get more claims done, would he find one that would work just for the experience? It seems to me that not enough value is being placed on the help provided by the newbie.
New hires are not new people. We didn’t just appear without any abilities. Every new adjuster brings their life experience to the table. A newly licensed and partially trained newbie will acquire more skills daily when working claims. I would certainly expect that a newbie and mentor would be able to complete more claims together, than the mentor could complete alone within 30 days.
I am a newbie. I have been licensed since last December. I won’t go into all of the training and certificates that I’ve accumulated since then but it is extensive. During my last XM8 class I was helping the teacher. I am not concerned about being deployed when the next CAT hits. I know that I will be. I also know that I won’t be able to perform at the level of an experienced adjuster, regardless of my training and certificates. I won’t until I have a lot of experience. You all know it too, but I would definitely be an asset to a mentor. I have been a mentor to many others in a past life. I have seen it’s wide ranging positive effects.
Ray, I seem to recall from several months ago that you offered to have a newbie drive for you when you had some vision problems. Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think that you offered any monetary compensation to the potential newbie assistant. This help would certainly have made money for you and also keep you safer. That example seems reasonable to me. 30 days without pay does not.
Lasertape, you explained that your father helped you learn the ropes. Pass it on.
I guess if you have never been freely helped during your career you might be justified in mentoring a newbie for pay.
I would be willing to gamble (figuratively) that every adjuster with extensive experience has been aided by someone with more experience, without any money changing hands.
If making money from newbie’s this way is a good idea, then it will probably happen. The fact that it hasn’t happened yet is significant to me. It is not my intention to say whether it is ethical or not. I just wonder if a paid mentor will always be as dedicated and forthcoming with information as a mentor that does it for more altruistic reasons. I have read many posts have included deriding comments about adjuster licensing/training classes. Churning out graduates and not telling those graduates that they are still truly not prepared for the job is profitable. If it is reasonable to question the profit motive in this example, what questions would be raised if a claim provides earnings to one adjuster but not the other, and this repeats itself for 30 days.
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| 09/08/2009 7:53 PM |
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I drove for ten hours, round-trip, to spend about five hours with Ray and threw a newspaper route before and after the drive. I consider the time well spent. I accumulated seventy ce hours my first year licensed in 06-07, but there are numerous lessons that one can only learn through experience. I watched Ray exit his vehicle and followed his movements, helped when possible, stayed out of the way as much as I could, and observed as much as I could absorb. Important lessons include one can never have enough mosquito repellent when working flood claims and atomic fireballs will keep you awake longer than caffeine. In all seriousness, this my first post in 3.5 years, because I will learn more by reading posts by experienced adjusters than by displaying my lack of experience. And I was impressed, that no one in the Houston area, needed training; they must be smarter than those of us in Dallas/ Fort Worth
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| 09/08/2009 11:33 PM |
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I envy you Joe. I contacted Ray several months ago about driving down from DFW to observe and help where I could. He replied that he would let me know when he had a full day of work to make it worth the trip. We have not connected yet but I hope to have the opportunity. Those of us that follow the posts of experienced adjusters like Ray will benefit a lot even if we don't get a chance for mentoring. |
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| 09/16/2009 9:27 PM |
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After reading this thread, I would like to specifically commend Ed Bailey on his concise response. I've tried to think of what could be added and can't come up with anything of substance. Good job!
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Todd Limoncelli Guest Posts:5
| 09/17/2009 10:22 PM |
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Being a "newbie" myself, I would want to learn the ropes from someone seasoned. I was taught automotive mechanics from my father 25 years ago. I will teach any person willing to learn the trade for free, if they show intrest. I wouldnt ask a dime from anyone willing to get into the trenches with me a knuckle bust some bolts. I personally would think quite highly of someone willing to teach me the "correct" way to adjust, and would hope that I would be treated the same way I would treat them if they asked me how to repair a auto!
