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Going back to Bryons post of 11-15-07, I had a long weekend.

John, to this point I have not told someone they were wrong. I have only asked questions to try and see others thought process. That being said your comment that “The reason I can justify that is the trade, being whatever it would be, is a professional price for a professional job. If you as a general getting 10 & 10 to oversee the job cannot pick a credible subcontractor then that is your problem, not the insurance company. If you have a bad employee, that is also your problem. It is not right that you try to add a "Project Supervision" charge also to a normal restoration project so that you can go out to supervise someone who is already getting a professional price to do the job, (Double Dipping)” Is completely wrong. I know our cost better than you can imagine and Project supervision is a cost. You talk about backing up what my cost are and that’s why we have chosen xactimate as a tool to aid in our bid process.

From Xactware link you gave, "Xactware, Inc., an industry leader in providing estimating software, services, and building cost data since 1986, has recognized
three categories of overhead. It is the individual user who determines how overhead is added to the estimate. The information
listed below provides general guidelines into how Xactware's published pricing is created and intended to be used. When
Xactware performs market research on unit prices, those surveyed are specifically asked to not include expenses that would be
included in the General Overhead and Profit mark-up percentages (item #1 below)."

(From the second Line, " It is the individual user who determines how the overead is added to the estimate. " You appear to be using this to your own liking which is of course ok, but does not mean that Xactware endorses it on every job.

You also asked me if I use all the Bible or just the parts I wanted in apparent reference to the Xactware Guidelines.
Of course you have to take the Bible word for word to be able to reap the rewards. The bible also has a passage that states, "lean not unto your own understanding" / but learn in the spirit.

It seems you are leaning to your own understanding on the Project Supervsion. I have used Webster Dictionary to get meaning of Project & Supervision. (You will also note that Merriam Webster Dictionary is also at the end of the link you posted).

project[1,noun]project[2,verb]housing project

Main Entry: 1proj·ect
Pronunciation: \ˈprä-ˌjekt, -jikt also ˈprō-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English projecte, from Medieval Latin projectum, from Latin, neuter of projectus, past participle of proicere to throw forward, from pro- + jacere to throw — more at jet
Date: 15th century
1: a specific plan or design : scheme
2obsolete : idea
3: a planned undertaking: as a: a definitely formulated piece of research b: a large usually government-supported undertaking c: a task or problem engaged in usually by a group of students to supplement and apply classroom studies
4: a usually public housing development consisting of houses or apartments built and arranged according to a single plan
synonyms see plan

Main Entry: su·per·vi·sion
Pronunciation: \ˌsü-pər-ˈvi-zhən\
Function: noun
Date: 1640
: the action, process, or occupation of supervising; especially : a critical watching and directing (as of activities or a course of action)

In short you can see they talk about a government housing project of which someone also has already mentioned in a post as the only time "Project Supervision' might be needed and the "Supervision" shouldl be self explanatory.

You stated I was completely wrong in my first posts and I still stand behind it as well as backing it up here.

I have turned down Project Supervision on prior requests but as stated also in my first posts, I will entertain the question and deal with it on an individual basis.

Another thing I look at is the Policy/Contract calls for the normal going rates and it is also what premiums are based on. If you, Bryon, can get Xactware to put in writing that they intended for "Project Supervision", as you interpret it, to be on every estimate written, then I am sure Cat Adjusters would love it.

My last post on the subject.

 

 

Sorry Dales, I'm not taking the bait. This topic is discussed very thoroughly here and I'm not going to revisit it.

On the surface, you appear to be unhappy about something, maybe someone forced you into a low bid on an insurance related project or something. Believe it or not, I often add to a contractor's bid when I find damage this is not specified on a project. I have been doing claims for 17 years, do have some construction background, but do not consider it a pre-requisite to have managed or owned a contractor business in order to "navigate the waters" of how insurance companies settle claims.  The people I work with do rebuild their houses, businesses, etc.  The contractors I settle with are solvent, and welcome insurance jobs. 

