| 11/04/2008 9:37 AM |
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I just finished up working Ike in Cincinnati and I'm now back home. I am a new adjuster (surprised?), i went down to Ohio and shadowed another adjuster, until i started getting some of my own claims. That chapter is now closed, but i want to keep working. I decided I would really like to work around my area(mid-Michigan) doing daily claims, but i am in the dark of how to get started with that. Who would i contact about daily claims in my area as i can't imagine there is much CAT work in Michigan in the fall. I would not mind doing auto, i just don't know how to start. Are there many Cat claims that ever open up in Michigan? what kind, when?
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okclarryd Veteran Member Posts:954  
| 11/04/2008 8:23 PM |
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Alex,
Put your resume together and send it to every independent adjusting firm in your area. You might as well start knocking on the staff adjusting doors as well.
I"m sure someone would like to talk to you. But, they will not search you out.......you have to go find them.
Happy Trails
Larry D Hardin
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HuskerCatVeteran Member Posts:762
| 11/04/2008 8:41 PM |
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What my other brother Larry said...if you want to do local or somewhat local....forget about the Cat vending firms. Cat & locally daily claims aren't the same for the most part. Find a well established local independent adj firm to work for, share the scraps, and if/when they do send the other guys out on Cat you agree to stay home and take all the local stuff. Your own bed, etc., make your own bed, etc..
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MedulusModerator Veteran Member Posts:786
| 11/05/2008 11:22 AM |
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Alex,
I worked several CATs in Michigan. Bone up on anything you can read about ice dams or anything anyone can tell you about what kind of damage they cause and what is and is not covered when there is no actual visible damage to the roof. I worked a fall windstorm in Saginaw in 1998, freeze events in Detroit in 1999 and Kalamazoo in 2001. As a staff adjuster for ASU in Grand Rapids, I also worked an ice storm in 2003.
As to how to market yourself for daily claims, there are people more expert than me on that subject. You might, however, want to sign up with ASU and visit some of the other local adjusting firms to make them aware of your presence so they might call you in when their claim numbers get too high. The fact that you have not been doing this for long might work against you, however. You might also look into getting a staff position in your area so you gain some additional experience.
Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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okclarrydVeteran Member Posts:954
| 11/05/2008 11:03 PM |
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Everybody wants to work hurricanes.
I have made more money working ice dam claims in Detroit than any hurricane I've ever heard of. Plaster is very expensive, there's plenty of claims, no roof climbing, this weather event covers a large area, etc, etc.
Alex, you need to follow the advice of others here and become knowledgeable about the type of storms that occur in your home area.
Larry D Hardin
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MedulusModerator Veteran Member Posts:786
| 11/06/2008 3:00 PM |
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My other brother Larry speaks true about the Detroit market. I had a rude awakening when I wrote up my first estimate and it was half what the lowest contractor was bidding. And the next claim was the same, and the next. In Detroit especially, the devil is in the details. Make sure you catch every detail of the room, because the contractor will. Unless you are working for a carrier that doesn't ever want to close a claim, you need to realize that most Detroit contractors do not simply paint a wall and call it quits. They also add every window and door frame, every molding, every fixture, every switchplate, every outlet, every little detail of the room will be added separately to the cost of painting or detached and reset. The result is that the estimate is considerably higher than the estimates a typical cat adjuster writes. And if you want to find a contractor who will meet your price you need to write the estimate according to local standards. What flies in Texas won't fly in the motor city.
Also, learn how to do the burn test on a carpet without being burned because you may find that many, if not most, of the contractor estimates are written for wool carpet whether it is wool (which it usually isn't) or not. A visual/olfactory example to the insured to show them that their carpet is a synthetic fiber goes a long way.
Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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Jud G. Advanced Member Posts:509
| 11/06/2008 4:30 PM |
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Not sure what the locals call 'mid-Michigan', but if you can do Detroit then you'll find plenty of Daily Work in the lender placed claim arena. This niche is going through what I call an economic catastrophe. Just get ready to investigate claims as you will likely be writing up multiple (separate) estimates for one risk, canvassing the neighborhood, calling the utilities, calling the local police departments, determining if munincipality witholding applies, reviewing inspection reports, etc.
Lender placed insurance claims and/or Daily Claims are very different from windstorm catastrophe claims. Daily claims will require more work and less pay, so get ready for that as well. With increasing competition, there's more carriers expecting firms to do more things for free to get the large volume contracts which leaves very little for the career adjusters. If you can take the long trips, you'll be happier and wealthier doing cat work. There's a few firms out there that focus solely on the Lender Placed market that can keep you plenty busy in Detroit.
Good luck.
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MedulusModerator Veteran Member Posts:786
| 11/06/2008 6:25 PM |
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HOWEVER, when doing force placed policies in Detroit please use extreme caution for your personal safety. Of all the cities I worked in Detroit seemed the most dangerous. If the property is a repo property, make sure you have a contact person at a remote location.
This is how I did it. I would roll up to the property and call my contact. I'd tell her what address I was at and that I was preparing to go in. I told her that if she did not receive a phone call from me in ten minutes to call the police. I would then enter with the key I had been sent, making sure to make a lot of noise. I used a head lamp to see because this left my hands free. The electricity was often turned off. I would shout my way through the house, making sure any squatters had a chance to vacate the premises. I'd quickly walk the entire house, then lock the door and call my contact. I would then call the contact every fifteen minutes until I was safely away from the premises.
