Gale HawkinsPowerClaim.com  Member Posts:386  
| 03/15/2008 1:57 AM |
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Thanks John. While I am pleased to have lived to 57 it is a stark reminder of earning years left and the nest egg required to retire without having to downsize expenses to meet what a lower income will support. :)
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| 03/25/2008 8:59 PM |
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If I may ask a simple question in regards to MSB and Xactware pricing. I am a contractor that uses software estimating and have for years. I started working storm damaged properties back in 95 and have been in 6 hurricanes,12 hailstorms and 3 windstorms.I've developed a mutual respect and even have a few close friends that are in the adjusting community that know I write very accurate and honest estimates. I have NEVER had a serious problem coming to agreement with an adjuster until this week. It was a 23 yr old pilot adjuster using MSB while I am using Xactware25...The boy and I had the roof measured within 20 sq ft of each other and the valley metal is within inches of each other. The roof is 22 sq. He had 4400.00 and I had 6500.00 I have been using Xactware for several years and all line items in each of our estimates are identical twins. I've rad here, claimsjournal,insurancejournal,30 to 35 web articles on Pilot, Allstate and MSB trying to uncover pricing strategy,etc and read negative and positive slants of opinion. Allstate and Pilot have always presented somewhat of a challenge tht seemed to get progressively more of a challenge to get into agreement (particularly Charlie,Fran,jeanne,Wilma) but always ended in a close to reasonable result. How can they be that far apart.
John B
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| 03/25/2008 9:07 PM |
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Correction: 24.42 sq with 9 sq 2 story. Job is in Seattle WA
THX...John B
Ps. I pulled 17 xactware claims from 8 different claims from 6 different adjusters / carriers and they are all with 250.00 of mine |
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okclarryd Veteran Member Posts:954
| 03/25/2008 10:00 PM |
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I would bet it's an Allstate claim.
Any takers?
Larry D Hardin
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| 03/26/2008 12:25 AM |
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Larry, it is an Allstate claim. The issue is I've always worked it out to within reason. The homeowner gave me the MSB/Pilot/Allstate scope/estimate and it's 44.00 for mat'l and 45 for labor. + 11% O&P. Where do they get their numbers. The cost of shingles themselves is 43.25 w/o tax and labor is 50.00 without burdens or labor tax ( Wash State loves taxes- they tax labor in addition to sales tax on the contract. Any solutions shy of suggesting me becoming a nasty jerk would be appreciated. I like to keep things civil /professional with all parties involved.
THX..John E Blakesmith
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759 
| 03/26/2008 1:16 AM |
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Posted By John Blakesmith on 03/26/2008 12:25 AM
The cost of shingles themselves is 43.25 ...Any solutions shy of suggesting me becoming a nasty jerk would be appreciated. Explain that you need him to share with you some of the other "descriptions" for roofing material, as your software and his software may not be describing the same thing. Get him to tell you what MSB would allow for 25 year laminated, 30 year, etc, because you folks have the same measurements but something is off. So far you haven't told us what the roof is made of - but obviously you and the adjuster just looked at it. He must be calling it the wrong thing if the materials are that far off.
Some software includes the drip edge, etc and some you have to call it out, ditto for pipe jacks, et. He can drill down to the "info" thing on MSB and see what is included. Do you have the same description of removal, is he allowing 10% waste for Gable on the put-back, 15% if it's a hip roof or cut-up roof, etc.? Bob H
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| 03/26/2008 2:47 AM |
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Hello Bob Harvey, I appreciate the reply. Its a 20/25 yr 3 tab walkable,all metal measurements match.Access are the same but the pricing is way off. When the kid couldn't answer my questions he referred it to his manager at pilot and the manager appears to have a poor opinion of all contractors (can't blame him to an extent) and refuses to answer my questions also. I just got the actual Pilot estimate papers this afternoon.However the kid gave me the verbal amount 2 hours after we met. The only difference is price allowance. His dump and clean up totalled 490 and mine was 279 because I supply my own dump trailers and don't have the cost associated with dumpsters hanging over my head.I don't charge what I don't incur.I am befuddled because MSB/Allstate can't be that far off or the entire contracting community would be up in arms. Waste is proper,jacks are proper,valley metal is proper,box vents are low but not an issue,no drip edge. I showed the homeowner 17 different estimates from other claims to show him mine are to the penny in line with all the other carriers, the kid asked me for me to fax him comparables and I did with the private info blacked out(claim#.name,street address,etc).Does Allstate have proprietary pricing because other MSB generated estimates have been low but the adjuster and I met somewhere in the middle. I had an Allstate claim 2 weeks ago and I was 27.00 lower than the adjuster and we both had a laugh at the price difference (lack of).
