Forums

The exact (or is that Xact?) Date and time Skynet became self aware was......

Posted By Meg on 24 Sep 2010 04:13 PM

The exact (or is that Xact?) Date and time Skynet became self aware was......

 

Terminator right ?

 

LOL , yeah, amazing how some of those sci-fi stories are frighteningly like predictions, eh?   

The precise answer is no. The history of IA,s is long one. Just think back to about WWII. A lot of staff adjusters were now in the armed forces and the claims still had to be worked. This is probably when some older staff adjusters saw an opertunity to open an office in a small town in America and get all the claims he could say grace over from the carriers in for away lands like NY, Chicago, San Francisco.

When I started in 1955 GAB was the largest property IA in the USA, Crawford & Co, was the largest casualty firm, but both had property & casualty departments. In a large city like Houston we had 3 to 5 person I office that worked for mutual carriers only and same with the stock carriers. IA,s have always lived off of "Overflow" work and always will. What put your best adjuster out in the field on a large fire loss that that will take 40-50 hours of work, give it to an IA who will do a great job and our great adjuster will close30 to 40 claims in the same time frame. The anser is still no., But why hire any one to go out in the field, to settle losses when you can get all the information needed to "document the fille requirements" and close more from the office.

Just think how hard it was for us old auto/casualty adjusters to adapt to telephone recorded statements, instead of face to face type writer statements. I recall about 30 of us were trained in one  8 hours day and lost our company car and gas card.

Posted By ChuckDeaton on 25 Sep 2010 10:09 AM
Technology will never replace boots on the ground. If anything technology will increase the role of experienced adjusters "experts".

That was basically my first thought too, Chuck, when I first read Robby's post.  I thought, just because they have measurements, it doesn't validate or inspect the loss.  If all claims could be handled from the desk we'd have no purpose, but thankfully, that's not the case.  I feel quite certain that for losses over a certain value, there will always be the need for an adjuster to inspect.  If that weren't the case how would potential fraud be controlled?  I suppose adjusters will always be a necessary player in the mix of insureds, contractors and adjuster (company eyes & ears).

"That was basically my first thought too, Chuck, when I first read Robby's post. I thought, just because they have measurements, it doesn't validate or inspect the loss. If all claims could be handled from the desk we'd have no purpose, but thankfully, that's not the case. I feel quite certain that for losses over a certain value, there will always be the need for an adjuster to inspect. If that weren't the case how would potential fraud be controlled? I suppose adjusters will always be a necessary player in the mix of insureds, contractors and adjuster (company eyes & ears)."  Stormcrow

I expect what you say is true, but there is another angle that storm adjusters either don't see or just don't pay attention to and that is what happened with TWIA and the "lifted shingle". You know that TWIA would not pay for "lifted tabs" that is unsealed tabs on a three tab composition shingle roof. Once again the Mostyn Law Firm has proved that trial lawyers are the ultimate police. My point is that every loss and especially similar losses that are wide spread have to be properly inspected otherwise an instant class action law suit is created. Should a class action make it to court someone has to testify both as a "fact" witness and as an "expert" witness.

The penalty for screwing up the process is enormous. The Mostyn Law Firm settled one case for $189 million.

Boots on the ground adjusters will never go away and the opportunity to work as an "Expert" expands every year. Plaintiffs attorneys already rail at Xactimate and its use. I was just involved in a Katrina loss where the "newbie" adjuster did not download the proper price list and did not adjust for post Katrina pricing. The case was force in to settlement because of this. Can you imagine what would happen if an admitted company never set foot on an insured's property, just denied the claim or underpaid it, or several thousand, based on satelitte imagery?

