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Jason,  I have only done the property portion of it as that was all I wanted to do, but it is an excellent program and provides a broad range of knowledge in insurance.  I believe it is geared more toward the underwriting aspect of insurance, and in my opinion there are a couple other avenues of formal study that are more aligned with claims handling.  Those would be the courses offered by the AII (I think those are the initials.  if incorrect someone can provide the right ones)  The beginning of this is 2 or 3 courses such as INS22, iNS23, etc.  The other group of courses is the AIC program which is the associate in claims program.  That is part of the group that does the CPCU program and it used to be once you passed one or both of these programs, you got one or two courses waived in the CPCU program.  Below is a link to look up the AIC information.  Not sure how you would take the INS courses, may be through the same group.  I think the CPCU program will take you at least 3 years to complete, and that is on a pretty progressive schedule unless you are a full time college student doing it as your course work.

http://www.aicpcu.org/flyers/aic.htm

The last time I looked the CPCU was a very big deal. You should google it and you will find I think that there is a long road in front of you.

There are a lot of designations out there, a kind of alphabet soup that you can hang on your name on your business card or your resume--but the CPCU is the only one that really means something in the outside world.

The other designations mean something on your resume when looking for a claims job.

The prior post was correct--the CPCU is underwriting oriented, although claims is included. That makes sense since underwriting is what insurance is really all about, and since the CPCU is the premium designation, it connects with the insurance industry that way.

I chose the AEI course since it is the most legal oriented. I gather, though, that the II is more hands-on.

The CPCU designation (they don't call it a certification) is a very big deal.  It is also not to be entered into lightly.  It involves some of the hardest reading you will ever do.  The complexity of the reading material rivaled the reading required when I was in grad school.  There are ten parts.  Completing each part includes taking a monitored test that rivals the SAT or GRE in difficulty.  There may be a college somewhere that offers a degree in Insurance, but I don't know of one.  This is the closest thing to it, and is respected throughout the industry.  I completed three of the ten courses (units I, V, and VI) in the mid nineties.  Since the rules for obtaining the designation included that all ten courses must be completed within ten years, I would have to start all over again in order to obtain the designation.  It is on my list of things to do, but (to paraphrase the Parable of the Sower) the cares of the world have risen up and choked off the completion of the task to date.  Only a select few in the entire industry are entitled to use the designation CPCU after their name.  Using it without authorization can forever bar you from obtaining the designation and may result in legal action being brought against you.  Yes, they take it that seriously and do not fool around about enforcing their rules.  Until all courses are completed and the designation conferred, one is considered to be a "candidate for CPCU".

The material is very difficult to read unless one has been associated with the insurance industry for some time in order to pick up the concepts and terminology.  To make matters worse, the books may be the driest reading you will ever do.  This is not fun reading for a Saturday night snuggled up by the hearth.  Cramming for the course by waiting until a few days before the test is an almost certain route to failure.

Unit One, which serves as an introduction and includes the ethics portion of the course, is recommended to be completed first.  However, it is possible to complete the courses in any order.  It would be ill-advised to take more than two units per semester.  This means that the minimum time to complete the ten units would be 2.5 years.  Almost no one completes the ten units in that time.  One unit per semester is more typical.  With diligent and commitment you can obtain the designation within 5 years.  After successful completion, and a substantial commitment of time and resources, you would then be in the top echelon of insurance professionals in terms of insurance education.  Most of your peers would be at a management level with one insurance carrier or another.

It appears that one of my statements in the above post was inaccurate.  I received an email from Jim Flynt soon afterwards, correcting my understanding about whether any colleges offered degrees in insurance.  Jim granted me permission to cut and paste his email into the forum.  So here it is:

Steve,

I saw your comment under the CPCU thread on CADO as follows:

There may be a college somewhere that offers a degree in Insurance, but I don't know of one. 

I just wanted to help you in that I am pretty familiar with dozens of colleges which offer undergraduate and graduate degrees in insurance. Many of the deans in these college programs are quite heavily involved in the CIC (Certified Insurance Counselor) (designation) program and that is where I first learned about all the colleges which offer insurance degrees. One of the neat things about getting the CPCU designation is that each one of those 10 courses are accepted by most colleges as one semester of course work toward a degree without regard to whether or not the degree is in insurance.