Again,THX for your time to reply
John B
PS.I'm an Arcadia CA native
John B
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759
| 03/26/2008 3:33 AM |
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Gotcha. Something is whacked out, like he is using "repair by homeowner" instead of contractor - something is way off on the pricing.
I had to switch to MSB for one account after using Xactimate for 15 years and it was really strange... but if you roll up your sleeves it is possible to find the repair items and do a fair estimate. I am kinda buried in work right now or I would offer to write the 2 roofs up on different software and see what happens. Maybe someone else can volunteer. Or see if an Allstate Agent can share with you some claim settlement examples from other people in this storm because I cannot believe they are all coming out that way. The guy has to be doing something (unintentionally) that is pulling the price down and it likely remains a mystery because we don't see it on the printed page. Like it's the wrong zip code, or something is way off and we aren't at his computer screen to get into the guts of his estimate.
It's to his benefit to figure this out too, so he can close some files and get paid.
Bob H
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| 03/26/2008 3:53 AM |
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Bob ,Thank You for your reply. I was beginning to assume as much about his estimate. I ordered an MSB demo disk a few months ago but found it overwhelming as compared to xactware. I met a Crawford adjuster in Indianapolis that taught Sketch and gave me several shortcuts and some intellectual nuggets after I helped him on a commercial claim. I also appreciate you mentioning running t on 2 systems to see what happens. I can understand overoaded with work. Washington state had several wind events in the past year or so.Have a good evening and again THX..
John E Blakesmith
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759
| 03/26/2008 4:02 AM |
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Coolness. In my short experience with MSB, I just have to say that the software DOES NOT SAVE YOUR WORK until you exit the estimate. I learned that the hard way and tech support confirmed it for me. There is no "save" or "save as". It just saves when you close the estimate.
With Xactimate you can insert a repair item anywhere in the estimate by selecting a place in the estimate and pressing the "insert" key. I did that with MSB and got a "divide by zero" error and the system froze. Had to pull the plug and lost a large estimate. I use battery back ups and take precautions, so that one surprised me.
I liked DDS when it came out, but MSB needs a major modernization if it is going to approach the other choices out there.
Bob H
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Ray Hall Senior Member Posts:2443
| 03/26/2008 2:24 PM |
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This is kinda on topic. Ah this history of adjusters and contractors agreeing on a set of unit prices that would be a real benifit to policyholders who could get their dwelling repaired for the estimate by the adjuster who moved on days, weeks or months ago. The estimates are not useless as they do outline the scope of damage, and this is a very big point to get to the bottom line figure.
This is a general statement, but I would say 90% of all contractors who do restoration work will agree with the adjusters estimate. In the auto crash estimating field 99% of the repair shops will agree with the insurance auto appraiser; however, supplements are very common, but do not require a reinspect as a help desk is available in the call center for these justified supplements.
The repair people require a profit to do very good work and are entitled to make more than the handy man. The dwelling repair business has to police themselves or this will spiral out of control like health care cost in a hospital. Both sides need each other to survive. "Can,t we all just get along" |
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johnpostavaSIMSOL.com Member Posts:141 
| 03/26/2008 3:03 PM |
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I suppose back in the days before computers auto estimates varied between auto adjusters and body shop estimators. The insurance industry was able to set standardized pricing in the auto arena. Another example of "you will do it for this price or you won't get our business". IMHO I don't think this would have been possible without computers. Today it is happening with property claims and unless the larger restoration contracting networks wake up and see what is happening now that ISO is in the mix, they too will be working from a single cost database determined by the carriers. Sure, contractors need to be able to work to pay their livings but in the end, if my home burns down and there is a 10-20% difference between the adjuster's estimate and the contractor's (with the adjuster's being lower), human nature tells me to go with the contractor's numbers. They are the ones living and dying by the numbers - not the adjuster. Carriers need contractors but if restoration contractors don't begin to draw the line with regards to fair and equitable pricing, they will become the body shops of construction industry
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| 03/27/2008 2:48 PM |
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Ray and John, I can understand completely what you are saying. I am normally very satisfied with the end result of the pricing databases used in the claims/contractor relationship. I can see however the pitfalls of where it could lead as is explained..Software pricing though may be the lesser of 2 evils as it protects against price gouging by hit and run storm contractors and salespeople. I met a farmers adjuster in Charles City Iowa in 04 that used Simsol as he said he normally did flood claims. A IA that became a close friend of mine suggested Powerclaim as a secondary system to use as a comparables system as they were offering a 30 free trial. I went to do this on this particul;ar Pilot cliam but the most recent promo is over I guess.
Anyway on my original post, Allstate is taking the claim out of Pilots cat teams hands I guess and going to work it out with me.
Thank You also Bob for helping me the best you knew how with limited information.
