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Last Post 12/06/2007 1:56 PM by  Ed The Roofer
Roof T.O. w/2nd Layer CDX
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Ed The Roofer
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11/07/2007 2:42 PM

 

Firstly, I would like to express my gratitude for all of the responses I have received so far and the additional knowledge and insight I have benefited from.

The job is progressing, minus yesterday, which we had to shut down due to 45 mph wind gusts which made the R & R of the plywood deck sheathing unsafe and also was allowing the 18" blown in insulation to get blown out of the attic, so we sealed it off until today.

Well, here is the current update to the goings on with this insurance deal.

I e-mailed the photos of the additional layer of shingles sandwiched in between the additional layer of plywood decking and was given the authorization to proceed as planned.

We will wind up replacing about 39 of up to 16 foot rafters that were deflected or cracked or knocked out of position in addition to 4 longer hip rafters, 2 on the garage and 2 on the house.

I have signed extra work orders approved by the home owners for this work to be done at a time plus materials basis. 

After I spoke with the adjuster, to confirm the e-mail correspondance, the insurance adjuster stated that they have to use their formula for the additional work from their software program, which I believe is exactimate.  He did not tell me what their figures are and stated he would have to wait until the end of the job to recalculate the adjustment.

What if their per lineal foot figures differ substantially from the hourly rates we have involved in the project?

What if their figures for 1" x 6" plank board decking is different than my contracted and approved change order agreement states, for 550 feet at $ 3.50 per foot?

What if they do not jive with my price of $ 2.00 per square foot for plywood decking replacement and dropping down to $ 1.50 per square foot forthe additional layer of decking and the cost of .50 cents per square foot for the additional tear-off cost for the extra hidden layer of asphalt shingles discovered hidden in between the 2 layers of plywood decking?

I know, this has not happened yet, but I would like to be prepared for the discussion beforehand, when and if these points do come up after the project is completed.

Thank You,

Ed

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BobH
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11/07/2007 3:01 PM
Posted By Edward Fako on 11/07/2007 2:42 PM

I have signed extra work orders approved by the home owners for this work to be done at a time plus materials basis. 

...He did not tell me what their figures are and stated he would have to wait until the end of the job to recalculate the adjustment.
Ed

The adjuster needs to get an agreed repair amount NOW, not at the end of the job. That's like a burning fuse, waiting to make its way toward the stick of dynamite. If all factors are known, and there are no unforeseen contingencies, there is no reason not to establish the value of repair at this time.

I wouldn't spend another day at the project until that is established.  It would make the adjuster's job easier if you could propose a complete and final estimated cost, rather than an "open checkbook" time and materials basis.  That is OK for the initial emergency, but once the dust settles people like to have a warm and fuzzy feeling of what the final cost will be.

Posted By Edward Fako on 11/07/2007 2:42 PM

What if their per lineal foot figures differ substantially from the hourly rates we have involved in the project?
Ed

If the "unit cost" for rafter repair falls short of your actual value of time spent on the job, you need to start looking for things that could be described as separate tasks, such as "temp bracing and shoring", "trip charge to meet inspector to obtain approval of repair method" etc. Just make it make sense.

The temporary tarp mid-repair to prevent the insulation from blowing out is another scope item that could easily be overlooked - and some of those things can be described as time and materials.  The difference is predicting it up front, not after it's done.

Bob H
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Ed The Roofer
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11/07/2007 4:00 PM

Thank you for the additional insight.

As a roofing contractor not chasing after insurance work unless it falls into my lap, I was unaware of those other items to be itemized.

I will be meeting the building code official this afternoon.

 

Are there any other items that could be line itemed to enable him to properly value the entire scope?

 

What does the exactimate software state as the costs per lineal foot of 2" x 4" and 2" x 6" rafter removal and replacement on a hip style roof where every jack rafter has to be mitered to meet the hip?

NW suburbs of Chicago, Zip = 60110

Ed

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BobH
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11/07/2007 4:06 PM
Posted By Edward Fako on 11/07/2007 4:00 PM

As a roofing contractor not chasing after insurance work unless it falls into my lap, I was unaware of those other items to be itemized.

I'm not saying you always have to break out those tasks, but when a computerized database doesn't = the real world, those are the kinds of things that are commonly overlooked (or not included in the unit cost price of the database).

At this point you should get the adjuster to share with you his estimate, and if he doesn't have one and isn't going to settle based on yours - then he needs to finish his estimate.  That is the point of reference to which all of this needs to focus.

A week from now you may uncover something both of you didn't see, but until you have an agreed scope and value for known work, it is spin-city.

Bob H
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Ed The Roofer
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11/07/2007 4:13 PM

Thanks again.    

