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Posted By Jud G. on 7/21/2013 1:47:45 PM

It [can be easy to forget] the many great things we have going for us in this exceptional country and terrific career we have as Adjusters.  

Posted By Jud G. on 7/20/2013 7:26:42 PM

 The carrier needs to consider the fact that they will bear the worst share of the consequences for accepting and/or encouraging low-balled fee schedules.  Consequences for something like this are witnessed through the release of droves of uneducated (but certified) and oblivious minions who have been assigned claims by IA vendors that desperately grovel for work.

 

Do you think that paying a higher fee schedule would deter the droves of uneducated (but certified) and oblivious minions? Do you think that the larger IA firms out there would never again have a "warm body" situation in which the droves of uneducated (but certified) and oblivious minions were welcomed with open arms? How about the smaller firms that tend to lose their decent adjusters to the firms with heavy volume during larger scale events? Do you really think that a carrier should say "no, I don't think we are paying enough" just because the market is pretty saturated with competition?

The only way I can think of to solve the minion problem would be to legislate mandatory apprenticeship periods, just as is done for certain types of construction and for real estate appraisers. In many states, a 2-4 year apprenticeship is required prior to securing a license. This would reduce the number of minions, increase the fee schedules for those of us with a little bit of background, and start a whole new cottage industry training apprentices.

Posted By dbonham on 7/21/2013 12:15:20 AM
 What exactly does it have to do with the original thread topic? 

 Stay on topic. 

Give something back to this community as opposed to your jaded views on the system. 

 Sorry if I have offended you, you clearly have cultivated views on the carrier-vendor relationships, it's just not relevant to this thread.

First, did you bother to read the OP? This guy can run, write and close 10 claims by lunch with his "system". Do you really want to stay on topic? 

I believe that you became offended at the mention of droves of uneducated (but certified) and oblivious minions. Does the OP sound like a thorough adjuster? Does he sound like someone who will take the time to make sure the file is right? Is it "jaded" to refer to the droves of uneducated (but certified) and oblivious minions as droves of uneducated (but certified) and oblivious minions, when that is exactly what they are, with the occasional, but rare, exception? How would you like a two week adjuster who passed a class on how to pass a test in 5 days determining the value of your most valuable possessions? Would you be "jaded" if you called the carrier and said "send me someone who knows what they are supposed to be doing"?

The carrier-vendor relationship has a great deal to do with this thread, actually. The OP highlights a serious problem within the industry. We all love volume, and good IA's are all about closing claims. That said, when you see someone yelling "I can close 10 by lunch using my system", 999 our of 1000 times, you have just run into an uneducated (but certified) and oblivious minion who has no idea what they are doing. Would it be "jaded" to call them on it and to further discuss the merits of having such a lax set of rules dictating who can become an adjuster and when?

Posted By AcceleratedAdjuster on 7/23/2013 4:00:26 AM 

...

Do you think that paying a higher fee schedule would deter the droves of uneducated (but certified) and oblivious minions? Do you think that the larger IA firms out there would never again have a "warm body" situation in which the droves of uneducated (but certified) and oblivious minions were welcomed with open arms? How about the smaller firms that tend to lose their decent adjusters to the firms with heavy volume during larger scale events? Do you really think that a carrier should say "no, I don't think we are paying enough" just because the market is pretty saturated with competition?

The only way I can think of to solve the minion problem would be to legislate mandatory apprenticeship periods, just as is done for certain types of construction and for real estate appraisers. In many states, a 2-4 year apprenticeship is required prior to securing a license. This would reduce the number of minions, increase the fee schedules for those of us with a little bit of background, and start a whole new cottage industry training apprentices.

There's more to a rate than just a number- some carriers understand this and some don't.  As I said in my previous post, increased discretion should be exercised.  Having a decent rate is a great place to start where carriers can ask for a ton of extra items to be included in the adjustment of a single loss.  While doing so, they don't have to worry about not having enough field adjusters moving on or turning in crappy work.  If a rate is decent, the vendor will be able to hang on to inexperienced adjusters, train them, and coach them along.  Furthermore, those new adjusters know that the pay is good enough to hang around.  On a higher level, some rates are so good that all the carrier just has to do is say, "Adjust this loss" and vendors' field staff are happy to find extra things to make their files sing.

As I say that, we can all agree that there's certainly not an easy answer.  I can think of several carriers who, for years, have either dictated the amount of the fee schedule or allowed vendor applications to qualify solely on the basis of who has the most competitive schedule.  These carriers just get used by multiple vendors who are often characterized by new account managers or are new and trying to get their feet on the ground with some cash flow.