John E Blakesmith
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okclarrydVeteran Member Posts:954
| 03/27/2008 7:48 PM |
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Bob, John, John et al,
I worked Good Hands claims through Pilot for many years and had many issues with pricing and estimate totals. MSB pricing reads like the Sunday comics. There are "multipliers" that must be applied for the estimate to be reasonably accurate for the region's pricing. These "multipliers" vary from region to region.
I would suggest, contractor John, that you contact the adjusters' supervisor and ask if his estimate might be reviewed for accuracy and ask if you could provide yours and then offer to reconcile the estimates to the prevailing material and labor costs.
From way over here, it seems that there may be a communication issue.
Allstate and Pilot really do want to pay the claim in accordance with their guidelines and the area's pricing.
Having addressed that..............I currently am an estimator for a large dealership here in Okc and the carriers do NOT dictate pricing to us. We do provide estimates that are written to comply with their guidelines but we get paid for what we do. It all falls back to communication between the repairman and the adjuster. If we charge for something that we did, we get paid. It's that simple. We have audits and reinspections and all that and those folks are just as welcome as the poor guy that comes in off the street with no collision coverage.
So much for the carriers controlling the industry. We control our own destiny and look forward to going to work every day.
Happy trails
Larry D Hardin
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Tom TollModerator & Life Member Senior Member Posts:1865 
| 03/27/2008 8:24 PM |
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We just got the 1st quarter data base from Integraclaim. We have worked a number of claims and the problem is, it keeps saying, no zip code recognized for that area. Damn, Little Rock, AR and they cannot recoginize a zip code. Something bad wrong somewhere. I have no idea what database they are using for a specific area. I just hope they are right. Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759
| 03/27/2008 8:43 PM |
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Posted By Tom Toll on 03/27/2008 8:24 PM
...they cannot recognize a zip code. ...I have no idea what database they are using for a specific area. I just hope they are right.
I called tech support about that twice when I started using that software a few months ago (I am fairly new to MSB) and they just said "don't worry about it - disregard the message". But if the pricing is off, it doesn't give you a warm and fuzzy feeling that the message doesn't mean anything just cuz someone on the phone told you so.
I have been on the phone with them frequently and some of the tech support people would also say their database doesn't have labor by various trades (extra time to "tie in" to existing) but then you get off the phone and find it hiding in another part of the database. So if their own people don't know that... can you trust them on the zip code thing... People get religious about their estimating software, and I know some adjusters throw rocks at Xactimate. But I know right now I have 3 price lists downloaded for my specific area, and if I go south a bit to Santa Barbara, CA it is just a matter of using that database when I set up the estimate, and it is done.
When I get an estimate from another contractor in my area, the first page of an Xactimate estimate has a code that tells you the state, what county or city, what year, and what quarter. On the other hand, with MSB, I will face East and have divine faith that it is recognizing the address I input, and the sausage coming out the other end better taste good to the people receiving it. Maybe they haven't eaten in a while and are hungry... Bob H
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HuskerCatVeteran Member Posts:762
| 03/27/2008 10:04 PM |
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Larry, is that dealership one of those combo/franchise things? Last we heard you were bouncing at the massage parlor. Around here we have the combo TacoBell/KFC's...so are you at an Earl Shibe/Mindy's Massage type of place? Would seem to be a natural, and something worth looking into. |
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okclarrydVeteran Member Posts:954
| 03/27/2008 10:58 PM |
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We have a special on a "Wax & Polish" that must be experienced to believe!!
Larry D Hardin
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| 03/28/2008 12:33 AM |
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Larry,I believe the problem is getting solved. I'm giving Allstate the benefit of the doubt they'll do the right thing in advance. Pilots manager to the young adjuster refuses to communicate as he has a behaviour problem towards contractors. I called the N Oregon office of Allstate itself and talked to a desk adjuster that was professional,polite and had a willing ear. They are taking it out of Pilots hands and going to work it themselves. He told me the office managers name and gave me her extension. I PDF'd my xactware claim to her and am going to follow up tomorrow morning. I appreciate your reply and all the help from everyone here. I'm a firm believer in what goes around comes around so I always try to treat folks as I would want to be treated.
I also agree with the last few posts Ive read thats unrelated to mine about MSB. The Fl canes and Rita created a lot of new adjusters out of sheer necessity. Everyone has to start somewhere sometime but from what Ive seen and read is MSB sometimes are in the hands of people that don't understand how to work it ( not trained properly...no fault of their own) and it's GIGO (garbage in garbage out) with someone like me on the receiving end to deal with it..
Once again THANK YOU and YOU'ALL
John E Blakesmith
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| 03/28/2008 1:20 AM |
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PS. I think xactware is user friendly,have heard powerclaim and Simsol also are a lot easier to use than MSB
JB
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