 

Now, I am off to meet the building inspector and then I will also be calling the adjuster to see if he is back in the area for the day.

Ed

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11/08/2007 10:15 AM
Ed,

I hope you send some updated photos of the job. I for one would like to see the damages after you took off all the decking and how your work is going. You have gotten some pretty good advice from some of the "best" adjuster. Good Luck on the Job.
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Ed The Roofer
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11/08/2007 11:20 AM

By the time I got there, my crew had already replaced about 32 jack rafters and 2 hip rafters, plus the center main support rafter, so my digital photos only have the replacement shots.  Today, the remainder of the plywood decking that was removed wil be replaced and the shingles are sceduled for delivery this afternoon.

My crew foreman uses a 35 mm and when those photos are developed, I will scan them in and post them.

I moderate on a prettly large contractor forum called www.contractortalk.com and it is very frustrating for a newwbie to come in and ask how to solve a problem they are dealing with and never find out the ending results.  So, I will keep you guys posted when things are updated and will probably be asking for additional advice as well.

If any of you folks would like to get a view-point from a pretty solid based group of contractors, you would be more than welcome to ask any questions over there.

Thanks,

Ed

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Tom Toll
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11/08/2007 7:52 PM

Edward, I would put my 47 years of adjusting to work here, but that would be intefering with work that is assigned to another adjuster. I think the commentary, so far, is okay, but it is also dangerous for another adjuster to interfere with the work of another adjuster. The best thing for you to do is get the assigned adjuster to finish his estimate and compare it to yours and then negotiate, if necessary.

This is, after all, a catastrophe adjusters web site, not a contractors web site.

Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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Ed The Roofer
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11/08/2007 8:00 PM
Posted By Tom Toll on 11/08/2007 7:52 PM

 but it is also dangerous for another adjuster to interfere with the work of another adjuster.

 

Tom,

 

I am not looking for interference with the adjustment, just the knowledge on what items that I would be unaware of that may be able to get the HO's their proper adjusment amount paid for the work we are required to do.

I have sent e-mails and left messages, but have not heard back from the adjuster assigned.  I can not, in good faith, walk away from the project and leave the HO's without a roof over their head?

I sincerely respect your and all others opinions, but I do feel if the topic is pertinent to the field and placed in the appropriate category and that I am not misleading anyone by hiding who I am and why I am seeking the advice, that I am not out of place to pose my questions.

I respectfully hope that you would agree that this topic does fall into an appropriate discussion for this forum.

Respectfully,

Ed

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BobH
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11/08/2007 8:10 PM
Posted By Edward Fako on 11/08/2007 8:00 PM
I can not, in good faith, walk away from the project and leave the HO's without a roof over their head?
Basically you do emergency services, tarp, etc. as the first chapter. The "put back" is the 2nd chapter, and you really want to establish an agreed value before embarking that task. I think it is a basic true statement that Insurance companies do not pay claims on an unspecified time and materials basis. You could write a contract on your estimated time and materials and hold to that price, but not on "open ended" scenario with price unstated. I agree with Tom, and I noted earlier, get the adjuster's estimate and take it from there.
Bob H
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Ed The Roofer
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11/09/2007 12:27 AM

As requested by previous posts, I have the job progression photos.

The quantity of photos were too large to try to submit here one at a time, so I created a brand new web site forum, which only contains the job photos we are discussing in this thread.

The link is:

http://rightwayroofing.freeforums.org/index.php

 

You should be able to go to the only forum section in the site and click on the one and only job that is there.

I appreciate everyones comments to date and did not want to leave you guys hanging.  So far, I have contacted the adjuster again, but have not heard back from him.  I requested his adjusment last week and through this evening, but have not received it yet.  To discover the broken, cracked and dislodged rafters damaged from the large tree falling on both the home and the detached garage, the sheathing had to be removed.  That is when we discovered the additional and improperly installed additional deck sheathing on top of the old original roof shingles and original plywood sheathing.

Once this was removed, the home was in harms way by not proceeding with the corrective repairs and the new decking installation as stated in the contract we had.

I will aggressibely re-contact the adjuster once again tomorrow morning.

Thank you all for your input,

Ed

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Ed The Roofer
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11/09/2007 6:33 PM

31 views on the photos in the site I set up for this job.

Any comments?

Ed

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SSADJUSTER-25
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11/09/2007 7:20 PM
Ed,
I dropped by this morning and took a look at the pictures and to see how the job is going. Great PICS!!! This turn in to quite a job from the photos. One question after looking at the photos..did he had sufficent coverage. But your guys seem to be doing the right job as to going by codes and building. I for one enjoy your post and seeing what others had to say and tell their stories on roof jobs.

