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You sound like a disgruntled contractor who obviously dosen't know the meaning of bad faith.


Best of luck.


Justin

Also, let me give you some basic numbers to ponder.....On an average roof most carriers adjustments are providing between $320-400 per square, and Allstate is coming in at approximately $220-240 per square. Shingle suppliers in the Denver area at contractor discount rates are selling 3-tab 25 yr (choose your brand) for around $85 to $90 per square, however Allstate is wanting to pay $68.88 per square for materials alone....Most carriers are paying approximately $40-55 per square for labor and Allstate is coming in at $22 per square for labor alone...

Let me tell you folks that worked these 3 hailstorms for Allstate/Pilot....They have got all of you to act in bad faith and believe me before I leave the State of Colorado the Attorney Generals office as well as the Colo. DoI will know all about this situation. I hope you all have O&E coverage or I hope Allstate N.C.T./Pilot has provided that coverage for you because look out.....This is gonna blow sky-high on the local news stations when the time comes....

Allstate is forcing their Insureds to contract with lowlife un-insured, disreputable gypsy roofers because most legitimate local contractors/roofing companies will not deal with Allstate here, let alone accept their bogus "IntegriClaim" adjustments.....And also know this much, Marshall Swift/Boeckh has also been made aware of this situation and we expect that they will be indemnified from this situation due to their cooperation with providing information and evidence to pin the tail on the Allstate donkey, so to speak.....

Oh and my brief examples of what Allstate is adjusting losses for...Know this much, the price discrepancies are across the board.....This is Bad Faith Folks!!!

As to Justin's comment it is bad faith to claim that you are using a specific adjusting software and claim it is legitimate when in fact you have gone into the adjusting software itself and downward priced all operations. I guess we will see if the DoI of the State of Colorado believes that Allstate has acted in "good faith" in what they have pulled up here in Denver. And Justin, if your an employee of Allstate N.C.T. and/or Pilot, get ready my friend.... :)

Justin, here is a definition of what "Bad Faith" is....just wanted to show you that what Allstate has done is indeed bad faith...

Insurance bad faith is a legal term of art that describes a tort claim that an insured person may have against an insurance company for its bad acts. Under the law of most jurisdictions in the United States, insurance companies owe a duty of good faith and fair dealing to the persons they insure. This duty is often referred to as the "implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing" which automatically exists by operation of law in every insurance contract. If an insurance company violates that covenant, the insured person (or "policyholder") may sue the company on a tort claim in addition to a standard breach of contract claim. The contract-tort distinction is significant because as a matter of public policy, punitive or exemplary damages are unavailable for contract claims, but are available for tort claims. The end result is that a plaintiff in an insurance bad faith case may be able to recover an amount larger than the original face value of the policy, if the insurance company's conduct was particularly egregious.

Now, taking this definition into consideration, the accused, Allstate, has indeed committed "bad faith" by not fairly dealing with their insureds....I.E.--they have provided amounts of money for said loss(es) that necessarily will cause an "Allstate Insured" to contract with a disreputable contractor, henceforth Allstate has shorted their Insureds by forcing them to get shoddy repairs done to their dwelling(s)....Like I stated earlier, we will see what the Colo. DoI thinks about what Allstate has done.....

Soap boxes for sale. Cheap. Only one previous owner.

How are you to prove that these other contractors making these repairs are performing shoddy work? You sound like a stormchasing contractor yourself as you have stated that you had worked Katrina.
Why would you possibly come on here and threaten any adjuster?

If the roofer signs a contract that states he will work for insurance proceeds with the insured which is what most roofers do.  Then how did the insured get short changed?  And who is to say that the roofers that roofer A picks up at the local home depot parking lot are any worse than the ones that you pick up at the Lowes parking lot????  Speaking of unscrupulous roofers after hurricane Ike the home I was living in got a new roof, after the new roof was installed I had roofers coming by knocking on the door and asking if I would like them to look at my roof.  I was curious on what they would say, not one came down and said your roof looks good, four yes four roofers in a row said I needed a new roof and they would handle my insurance company for me.  It was very interesting. 

On another note today I met with a roofer and a PA to inspect a risk, the roofer went on the roof while I was walking around the exterior, he was getting off the roof when I came back around to the ladder.  I asked him what he saw, can you believe my surprise when he said there was no damage.  The look on the PA's face was priceless.  But how could he argue with his own contractor?  What a great day. :)

 

So, you think Allstate is low balling and Allstate thinks you are price gouging. Is the answer going to be found somewhere in the middle of the road yet again?