Posted By ChuckDeaton on 25 Sep 2010 08:14 PM

"That was basically my first thought too, Chuck, when I first read Robby's post. I thought, just because they have measurements, it doesn't validate or inspect the loss. If all claims could be handled from the desk we'd have no purpose, but thankfully, that's not the case. I feel quite certain that for losses over a certain value, there will always be the need for an adjuster to inspect. If that weren't the case how would potential fraud be controlled? I suppose adjusters will always be a necessary player in the mix of insureds, contractors and adjuster (company eyes & ears)."  Stormcrow

I expect what you say is true, but there is another angle that storm adjusters either don't see or just don't pay attention to and that is what happened with TWIA and the "lifted shingle". You know that TWIA would not pay for "lifted tabs" that is unsealed tabs on a three tab composition shingle roof. Once again the Mostyn Law Firm has proved that trial lawyers are the ultimate police. My point is that every loss and especially similar losses that are wide spread have to be properly inspected otherwise an instant class action law suit is created. Should a class action make it to court someone has to testify both as a "fact" witness and as an "expert" witness.

The penalty for screwing up the process is enormous. The Mostyn Law Firm settled one case for $189 million.

Boots on the ground adjusters will never go away and the opportunity to work as an "Expert" expands every year. Plaintiffs attorneys already rail at Xactimate and its use. I was just involved in a Katrina loss where the "newbie" adjuster did not download the proper price list and did not adjust for post Katrina pricing. The case was force in to settlement because of this. Can you imagine what would happen if an admitted company never set foot on an insured's property, just denied the claim or underpaid it, or several thousand, based on satelitte imagery?

I sure hope you are right Chuck, you and Meg have grand arguments against our demise, I just know that sometimes the powers that be don't always follow logic.

Robby Robinson

 

I for one who has been looking at wind losses for over 50 years, have seen somthing in Texas that goes to three legs of the claim stool that is et up in the barn on uneven ground and very poor conditions. Leg one is the inpectiong adjuster, leg two is the estimationg program and leg three is the insurace industry rules, guide lines, manuals and so forth. The unhappy policy holder anly needs to (green stick)  crack one of the legs, and the all the evidence sitting on the stool falls backwards in the cow dung.

The only leg that has real strencth is if the working adjuster is out of state(get the case in federal court).The allegation of  run and gun, the  only software, guidelines is prima facia evidence AND the carriers know this. The biggies is the plaintiff,s know these cases will never go to trial.

Look for policys to go to ACV on roof membrane.s just like fences. Nothing else will keep the premium affordable. I look for the large windstorm deductible to be considered as co -insurace by the courts, which is not permitted on dwellings or contents therin by the fire insurance conventions.

Chuck is correct the top 10% will always work.

"I sure hope you are right Chuck, you and Meg have grand arguments against our demise, I just know that sometimes the powers that be don't always follow logic." Robby Robinson

All will agree when I say that the global insurance market has many segments and sub segments. Sure there are segments, primarily the mutual and stock, admitted companies that dominate the homeowners market, who use integrate satelite technology and will eventually come to depend on that use. Those companies will be able to scan zip codes, measuring residential risks. Yes, any competent company will database the measurements, I suspect that USAA is already doing this, and at some time a technology will emerge that will identify hail hits. There will be storms that are severe enough to justify scanning and paying for all identified, insured loss as a total loss, in a zip code. That is essentially what was done with flood losses in NOLA in 2005. The methods were different, but the result was the same. Inside adjusters paid losses to the limit of coverage based on a list of factors. And there have been other instances where this has been accomplished. A smart company would data base images and compare before and after.

But my previous comment stands, law firms, such as the Florida based Merlin firm and the Texas based Mostyn firm are the police and will keep the independent adjuster in the game. Each insured has a contract, that is skewed against the insurance company, and the various states have reams of consumer based insurance law that is skewed against the insurance company.  The coastal states moved to protect the consumer, at the expense of the insurance carrier, but even inland Arkansas has a Fair Claims Practices act. The defacto fines are the settlements and judgements acheived in class action. Just let that satelite go haywire and provide inaccurate measurements for thousands of claims. Mostyn and Merlin will be all over, advertising and representing.