The use of time tested methods like relationships, trust, integrity, hard work, quality, accountability are put on pause until it's convenient to start espousing these traits again.  For accountability to work, it needs to cost something.  Once the vendor gets what they want, they start looking elsewhere for greener pastures and start taking care of their decent paying clients.   

Decent vendors I work for have outstanding hourly rates for their daily losses.  These rates are so good that they don't even need to change in the event of a major catastrophe.  They don't compete on price points.  Accountability works in these situations, because (as I said earlier) it costs something; it really does hurt when the account is lost.  The vendors have a simple (not complex, but hard) answer to this problem, under-promise and over-deliver.  Putting this in practice is another thing and is demonstrated through many methods.

These vendors are ahead of the curve because they create their own apprenticeship programs.  While the trainee adjusters do have licenses, their managers rely on their good judgement to decide when their protégé's are ready for increased responsibility.  They encourage adjusters to interact with the carrier, they seek to have their adjusters double as account managers and reward them for fostering long-term relationships.

I really do like the intent of the 2-4 year program, but I cringe at the thought of increased legislation; it just makes it harder for good people to succeed and do the right thing while the slime will continue to invent new ways of skirting the system.  For it to work, hearts need to change- not laws.

Just a few observations,

I think all posters in this thread have their points and I respect every single one of them. One poster's comments in particular really stuck out. (Jud G)

I have posted close to 900 comments/topics over the last couple of years. I think most have added value to CADO. Nevertheless, when someone responds and chooses to seek out the negative, I tend to jump right in and have it out with said individual and then it becomes a pi$$ing contest. The thing I have realized is no matter who comes out on top in those contests, there are NO winners. Further, the ones who lose the most are those that have minimal experience and look to CADO for guidance. Those that take our posts as gospel. Even worse are those folks who come to CADO looking for answers but see the nonsense I and others have participated in and choose to go somewhere else.

Jud G, your response to DBonham was one of the most mature responses I have ever heard. Instead of engaging and denying whatever you guys were speaking about, you gave some credence to his post and that is something I hope I can learn to do in the future.

It comes down to I didn't learn from what you did say, I learned from what you didn't say.

Thank you for that.

Now with regard to the original topic, I cannot fault anyone for trying to seek out an existence in this industry.

This RESTCON fellow may indeed be a good assessor (for lack of a better word), but it is my opinion that this guy has the wrong priorities. If folks want to sub out their inspections assigned by the carrier/IA Firm, well that is their right and as Jud pointed out, as for the most part we are independent contractors and how the work gets done is up to the specific individuals.

Nevertheless, many rookie adjusters and prospective adjusters look to us for guidance. For them to see someone who claims to do not 10 claims per day, but 10 claims before lunch gives them the notion that maybe they can do that many one day.

What this person claims to do is exactly what is wrong with this industry. We have too many uneducated and over certified claims adjusters looking to bang out as many claims as possible. To even attempt 10 claims before lunch is a disservice to the carrier, the IA firm, the industry as a whole, and most importantly, a disservice to the insured.

There is no way that someone (anyone) can look at 10 claims before lunch and not miss important details and/or damage.

I am not the best nor the worst adjuster in this industry, but I am still here after 10 years and hope to be around for another 10. I don't think anyone should attempt to hit a specific number of claims per day, doing so takes away that person's skill set and it simply becomes a numbers game. I have never been able to exceed 4 claims a day comfortably. Make no mistake, I have tried to bang out claims before but the fact is I make more money hitting 3 to 4 claims per day than someone who tries to bang out 10 claims a day because of those 10 it is a given that a % of those claims will be reopened because the adjuster was in a hurry and missed important damage. There are times where I will only hit one or two claims a day (depending upon scope of damage) Even after 10 years as an adjuster, I don't have any business trying to fly through claims. I don't know enough to work that fast.

At least in my case, I sometimes spend more time of risks with minimal damage than those risks with massive damage.

I don't know who RESTCON is, but for me, I would not want him/her working under me as a team lead claims manager examiner or even as a fellow adjuster. He/she simply has the wrong set of priorities. Whatever system he/she purports to have that can knock out 10 claims before lunch is flawed and by design be filled with shortcuts.

For our newly licensed brethren, please don't forget that doing as many claims as possible will only serve to shorten your career and will ultimately serve to take money out of your pockets (IE reopens and chargebacks) Of course nobody is saying being a claims adjuster is entirely about Altruism. Nevertheless, our job is to make the insured whole after an event. Learn how to scope a risk accurately and the time it takes to do so is exactly that. In time you will learn to be more efficient, you must resist the temptation to rush through claims. After you hone your craft and you can average 3 to 4 quality claims a day (in time), you will be in this industry for a long time and you will make a nice living.