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| 09/17/2009 10:44 PM |
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"Each of us as human beings has a responsibility to reach out to help our brothers and sisters affected by disasters. One day it may be us or our loved ones needing someone to reach out and help."
RC ESTES
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ChuckDeatonLife Member Senior Member Posts:1110 
| 09/18/2009 9:55 AM |
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The same basic rules apply to the successful practice of any trade, whether that trade is automotive mechanics or insurance adjusting. Generally speaking there is a business situation, i.e. a boss, a customer, a vehicle, tools, a manual and a repair that needs to be done. A mechanic dresses like a mechanic and an adjuster dresses like an adjuster.
The most successful mechanics are the ones that have the right tools, understand the job, complete it successfully and interface with the boss and the customer. Successful adjusters do the same basic things in a slightly different arena. The basic approach to successfully changing an alternator on a Ford Mustang is no different in concept to adjusting hail damage to a residential roof.
Just as in mechanics, the adjusting field spans a wide range of vehicles, i.e. residential losses covered by homeowners policies and commercial losses covered by a wide range of policies. However, the approach is the same.
Intelligent, well read, interested, physically fit individuals willing to put in the hours and the hardships can make a living. My observation is that there are more opportunities for auto mechanics than insurance adjusters and I suspect that auto mechanics make a more localized, dependable living.
"Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt
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Todd LimoncelliGuest Posts:5
| 10/01/2009 11:25 PM |
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Tis true....auto mechanics are needed people as are adjusters. Me, I am willing to work with some "seasoned" adjuster to learn the ropes. I just need to find one thats willing to work with me on my off work schedule! Not such a easy task. BUT.....I would expect the same professional attitude that I would give back to them. Im not a kid who's coming around the block for the first time. I hope I have the wisdom to know when someone is blowing smoke up my butt and just looking to get a free roof lizzard to help lug stuff around. Im in the process of looking to change careers, I would hope the person I mentor under is "willing" to understand that I want to learn, and not just be a 3 day wonder for the rest of my life. I want to do the best I can, for whomever I work for. Just sometimes you need a little insite.
Ya know, I work in a dealership as a dispatcher now. I dispatch to 24 tech's. Why is it, the only faces I see year after year are the older tech's? The newbies come and go.......ya know who Im talking about. The ones who dont get the "real deal" from anyone willing to train them the ropes. They go to tech trade school, and when they land the mechanics job of their dreams, find out its not so easy being a tech. They last a few months, then......there gone!
I dont know, I guess I was brought up in a different time in life.....when helping out your fellow worker meant building a friendship with that person. |
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| 10/05/2009 9:53 AM |
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When I was a younger man I wanted to be a carpenter so I joined the union apprenticeship program, it took 4 years and I was paid to do it, although at a much lower rate than a journeyman. Each year of the apprenticeship I made more more money and I learned a whole lot from the older carpenters. There isn't much of that going on now in residential building and you can tell when you go into most new houses. I now find myself wanting to become an independent property insurance adjuster and I want to apprentice. I've taken numerous classes including Vale's property adjusting school with Alan Anderson. Through these classes I've come to realize there's an awful lot to learn that I think can only be learned on the job with the help of mentors..If this doesn't happen I think the industry is going to suffer. My problem is I can't find anyone that is willing to mentor
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olderthendirt Member Posts:160
| 10/05/2009 10:56 AM |
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The industry is suffering. And will continue to suffer until it realizes experienced adjusters are not the product of a 3 day course. Or until they find more ways to do claims without us. If they pa y more to have the work done, that's ok, they can increase rates to cover it. But if they pay more to the adjusters to control the price on claims, then they can't increase rates. When you spend you entire career in a business, it is tough to see it go downhill, but a few more years and they can put me out to pasture. Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it depends on what you put in it
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| 10/07/2009 1:08 PM |
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I just saw the latest rate increase for property insurance here in the great State of Alabama. With little or no storm activity, you would think paying experienced adjuster would not be a problem.
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