I would respectfully point out to you that this is an adjuster's site, you have ID'd yourself as a contractor, and I assure you there are things you do not know or understand about our business. Personally I am done with this topic, if anyone else wants to pick it up they may.

 

Gentlemen,

Let's all keep in mind that 47% of all percentages quoted in messages are made up on the spot.

And, 5/3's of the public do not understand fractions.

I have worked for a contractor, been a contractor, worked for an adjuster, still am an adjuster, etc, etc. Some jobs really deserve an allowance for supervision, and most don't. Ya just gotta know the difference, is all.

Happy Trails

Bob
Our supervisors do not perform any of the labor on the jobs therefore their cost are not offset by other charges. Your statement "Bryan, do your supervisors do anything other than monitor the subs?" grossly minimizes their job. They hold the hand of the customer throughout the process,set and meet time lines, procure equipment and material, meet all permitting needs, ect.... without them the job does not happen. I can assure you they are not sitting on their hands. I know many GC companies might not make you aware of the cost for Supervision but you are paying it. They just throw in some fluff somewhere else in their estimate. We order materials and base sub bid request by Xactimate so our estimates have to be accurate or our budgets would be screwed.
Bob please don't take me off your Christmas list. I'm only trying to present a different perspective.

John
Your are correct Xactimate does not endorse supervision fees are needed on every job but I can tell you this, the jobs that we take on require supervision. What I do know is that Xactimate's unit prices do not include project supervision and the application of O&P does not include project supervision. As to your dictionary quotes all I can say is that everyone on this site knows what I mean by project supervision and if you don't I guess I could rename it Restoration Supervisor(maybe that would help you out).

Bryan I know you have been an adjuster in the past and have the perspective of both sides. It is evident from the opinions of adjusters other than myself that for a typical wind - water - fire - insurance type claim, when an estimate calls out a specific line item for supervision it is kind of an odd duck. I have had unique claims where I have paid it, but they were commercial repairs based on time and materials. (opposed to unit costs)

Well if your supervisor is getting materials, that is moving a subcontractor's project forward and is part of the unit cost. If your framer, roofer, etc was to pull a permit, that should be on the bid as a line item.  Larger projects have a permit based on % of the entire job, and I realize that is different than a subcontractor permit.  Like I mentioned a few pages ago - maybe it is what you are calling it.  If we have to keep going to the site to resolve things that come up, I don't have a problem adding trip charges to the estimate, or trip charges to meet with bldg and safety.  If you folks prepare drawings for the permit process that could be described as a task that is not paid for in other unit costs of the estimate.

Xactimate has line items for various equipment rentals.  If I got an estimate from you that included labor to & from the rental yard, and if I don't see that is included in the unit cost when I hit F-8 then I am OK with paying that labor.  It just needs to make sense to me.   In the insurance world, this stuff needs to make sense to managers. 

Don't want to revisit the 5 pages of this, or make you frantic repeating yourself. But for most insurance type claims involving residential repair, claims settle every day based on unit costs + 20%.

I met with a contractor this morning on a water pipe burst on 2nd story, neighbor sees water running out the doors of the house. I have done claims with this GC for over 10 years. They are buying new trucks and doing great with Xactimate + 20%.

I met with another GC later in the day for a fire loss, also specializes in insurance work. We walked the site, discussed the scope, and I have seen this guys estimates for about 12 years. Same story, it is going to be Xactimate + 20% without calling out supervisor hours. That is also what those contractors charge for uninsured losses, it is what the market bears.

If the estimate is written in terms of grunt labor packing out a house + supervisor + boxes, that is a time and materials bid and supervision is written out as he is one of the laborers on site as a crew chief.

I know you and I can agree to disagree on this point. My focus is avoidance of double-dipping. If the whole bid is described as Time and Materials then I'm OK with supervision. If it is Unit costs + 20% + more supervision then it just stands out from what the typical homeowners claim would cost on the open market.