ODIN SAID - Also, let me give you some basic numbers to ponder.....On an average roof most carriers adjustments are providing between $320-400 per square, and Allstate is coming in at approximately $220-240 per square. Shingle suppliers in the Denver area at contractor discount rates are selling 3-tab 25 yr (choose your brand) for around $85 to $90 per square, however Allstate is wanting to pay $68.88 per square for materials alone....Most carriers are paying approximately $40-55 per square for labor and Allstate is coming in at $22 per square for labor alone...

Let me tell you folks that worked these 3 hailstorms for Allstate/Pilot....They have got all of you to act in bad faith and believe me before I leave the State of Colorado the Attorney Generals office as well as the Colo. DoI will know all about this situation. I hope you all have O&E coverage or I hope Allstate N.C.T./Pilot has provided that coverage for you because look out.....This is gonna blow sky-high on the local news stations when the time comes....

Allstate is forcing their Insureds to contract with lowlife un-insured, disreputable gypsy roofers because most legitimate local contractors/roofing companies will not deal with Allstate here, let alone accept their bogus "IntegriClaim" adjustments.....And also know this much, Marshall Swift/Boeckh has also been made aware of this situation and we expect that they will be indemnified from this situation due to their cooperation with providing information and evidence to pin the tail on the Allstate donkey, so to speak.....


Odin:

As you requested, I have pondered the numbers presented above and have some numbers of my own you should take time to ponder. In this scenario, let's take a look at the actual cost to remove and replace 30 squares of 3-tab, 25 year shingles on a 6/12 roof in Denver. According to Lowes' website(Aurora, CO) the cost of 3-tab, 25 yr shingles is $62.85/sq, #15 felt is $16.50/roll, and drip edge is about $.40/l.f.. So, the cost of shingles is $62.85 x 30 sq. = $1,885.50, felt is 8 rolls x $16.50 = $132.00, 300' l.f. drip edge x $.40/l.f. = $120.00, let's allow another $500.00 of materials for fasteners, caulk, razor blades, and another 3 squares of shingles and felt to account for waste. Total estimated materials = $2,637.50 x 9% tax = $2,875.00 total materials cost - let's just call it $3,000.00.

You say labor is about $50/sq, so let's calculate 33 sqaures x $50 = $1,650.00

Estimated cost to haul off debris = $500.00

Total estimated cost(materials, labor, debris) = $5,150.00. Of course, we have all heard about the exorbitant cost roofers pay for insurance, offices, trucks, tools, permits, etc, so let's allow another 10% for overhead, or $515.00. Actual cost + overhead = $5,665.00. What is a fair profit for a roofer - can we agree on a 20% profit margin? At a 20% profit margin - profit would equal $1,416.25($5,665.00 x 1.25 = $1,416.25). Therefore the total cost to replace the roof, including 10% overhead and 20% profit margin(which is greater than a profit percentage), is $7,081.25. Since us adjusters don't really understand what it takes to replace a roof, let's throw in another $400.00 or so and say the actual estimated cost to replace the roof is $7,500.00. $7,500.00/30 squares = $250.00 per square.

Please let me know what is wrong with these calculations. You contend that you should be getting $400.00 per square, or $12,000.00 for this particular 30 square roof. Let's just use round numbers based on the calculations above and say that the actual cost to replace the roof before profit is $6,000.00 - if that is accurate, then you are saying that you "deserve" a 50% profit margin on this roof. But I am sure that you are paying your subcontractors and suppliers at least this much profit, right? And let's not forget your workers' comp. and general liability carriers that I am sure are also making 50% profit on you.

You may want to take the time to more closely examine the adjusters' estimate and look at the bottom line, instead of immediately trying to nitpick every line item. Allstate is likely using a component-based estimating system that details each operation required to replace the roof.

What you are insinuating here is not the full story. I’m an adjuster working this storm here in Colorado for Cunningham Lindsey. I have had conversations with both Allstate adjusters and roofing contractors regarding this issue you are referring to. Yes, Allstate does have their own price in MSB but are settling the claims fairly with the insured’s at the end. The contractors are negotiating with Allstate to get the fair and reasonable price required to complete the work.

Odin I think you should try to get real truthfull information before you go public was your dribble opine about the insurance world.

Odin, when you actually find a lawyer willing to name Allstate in a bad faith suit and you actually win, please, come back here, back to this board and crow, get up on the fence and crow, stand on your tippie toes and crow your heart out. Any Arkansas Dominicker rooster can show you how.

Without a doubt Allstate is bad faith knowledgeable and while being mentioned in the same sentence with the word bad faith, by a roofer, doesn't bother them, being named in a bad faith suit by an accomplished trial lawyer does. Allstate is not going to allow a bad faith judgment to happen.

