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Last Post 05/08/2008 9:10 PM by  steph9176
Is this covered on any policy?
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steph9176
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04/20/2008 10:34 PM

    A friend allowed their neighbor to bring their fence up to their house because there is only a foot between the back of their house and neighbor's back yard. Neighbor's yard is higher up, has railroad ties along the actual property line.The foot of land behind the friend's house acts as a drain for water to go out into the street.

    Friend's neighbor had some landscaping done after the fence. Her gardeners dumped a bunch of soil they dug up next to my friend's house in that drain. It eventually back up and came through an exhaust for my friend's vent a hood in the kitchen.

    About two months ago my friend just put in some very expensive new wood floors in the kitchen and remodeled the entire kitchen. ALL of the floors are buckling now. The planks are also getting discolored so this really looks like water.

    Friend and his neighbor are now in a feud. Friend had someone fix the drainage problem but he wants the neighbor to put in a claim on her insurance to pay for the damage.

    Is this covered? isn't it considered ground water?

     

    steph9176
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    04/20/2008 10:35 PM

    Not sure if I mentioned this is in Texas.

    HuskerCat
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    04/20/2008 10:58 PM

    I'm trying to paint a picture in my mind of how water from the ground surface found it's way to the range hood vent.  But unless we're overlooking something here as far as the actual cause of loss, there would not seem to be any 1st party coverage (not a sudden overflow of a plumbing system, no exterior opening created by a covered event, etc.).   I do see, though, a neighbor that should call his own insurance carrier and also inform his landscaping company to put their liability carrier on notice.  Hope your friend took some photos before they re-opened that drainage area, or had some other witnesses to it.   

    steph9176
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    04/20/2008 11:02 PM
    Posted By HuskerCat on 04/20/2008 10:58 PM

    I'm trying to paint a picture in my mind of how water from the ground surface found it's way to the range hood vent.  But unless we're overlooking something here as far as the actual cause of loss, there would not seem to be any 1st party coverage (not a sudden overflow of a plumbing system, no exterior opening created by a covered event, etc.).   I do see, though, a neighbor that should call his own insurance carrier and also inform his landscaping company to put their liability carrier on notice.  Hope your friend took some photos before they re-opened that drainage area, or had some other witnesses to it.   

    In the last year since the fence went up and she put in the landscaping that pushed the water in we have had lots of rain which is out of the ordinary for Dallas. The neighbor refuses to call her own insurance company. As for the landscaping company, I would bet it's probably someone who does it out of their truck and not a real company but I'm not completely sure.

    So you think the neighbor's insurance will cover this if a claim is put in?

    sbeau4014
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    04/21/2008 8:36 AM
    I am guessing that the vent hood is one of the down flow types that the vent is near grade level? I would see no coverage under the HO policy of the person who is sustaining the damages, because as written it does look like a surface water issue. Tyey would probably have a good case against the neighbor under their liability coverages if they can prove that the neighbor, or someone on their behalf altered the ground flow/drainage on either property to such that it allowed the surface water to enter the house. One thing that baffles me quite a bit is how one persons fence (which I am guessing is on the property line) can be within 1' of the neighbor's house. I have never heard of a 1' set back except out in the country where there are acres involved. or places where properties were built a long time age that had common walls, etc.
    Ray Hall
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    04/21/2008 5:13 PM

    I am confused also. The down draft vents I have seen always seem to be about 3 feet from grade level or at least 2 feet above the top of the slab. I would think you would need a water hose to put water inside the house. I am just not convinced from what Step described is water intrusion from an adjacent property with a higher grade level even its behind a retaining wall.

    Another clue would be the accused neighbor seems to understand physical evidence and does not agree with this theory.

    HuskerCat
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    04/21/2008 9:37 PM

    Have they explored other possible causes of the loss?  A slow leak from the sink supply line, dishwasher or ice-maker line could be migrating under the flooring with no visible water above surface.  Or maybe wind driven rain running down the wall cavity & then under the flooring.  If this home has a basement & a view from beneath, that could help rule out those types of potential causes. Installing wood flooring under appliances does raise the floor surface and can create stress in the existing water supply joints/couplings if allowances weren't made.

    Going to battle with a neighbor is never a pleasant experience.  It's always a lot easier if you have a covered loss, and the big bad insurance company subrogates against the liable party.   Then the homeowner isn't the bad guy when demands are presented.  

    Problem here lies with an unproven/unknown cause of loss.   Loss should be turned into the HO carrier, and let them incur the expense of determining the COL.     

    steph9176
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    04/22/2008 7:38 PM

    Well I could see where the paint on the bricks had eaten away on the part of the house where the water was blocked. I thought the vent was in a strange place as well... being at the bottom of the house.

    The worst part of the warped wood floor is on the inside directly on the opposite side of the wall where the water was trapped.

    The neighbor is not cooperating with him at all. She will not tell him who her carrier is. He threatened to take a chainsaw to the fence piece that is on his property. It is getting ugly.

    Medulus
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    04/24/2008 12:21 PM

    Mike's advice above is good.  Since the HO policy is, in all likelihood, an "all risks" policy, the onus is on the HO carrier to prove it is an excluded cause of loss. 

    Then the denial of coverage (let's say it is determined to be ground water) becomes exhibit A in the lawsuit that will certainly do no more harm to the neighbor relations than already seems to be present.  It's amazing how quickly the insurance carier info comes out in the open when the complaint has been served.  Beats the chainsaw to the fence method of handling neighbor disputes.

    (You realize I was forced to make this post so Mike and I wouldn't be tied at 232 posts each.)

    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
    sbeau4014
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    04/24/2008 12:29 PM
    This taking place in TX puts a big ? on your statement "Since the HO policy is, in all likelihood, an "all risks" policy, the onus is on the HO carrier to prove it is an excluded cause of loss". After all the mold stuff from a few years back, a lions share of the all risk type policies were replaced with glorified broad form type coverages. The HO-B which is a bit similiar to the HO-3 is a hard thing to find there anymore.
    Linda
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    04/30/2008 11:43 AM
    RE: Property Lines

    There is a house in San Marcos, TX where the property line is actually in the middle of a cinder block garage wall. Strangely enough there are many where the property has been split at some point in time and wound up with less than desireable property lines.

    The last house I sold in a mountain town in Colorado had a property line that was actually the exterior wall of the house next door. Again, at one time the same person owned both properties as one with two houses on it then decided to sell one of them and had the new west property line along the exterior wall of the house next door.
    Depends on the municipalities if there is a setback at all.
    okclarryd
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    05/07/2008 8:23 PM
    I vote for the chain saw.

    If that doesn't work, one could always use "det cord" and just wrap it around the offending fence members, insert a fuse, activate the fuse, step back about 40 yards or so and watch the fun.

    'Scuse me. Had another flash back. We cut a lot of buildings and trees and structures down with det cord over in 'Nam.

    Sure is fun, though. And safer than C4
    Larry D Hardin
    steph9176
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    05/08/2008 9:10 PM

    Posted By okclarryd on 05/07/2008 8:23 PM
    I vote for the chain saw.

    If that doesn't work, one could always use "det cord" and just wrap it around the offending fence members, insert a fuse, activate the fuse, step back about 40 yards or so and watch the fun.

    'Scuse me. Had another flash back. We cut a lot of buildings and trees and structures down with det cord over in 'Nam.

    Sure is fun, though. And safer than C4

     

    Good thing he doesn't know about this site. I don't think he needs anymore destructive ideas.

     

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