Should you need it, I can send you a list of the colleges and universities which offer an insurance degree. The number would surprise you and you might be even more surprised to see the names of some of these colleges, which you would surely recognize.

Just wanted you to be on top of the latest information.

Jim

From the AICPCU.org website:
The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania
Founded in 1881, The Wharton School was the first collegiate business school in the world. The Institutes have a long-standing connection with Wharton. The American Institute was chartered in 1942 as the result of combined efforts of insurance industry leaders and university professors, principally from Wharton.

Today, Wharton, the global leader in business knowledge, remains a partner of the Institutes, offering their specialized executive education programs, Insurance Executive Leadership and Insurance Executive Development.

The Institutes have formed separate alliances with the following schools to offer you degree programs that apply the credits you have earned for your Institute courses. Take a look at an overview of our partnerships or click on a link to learn more about that program and the school's admissions requirements and application procedures:


Boston University: Earn a Master of Science in Insurance Management
CapellaUniversity: Earn a BS, MS, or MBA
Drexel University: Earn your BS, MS, or MBA degree
Excelsior College: Earn an associate degree or a bachelor's degree
Franklin University: Earn an MBA degree
Salve Regina University: Earn an MS or MBA degree
Walden University: Earn your BS, MBA. or PhD degree

And here are some other links:
The National Alliance for Insurance Education&Research

Risk Mgt / Universities : insurance higher education, insurance degrees, i

The University of North Texas offers a BBA and an MBA in Insurance.

A note of caution re: degrees in insurance--most (not all) of the institutions listed offer "distance learning" programs, i.e., on line. I see nothing wrong with on line as such, some recognized schools offer it (often on a limited basis), but the trouble is that most of the distance learning programs are from institutions that are not regionally accredited.

Regional accreditation is the holy grail of higher education in this country--without it other (regionally accredited) institutions will not recognize your work for credit. All the recognized institutions are regionally accredited (state universities and colleges, and their private equivalents).

Here's a real-life example:

I spoke with a job recruiter about a college teaching job. I have a JD from a private college. She looked my institution up on the fly as we spoke on the phone. "Yep," she said, "it is a regionally accredited institution." That is all she wanted to know. Without that, there would have been no prospects for a teaching job with her client.

One further caution--I have seen some institutions which are regionally accredited which I don't believe would make the cut with mainline institutions re: accepting their students. Regional accreditation is the beginning but not necessarily the final answer to accreditation in the eyes of the established schools.

The final word is, check the institution out. The best way is to contact a recognized state college/university and ask them if they would accept credits from the institution you are considering.

 

Thanks for the great post. The wealth of knowledge that all of you have is such a valuable asset to me.

Thank you all,

Jason

How does a person become a General Adjuster ? This is really a pay grade for adjusters. The most common way is for a company staff adjuster with 15 to 25 years background in property and casualty claims to be designated a General Adjuster. This person travels a large area working only the very complex large losses from his/her home base.

The IA field will advertize and hire a person with the designation. The Executive General Adjusters come from the GA ranks and work the multi-million dollar loss/claims and report to the Vice Presidents of claims or his designate. They also seem to deal with the Presidents, VP and General Counsel of large insureds or brokers.

Good thoughts Ray and very typical.  When I was a daily adjuster with a national Independent Firm, there was an adjuster who received a GA designation for having less than 10 years of experience.  I've noticed that when something like this occurs, the adjuster or employee usually is very strong in another area outside of their number of years of experience; knowledge, customer service, or, of course, butt-kissing.

The National Association of Independent Insurance Adjusters (NAIIA) has a target date of January 1st for standardizing the titles (Adjuster, Senior Adjuster, GA, EGA) given to employees with member firms.  This will give the NAIIA a great boost when a member firm advertises their employee profiles.  That way any given carrier can click on a member firm with a General Adjuster and will know what type of work product to expect from them.