Be smart. Be safe. The repo claims market is booming, but it is definitely for the risk takers among us.
One more piece of advice -- I followed this procedure whether I was in the hood or in Traverse City or way out in the woods. You just never know. Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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okclarrydVeteran Member Posts:954
| 11/06/2008 7:04 PM |
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Steve,
Obviously, you've worked some of the same neighborhoods I worked. I never had a contact person, but I had 7 of my little hollow-point buddies in my back pocket on many claims.
In most of these areas, your attitude and body language will be sufficient. If you act like a victim,........guess what you are gonna be?
Actually, lower Chicago is the scariest place I've been. Other than the Iron Triangle, that is.
Larry D Hardin
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| 11/07/2008 12:37 AM |
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Looking for input from you more experienced guys, who have worked cat and daily. All that i currently and ever have worked is daily losses handling forced/lender placed policies. While i have heard that there is a difference i am just wondering what type of transition, if any can be expected if someone moved on or at least expanded into cat work? I may consider at some point working cat losses, but i still have alot to learn. I have handled a few claims with contents covg and additional living, but have not handled any business interruption etc.
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MedulusModerator Veteran Member Posts:786
| 11/07/2008 2:31 PM |
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Spoken like a true Okie, Larry. My father shot his arm off when he was sixteen when he tripped over a log in the woods while hunting. I am not afraid of guns, and have used them with some expertise. I simply prefer not to have them around unless I am doing target practice or my occasional hunting venture every ten years or so. No one ever messes with me because I'm a big scary guy and there are always people that look like easier prey than I.
That doesn't mean I want to run into crack dealers who have taken over an abandoned house or a junkie shooting up or a mentally ill squatter who came in out of the cold. So I will stick with the plan to always have a contact person who knows where I am.
GW, I would stick with the forced place claims for the time being. That is where the current action is. If you can sort out the multitude of causes of loss in a repo house and write separate estimates for each cause of loss you will develop many skills that will help in catadjusting.
The biggest difference is that on a cat you are dealing with people who actually care about their houses and who are actually trying to get them fixed. The human factor is very different. Often in the forced place market you are not dealing with anyone but a mortgage company. In the HO market people will argue with your assessment. Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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Jud G.Advanced Member Posts:509
| 11/07/2008 10:39 PM |
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Often in the forced place market you are not dealing with anyone but a mortgage company. In the HO market people will argue with your assessment.
For the most part, that is true, but you still have to deal with the variety of opinions that determine what is 'first time water loss'. That definition seems to change every day.
As far as running out the squatters, I'd use your judgement on that since some of them can actually be helpful. While in New York, I worked in the Bronx and Brooklyn. There were a couple of buldings I remember where they helped provide valuable input on the construction history of the house. 'Dave' was one of the workers who decided to live in one particular house (for two years). He started here when the previous contractor he was working with ran out of money to renovate two previous fire losses. His information turned out to be very reliable as I pulled the fire reports on the house and they lined up to his story within the month. He also stated that the risk was about to be razed and in doing a title search for munincipality witholding, I found that there was an order to demolish the house.
When your gut tells you no way, just get a police escort or do what Steve said. |
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| 11/09/2008 3:06 PM |
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I have IKE under my belt as well and look to start daily claims, what percentage of the fee bill should I ask for as a unexperienced daily adjuster to start?
I am in Calif.
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759 
| 11/09/2008 10:50 PM |
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I have done daily claims in California for the majority of 18 years, between storm events. It rarely pays out on a fee bill %, unless you are personally licensed in CA and you don't yet meet the experience requirements to get a CA license.
The test for that CA license is also very, very difficult. And the California DOI offers no clues as to what you should study to prep for the test, it is the opposite of Texas where they help people understand what they would like an adjuster to know.
The vast majority of independent adjusters I have met in CA work under the license of a vendor, as I did for many years. That process = you get a "billable hour" amount, and you are told that you can bill more than clock hours (but it often doesn't work that way). Your billable hour rate will start as low as 16/ hour depending on what vendor you start with.
Vendors with a large market in Ca include Crawford and Company, Cunningham Lindsey, Carl Warren, and DMA Claims service. You won't need a CA license to work under them, or if you choose to work directly for a carrier as their Staff.
Once you get a CA license, you will find it doesn't really open that many doors. It is very difficult to get direct assignments from an Insurance Co directly to you, a single adjuster. I know licensed adjusters who went back to working for their old vendor as they couldn't get claims otherwise, and that is also what I had to do.
There are a few vendors that exclusively hire Licensed CA adjusters and pay about 60% of the invoice, but the volume will be low. You will have to have something to fill in the cracks. those vendors would include American Claim Experts, and AIMS for Claims. Bob H
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| 11/10/2008 2:03 PM |
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Thanks Bob,
I appreciate the info. I do not have any connections here in calif. and the info you shared is valuable to me. Thank You For Your Time.
Dan |
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| 11/16/2009 11:59 PM |
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If anyone has info on opportunities to handle forced placed/lender placed insurance claims, I would greatly appreciate your input. Thanks.
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