If any company knows the residential insurance market in the United States and the legal climate in the United States it is Allstate.

Man I don't know where to begin on this topic. First of all I'm not sure why this guy posted on this web.My disclaimer is that I'm a contractor/ project consultant. I do have a little experience in the adjusting field
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"Most carriers are paying approximately $40-55 per square for labor and Allstate is coming in at $22 per square for labor alone... " at 40-55 for labor I'm not touching the job. I'm based in the Houston market ( I travel but mainly commercial work) and we are one of the lowest priced market for roofing.I have not seen that low of a price in a while.

" b) They use their "26%" O&P and $14.00 "Roof Stocking Charge" to justify downward pricing, say for example, 25 yr 3 tab from 158.00 approx per square (without felt, on only) down to $68.88 per square.
c) If a contractor actually becomes the General Contractor on a project Allstate then double-knifes the contractor back by saying that they are not entitled to a true 10 & 10 for O&P because they already paid the "26% O&P".

I'm not sure what all that means. I will go ahead and say it 10 & 10 is a myth! not sure who made it up. For my company to be profitable we have to have a gross profit margins around 35% . I sometimes play the 10 and 10 game but in the end the margin has to be right.

" it is bad faith to claim that you are using a specific adjusting software and claim it is legitimate when in fact you have gone into the adjusting software itself and downward priced all operations "
Not really bad faith just because they are changing prices. If so it would be gouging if you changed the price up. Adjusters move prices according to local acceptable rates and their research. Not sure but maybe thats why they call it adjusting. I find that most of the time the price guides are workable. Errors occur when associated cost are not accounted for in the unit cost and omitted from any other line item in the estimate.

"If the roofer signs a contract that states he will work for insurance proceeds with the insured which is what most roofers do.Then how did the insured get short changed?"

Many times contractors get hosed. Accepting clients can be as tricky as knowing what vendors to take assignments from. There are times when we have worked based on insurance proceeds. But only if the carrier is paying based on the acceptable rates. I can tell you from experience. In this type of contingency contract the contractor is on an Island. The insured all of a sudden starts believing in santa claus and the easter bunny. They shift their financial responsibility to the contractor. In contracting you have to use a form of know before you go.

"I have had conversations with both Allstate adjusters and roofing contractors regarding this issue you are referring to. Yes, Allstate does have their own price in MSB but are settling the claims fairly with the insured’s at the end. The contractors are negotiating with Allstate to get the fair and reasonable price required to complete the work."

Not sure I'm understanding you point but this appears to be the picture of bad faith. Allstate is suppose to inform and pay atleast the reasonable ACV value at the time of the loss. The insured should not have to get a contractor involved to get this fair value.

Insurance companies are many times getting real close to bad faith. Anyone in this business needs to understand this fact. being shocked or pissed about it would be like walking in a snake pit and being surprised when you get bit.

you can have the soap box back!

Bryan in your own words "but are settling the claims fairly with the insured,s at the end. This is simply k eeping the lid on contractors after a storm. You and I know the contingency contractors make a good profit on each job. You and I also know insurance restoration contractors would not be in buisness unless insurance campanys did not support them. Insurance estimates WILL NEVER BE "UNFAIR" as long as 10 contractors call be called on the phone and at lest 75% will take the job on a Competent adjusters estimate. You owe me lunch.

Hey Ray,

I have to agree with Bryan about Allstate.  They are the worst insurance company to deal with.  I have yet to handle my first claim as an adjuster.  However, I was an agent and underwriter for 10 years.  So I do understand an HO3 pretty well.  I am even starting to crack open a few CPCU books to more deeply understand the Commercial Property Policy.  I am very intrigued by a discussion of a Landlord rental policy offered by State Farm that according to Public Adjuster William Cook is an "open perils" landlord policy?  I am like wow.  I did not even know something like that existed as I am only aware of DP1, 2, 3.

I was trying to follow your whole Bubba Brown & Jezebel HO3 story.  I am gonna have to spend 15 minutes figuring out who all the players are.

But from what I can quickly tell is there will definitely be some subrogation against the company that fixed the VW leaky gas tank owned by Elton Jack. 

 

The DP-3 is a "risk of loss policy and it can be written on rental property, building and contents.

I so not buy into "open policy" . This is language used in court before a jury by plaintiff's expert witness. It,s also used by PA.s and some adjusters. The first time I heard "open policy" was in 2004 when I was setting at the defendants table in court in Conroe, TX on a multi-million dollar mold lawsuit.

All due respect to Bill Cook.

The term "open perils" is now used in the AICPCU courses to replace the older terminology "all risk", which was always a misnomer. I don't thing I have ever seen the term "open policy".