To my mind there is no question that independent adjusters are here to stay. The field will change as it has already changed. The warlocks on this site remember the old GAB form 109 and how claims were handled using it. I used it, a pencil, a carpenters rule and a rotary calculator to handle thousands of claims. We moved from doing everything with a pencil to where we are now, but the trade did not go away.

The trade may be like the railroad industry which moved from steam to diesel electromotive and computers and in the process the work force declined from millions to a little over a hundred thousand, but the railroads handle more freight than ever.

While we are on tec. have all you wind/flood adjusters ever wondered why the industry does lease out the best system for the 24 hour expected land fall to record which came first wind-water? on a tidal wave and high winds in a cat. 1,2.3 or 4. I say forget 5, because its a 50/50 or 100% if just one policy is pne the property. Back to the low value homes in MOLA in Katrina. It would take someone with balls like FEMA to come up with a $750 fee bill on a house with 7 foot of water inside. It would also take some very bad management decisions by a lot of carriers to say all the slabs in MS. was all water and put the light weights on the most difficult and complex claims .

If it was not from greed of one large law firm in MS this would have been the 10 times more costly than it was. in MS. If Texas does not go ACV on roof losses and we get another cane and the 80 year old appraisal cluse is not modified to give the carrier a 50/50 chance all 4 GOM and about 1/2 of the Atlantic states will become uninsurable for windstorm under the HO.

This is not trying to get rid of cat. adjusters it,s just a more cost effective way of doing what needs to be done, settle losses in a fair manner. This would make cat. adjusting a second job for many, and yearly part time work for many and also give the seekers of good people a smaller; but better pool to select from.

Why do you think vendors love retired militay people, because most of them are excellant adjusters.

   We are the carrier's insurance against fraud . There is no way that can be replaced. They would have to raise deductibles above the price of roof replacement.

No matter how you feel, get up, dress up and show up

If the right hand does not get you the left will. You you send out the best adjuster in the world to settle a hurricane loss, that would be great. But if this person could be cloned enough times to settle all losses. They are not really settled until you get a contract from the insured saying. I have gotten enough and they have over 2 years to do this. The attorneys do not want cases in the first month are two. This gives the homeowner time to build their case. They use the adjusters words and evidence to make their case. Better still is the "advance payment" thats the carriers estimate and check, that is all thats needed.

When the attorneys get involved the adjusters estimate is the first document looked at. When the lawyers get their experts estimate its a couple hundred thousand more than the best adjuster in the world,s "first advance payment". The carrier will always have defense attorneys file and answer, and try to get the vendor and the adjuster non suited (and they always will)

Now the legal justive system is full bloom, the judge in each county in charge of all the hurricane lawsuits demans mediation to help the courts backlog of lawsuits. Defense lawyers and adjusters are begging for "appraisal provisions, before the default date and the standard answer is "I will take it under advisement". Defense attorney and carrier gets cold feet and files answer and begins to attend mediation which is still in the wild blue younder range, its thrrow back in the pot and settled the 2 nd mediation for well over $125,000 plus  defense lawyers cost. I don, think ONE Ike case has been tried in Harris, Galveston, Jefferson or Orange County, Tx.

I don,t hink one expert witness for the defense has been called in all of TX. I don,t know one insurance adjuster, nor have I heard of one who has been hauled into court or give a deposition. I work for two small carriers and they do not know of any either. If 10,000 cases are filed  in TX. How many How many hundred years would it take to get a jury trial. I will bet all the Tx. Ike cases will be settled in the next year.The lasuits were never ment to be tried to jury.

It seems strange to me that I have been on the stand only one time in my life on a claim I was the  adjuster on, if they use adjusters as fact witnesses.

I think 95% of all policy holders are very loyal to their insuror, its the other % that cost so much. The appraisal clause has to be changed to give both side,s an inexpensive way to settle disputes.