Thank you, Jud...for saying it first.   I've been a resident staffer, a staffer, a branch "independent", and now a total independent.   Seen all those "GA's" that cannot write an estimate to save their "A's", but have at the same time been given the authority to "obtain"  the repair/replacement costs.

Kinda makes you think...is it my looks or my poor personality?

During Hurricane George, I was working buy back deductible policies. I ran into several GA's that were using contractors to write their estimates. I wrote a number of losses that exceeded the million dollar deductible, with our deductible at $100,000.00. I asked one GA why they were not writing their own estimates and one told me they always used a GC to scope and write anything over a million dollars. He further said they did not have time to write it. This was a reputable national adjusters organization. That confused the heck out of me.

From asking the GA some questions about their estimate submitted by the GC and his inability to answer the questions, caused me to wonder what his duty was.

During Andrew, if we could not write an estimate, regardless of amount, we could not work for the carrier we were working for. My largest estimate in Andrew was a little over 7 million and the contractors estimate was over 12 million. It took 6 weeks to scope and write. The contractor said he could and would not do the repairs for my estimate. I explained to him that he was not the only GC in the area and I intended to send my estimate to a local general  contractor to look at. The next day they called back and said the construction superintendent said they could facilitate the repair based on my scope and estimate. What does that tell you? They did the repairs and did not ask for supplements.

I must totally agree with you Tom. Andrew was (at the time) the Mother of all storms, and we had to write every claim up either by hand of the "new-fangled" way of computers , which i was fortunate or clairvoiant enough to have the old NES system that made the job a lot easier.

When the contractor got the line item estimate , they had little to say about what their one line, "Fix the building for 2.5 million " estimate, when we had a complete scope for 2.1 mil. You get the picture cause you were there too.

I now wonder how many can still write an estimate for 5 to 50 million? I bet there are not 100 in the world.

Remember the fun old days of writing up apartment complex or motel fires when you had to hand write all the repetetive rooms that the scope per room was essentially the same? The NCE was an adjuster's alternative bible in those days Ever sit down and remember how long it would take you to write up some of these losses in those days compared to what it takes today using macros, unit pricing, etc? How many people do you think could still write up a decent size loss without using any unit pricing? Then you had those adjusters like me whose handwriting sucks to begin with and gets worse the faster I write

Dave and Steve. I used a system called CRS. Of course it was DOS based, no macros, so you had to take notes to create repetitive line items. When I got through with that estimate, which was printed  on a dot matrix printer with fanfold paper, it literally filled a 2'x2' square box, to the top. We shipped it to the carrier in that box, with the 30 page report laying on top. The nice part of that event was, we could call the carrier and request a one or two million dollar check and would get it overnight. Can't do that anymore.

That was back in the days that the carrier actually trusted us when they saw we really knew what we were doing. Spent 18 months on 52 claims, the least of which was just under a million. We carried those 4# cell phones, of course, no laser measuring devices, all tape measured. Was that really back in the good ol days?

Janice was the office manager and had 58 adjusters working for her. She put in a minimum of 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. The only thing she chewed adjusters out for was not returning calls and not making appointments on time. Damn I love this work.

I would bet that Ray Hall was somewhere around there too, particularly with his experience and know how/

I had a programmer write our own program in DOS, and he wrote it in a DOS based program and I forgot the mane of it, But it was pretty cool, and We wrote it to where it traced the Estimate, and also tracked the Invoice. Of course all Items we had to look up, and thats where the Contractors Blue book came into play! Things have come along way since then! Hasnt it?

Ray

I have dealt with many self appointed GA and executive GA.  Many were a little premature in their appointment.  I have not determined a method to distinguish between self appointment and xxxxxxxx appointment.  My question is, what classifies a vendor or adjusting  agency to grant the GA standard?

William S Cook

Self  Appointed PA

And what's a "self appointed PA". Is it similar to this guy who I once had the displeasure of dealing with and failed to show up at the appraisal hearing after filing a bad faith complaint with the Florida DOI? True story.

http://www.insurancejournal.com/new.../68915.htm