Thanks Sherry
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Ed The Roofer
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11/09/2007 7:37 PM

Why thank you very much for the compliment on the photos Sherry.

If you go to the forum link I set up once again, you will see todays digital photos of the job clean up and completion.  I just got done entering them.

I entered it in as a reply to the first photo post, just to seperate them from last nights uploads.

I do not have the HO's policy in my possession, so I can not answer that.  I e-mailed the newly created photo forum link to the adjuster last night and again today and also once again requested the adjustment from that person, but still have not received any response at all.

I would like to think that all of the work shown was absolutely necessary and will be agreed to without any arguement about its merits.

Would you feel the same way after reviewing the photos?

Also, did I upload too many?  I wanted to make sure that there would not be any room at all for doubt.  I hope!

Thanks once again.

Ed

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11/09/2007 7:49 PM

Ed,

I always say you can never have enough photos. I for one believe the photos tell the story and the estimate completes it! Of course that's me. And yes after seeing the photos before and the ones while you are doing the work I would have no problem with the work per policy and code guidelines. Again I'll go look at some of the new ones now. Again, enjoyed very much!!

Just took a look...The HO should be happy you have taken great care of him..Always pays to do the job right!

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Ed The Roofer
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11/09/2007 11:13 PM

With my nightly visits to update them and show them the original photos of each days progress and review and accept the neccessary update to specifications change orders, they fed me home made tamales on 2 occassions this past week

This filled out end of job evaluation for customer satisfaction will be my first referral testimonial letter written en espanol.

I think it will add to the portfolio quite well.

Also, feeding your contractor is a very very good thing to do.

I just wish that the adjuster would have made any effort at all to attempt to remain in contact with me during this job progression, so I would not be sitting on pins and needles wondering if or how they may attempt to escape their financial obligation to the home owner firstly, which primarily means to me at this point.

Gracias,  (Oh, I must still be tasting tonights tamales as I am typing.....burp.....Excuse Me!)

Ed

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Tom Toll
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11/10/2007 10:33 AM

Ed, I am curious as to whether the adjuster is a staff or independent adjuster. Sounds like he is not fulfilling his obligation to his policyholder. Service is one key issue Cunningham Lindsey strives to achieve, and so should everyone. This is a service oriented profession. Communication, communication, communication. Continue to let us know how it is going, please.

From  what I see in your photos, this is a simple roof loss to handle. The estimate write up should not take more that 20 to 30 minutes to write up and all damage to broken rafters, deck and shingles are definitely within the scope of covered cause of loss. It appears your crew has done an excellent job of repairing this roof back to original condition. Good work.

Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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Ed The Roofer
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11/10/2007 11:51 AM

Tom,

I will definitely mention your comments and others to my crew as to your appreciation for their talented repair efforts.  We do no usually run into such a high amount of structural rafter repairs.  Usually, we just need to sister in some bottom rafter tails where minor soft wood rot has occurred.

This adjuster is a staff adjuster for a major good hands insurance company.  Well, he is on their Cat Team, if that makes a difference.  The thing is, he resides only about 15 minutes from the property. 

Is there an industry formula rate on exactimate for mitered hip and jack rafter replacement?

Next week, we will be installing the gutter and downspouts and then be 100 % complete.

Man, I really like that Forum Board I set up to show an entire job catalogue of photos.  I am going to use that for future jobs for customer convenience to review their own jobs progress from their home or office computer.

Ed

 

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Ed The Roofer
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11/12/2007 9:47 PM

Finally today, I recieved a call from the adjuster.

A couple of nice compliments on me knowing how to actually keep him informed in a well versed daily e-mail.  His point was that far too many contractors lack the minimum literacy requirements to make any sense.

2nd compliment was that he found the Web Forum that I had set up for him to review very detailed.  It helped him out he stated.

3rd comment in regards to not being in contact with me during my inquiries to him during the project, was that his company does not wanrt the adjusters to deal with the caontractor, just the home owner. 

That attitude seems self defeating to me, unless their intent is to typically deal with a consumer whos information about constructtion methods and necessarily required work may not be understood by and requested to be done by them.  ???

Finally, he is scheduled to go and take end of job photos this week Wednesday to finalize his documentation of the project. 

He told me that he does not have any calculations done as far as the insurance companies adjustment figures yet.

I will update upon hearing from him or the home owners no later than Wedneday, for all who are interested.

Ed

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11/12/2007 9:53 PM
Ed,

Was wondering how things where going? Don't understand the part him not talking with you. I like to met the HO and the contractor so we can work together! Of course that's me again. Show new pics when you are thru. As always your doing a "GREAT" job I think.
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