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Some policies are worded ' repair or replace' at the carriers discretion. If the carrier elects to repair they will often guarantee the repair. Resealing the shingles, absent other peril related damage, is a proper repair. The insured is indemnified and the claim is adjusted.

Posted By claims_ray on 23 Sep 2009 02:20 PM 
What if the non preferred contractor or homeowner uses an inadequate sealing compound?

Keep in mind that a significant wind-event that TRULY blows shingles to the point that they are "lifted" and flapping around will show signs of creasing, tearing, fasteners pulled through, SOMETHING prior to the shingles actually flying off the roof.  Could just be a bad case of neighbor-itis.

 

Posted By Roy Estes on 20 Sep 2009 03:28 PM

Posted By BennyBulger on 20 Sep 2009 11:58 AM
The check is in the mail.

Benny you sound like a real professional. You should meet my buddy "Ol Cletus". Good luck out there "Benny" ...... BTW Does anyone know where the archive forum on worm is?
 

Ah - yes - here it is.  Another reason to use the magical "search" feature:

Posted By Ray Hall on 27 Apr 2009 03:44 PM

... Today catastrophe adjuster have 3 brackets 1. worm 2. OK 3. very good. You must work hard to get out of bracket # 2

http://www.catadjuster.org/Forums/tabid/60/aff/41/aft/10757/afv/topic/Default.aspx

I haven't read all the replies in this thread, so advance apologies if this info is already stated.

I'm staff with a pretty major carrier, probably the best known name in insurance in the world.  Not necessarily p & c brand recognition, but just the same.

Anyway, they take a pretty firm stance on defining wind dmg to shingle tabs as tears and creases.  If its not missing, torn or creased then it isn't wind damaged.  This position was developed based on the Haag Engineering standard.

I deny unsealed tab claims constantly.  There is some logic to it.  For example, the original post about the storm in CO.  If 100 mph winds blow against a roof and unseal the tabs, will the wind then have mercy on the tab and move on to another roof to wreak havoc?  No, once unsealed that tab is going to continue to be lifted and pushed back.  Naturally this is going to crease it or even tear it.  I understand there are counterarguments to this and there are variables.  One thing I appreciate is having an employer with the nuts to define a position and stand by it.

Good post Mike. That's the way it has always been, if its damaged pay for it, movment does not mean damage IF IT IS NOT VISABLE.

I have seen catastrophe adjusters stand up and make this statement at a 150 adjuster meeting, " thats not the way I was trained" and some reginal vice president of claims with 30 years will say to the loud mouth from Texas. Well, you were just trained wrong"; whays your name. A whole lot of that going on in the cat adjusting world.

Posted By Mike Smith on 25 Sep 2009 05:33 PM
I know it is debated, but as Bob said, the most recent engineering reports I've seen show that wind strong enough to break a tab's seal, will not then just lift it a 1/4 inch and not bend it back or blow it off.

I've also heard mention of conflicting engineering studies that wind creates a vacuum on the back side of the roof, lifting tabs. To me, that doesn't make sense.

When high velocity wind hits a slope, the ridge creates wind turbulence, or lift. The lift is at the peak and two to three feet down on the opposite slope. A roof can be damaged by turbulent winds, not just direct wind.

I would add wear and tear (which is another form of maintenance but may explin why the pipe that brust is also not paid for) other than that minor addition you are awesome and dead on target!

Tom,

What is your reference source for this information?  Since I plan to quote your source if I ever come across this situation in the future.

When high velocity wind hits a slope, the ridge creates wind turbulence, or lift. The lift is at the peak and two to three feet down on the opposite slope. A roof can be damaged by turbulent winds, not just direct wind.

...the wind will lift fairly new shingles enough to allow debris to collect then reseal??

Yes, I have seen wads of pine-needles under shingles, sometimes they re-seal with the stuff trapped under the shingle - but whenever I have seen that there was very obvious debris sticking out from the sides of the tabs (like it hits you in the face when you get on the roof, not subtle).

The off wind shingles also evidienced noticible lengthing of exposue and being "cocked out of plane" to the adjacent shingle.

That would mean that the fasteners were pulled and shingles allowed to "migrate". they can't stretch... so likely they were yanked free of the nail-heads.

Posted By jdacree on 12 Nov 2009 07:41 PM 
In the long term would this not cause the same type of damage to the mat of the shingle, as happens when the homeowner allos leaves to collect on the roof in the vallies? As we all know when leaves sit on top of shingle long enough, and are allowed to colloect water the shingles fall apart.


FYI, in the event you had this damage only on a roof (not the roof you mention) there would be applicable exclusions related to poor maintenance or neglect. I have seen this type of damage claimed to be wind related, but it was not the case. Same with a rotten tree and limb hanging over the roof, which suddenly falls and causes damage. If there are documented winds at the time of the limb falling then there is a gray area and you really could not say if it fell from rot or winds, or both. But wind peril is covered so i would allow. But if my weather report along with speaking with neighbors indicate that winds strong winds were not the case i would lean toward failure to maintain the tree as the cause of loss and recommend no payment toward the loss.

If we suspect damage that will not show until later, in this case years later, what do we do? I feel strongly that the "bulge" has debris trapped under the shingles.

If shingles have a significant amount of garbage under the shingles that appears to be related to the DOL, that is damage. The issue about future damage that "does not show up until later" is not relevant.

We have to use common sense. I have seen adjuster photos showing 2 pine-needles under a shingle and they total the slope (I am serious).

What you are describing is something obvious you can see as you walk the roof (bulge in shingle).

And the tabs were down very tight, you should have had a putty knife to see what was going on under the shingle, because it was already damaged (I am not talking about walking around a roof un-sealing tabs, I am talking about doing one of them so you don't wonder if there is junk under them or not)

You described pine trees near the slope, and for what it's worth that is what I have seen in cases where significant junk is trapped under the tabs.  The only other thing it could have been is "cupping" or "clawing" shingles that are deteriorating in such a manner that it looks like something is under it.  Again, the putty knife on a single tab would have clarified it for you.

Jim Take some photos and a putty knife next time you see this bulge. I don,t ever recall seeing this .