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When I was staff for a certain carrier, they took a proactive approach to mitigate damages from heavy snows that occurred in Omaha back in about 2001 or 2002.  Prior years we had had a lot of claims from weight of ice/snow as well as ice dams in the gutters or vallleys resulting in interior water damage.  What happened was, the company advised the agents to tell their insureds that we would pay to have snow removed from the roofs if it was over 6" snowfall with drifting (which is generally the case here in Nebr with the winds).  One condition was, it had to be done by the insured or by an approved/insured contractor.  Often times the shingles would be damaged if due care was not taken, thus the reason for using the approved contractors.   As an adjuster, I did not generally see these claims since our agents were given draft authority up to $500 for those occurrences.  My involvement started when the leaks did.

Thanks for the info Mike,

Was this a non-deductible event? the carrier just had this available coverage to mitigate roof and structure damage?

Sounds like the carrier was on their toes and had some common sense.

This scenario is similar to a kitchen fire accidentally started by the insured.  The loss would be covered the same way whether it was negligently/unintentionally ignited by the insured, faulty wiring (third party negligence with subro potential), or lightning (act of god/natural event).

If that same Kitchen fire gets out of control and burns the neighbor's house, then the insured's Coverage E benefits would apply to take care of their neighbor.

I have almost 2 weeks experience on ice claims. so I will not comment. On the winter storm in PA. I did see the large strip shopping centers having workers up on the flat roofs... shoveling. I think most all HO and broad commercial cover this type collapse.

I never knew about this BEST gutter material, which is ice shield until I was in Mn. one summer on a hail storm. Saw an Owen-Corning super duper roof last week put on and the new no knife valley. One of the crew puts the valley shingles over ice shield and the first cut shingle is not in the valley, but outside.This is not an eye ball operation and takes a little more planing.

This is a  topic. Disappearing courses of shingle in less than 45 feet of ridge. I have seen as many as 6 disappear

I have not been adjusting as long as some in the forum.  Where would I find "weight of ice and snow" as a "PERIL"  in a standard homeowner policy?

William S Cook

Public Adjuster

I will give you a hint. if it isn't listed under the normal coverages is there another place in the policy that shows coverages???

This is a little exercise in your research ability. keep digging you're getting closer.

Mr. Deaton

I considered that we were dealing with building damages under a standard ISO policy, but lets use the one provided by Mr. Culp, as it is handy for review.

Thanks Mr. Taylor, but I need a better hint than you have provided.  The thread is dealing with structure and not personal property, and since the peril of the weight of  3.5 feet of snow did not produce a claim on your Montana home.  Exactly what covered damage did you anticipate to your home?

I am here to learn, I learn best when I am found to be wrong.  This forum group is one of the best learning tools in our industry, and I appreciate Mr. Culp allowing my participation and welcome all responses.

William S Cook

Public Adjuster

Apologies to Mr. Cupp as I spelled his name wrong.

William S Cook

Florida Public Adjuster

The ISO HO 00 03 10 00 policy is all risk except those excluded.

“2. We do not insure, however, for loss:
b. involving collapse, except as provided in E.8

E. Additional Coverages
8. Collapse
b. We insure for direct physical loss to covered property involving collapse of a building or any part of a building if the collapse was caused by one or more of the following:

(1) The Perils Insured Against named under Coverage C”
Items (2) thru (6)

Under Coverage C perils we find: 11. Weight of Ice, Snow, Or Sleet This peril means weight of ice, snow or sleet which causes damage to property contained in a building.

Items (2) through (6) gives coverage back for collapse for hidden decay, insect damage, weight of contents, equipment, animals or people, weight of rain, and defective construction during the construction process.


Read language from an earlier ISO HO 00 03 04 91 It is very similar except....

Additional Coverage
8. Collapse. We insure for direct physical loss to covered property involving collapse of a building or any part of a building caused only by one or more of the following:

a. Perils insured Against in COVERAGE C- PERSONAL PROPERTY. These perils apply to covered buildings and personal property for loss insured by this additional coverage.

Note the earlier ISO policy makes it very clear that the named perils listed for Coverage C apply to “covered buildings” insured by the additional coverage for collapse. The newer policy still refers to the perils for Coverage C, but doesn’t specifically mention  the buildings.

Building damage from weight of ice or snow short of collapse would appear covered as a risk not excluded.

Randyc

Since we are seeking comments from all readers regading the issue of damage to a building caused by weight of snow under the policy HO 00 03 10 00 provided by Mr. Cupp, why bring a policy to the table that we can not review and is not applicable in our review.  Since the policy does define collapse and does not define damage "short of collapse" can you define damage "short of collapse" for my  future reference, should we get a weighty ice/snow storm in Orlando, unless it is excluded of course?

As an ever learning Public Adjuster,  I would still remain out in the cold on representing Mr. Taylor's neighbor on her loss, based on Mr. Cupp's

provided HO-3 policy.  However I do appreciate the  extra effort that you provided to the group with the details of your response and hope that others will contribute to the thread with specific policy language.

William S Cook

Florida Public Adjuster

mr. Cook,

 The context of this question is and was to get everyone to look up the different policies so they would know for sure what was and was not covered I am sure as you are a PA. You are use to finding the exact coverage for your insured. it is an integral part of the business as you are aware.

The weight of the ice and snow created a claim for my neighbor lady across the street after it cracked all her rafters. That was an example of someone having damage but the question has to do also with negligence on the part of the insured. Which I explained in her claim scenario.

  i used my home as an example of what Montana people watch out for in this situation and how they handle it. Most people try to alleviate damage to keep from having to submit a claim period.

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Jerry, 

Under exclusions:

5. Neglect

Neglect means neglect of an "insured" to use all reasonable means to save and preserve property at and after the time of loss.

It seems that would trigger at the first discovery of damage.  If the insured heard cracks and moans from the burdened rafters, looked in the attic and saw the intial signs of damage, then they would be required to act in reasonable time and manner.  I leave it to others more experienced with these claims to establish any envelope of "reasonable means."  Good question!

Mr. Taylor

I agree one hundred percent in regard to the context of the question to locate covered damage.  Since your elderly neighbor did not have insurance coverage for her loss I am curious why you thought that you would have coverage for weight of ice or snow damage. I can not find insurance coverage under Mr. Cupp's speciman policy.  I would appreciate any professional responses otherwise, quoting policy language as the foundation of the response of course.  Please consider this exchange as one professional attempting to learn from other professionals and not a personal vendetta against  respected professional adjusters  that I have never met.  I monitor this forum group regularly and have enjoyed occasionally challenging claim issues over the past few years. 

William S Cook

Florida Public Adjuster

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