HuskerCat Veteran Member Posts:762  
| 10/18/2008 7:37 PM |
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Ummm, Jed....Malvi didn't just bring this up. That previous post was from 2007. 
So maybe things changed. Time sure does fly when you get older...I remember her posts about this as if it were yesterday, and here it is next year! |
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Jud G. Advanced Member Posts:509
| 10/20/2008 10:01 AM |
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You're right, but the information is still in here and I hope for both parties that this was resolved with smiles on both sides. CAS is serious about their business. They require you to go up to Dallas for a one week orientation before you see your first claim. Thus, people are going to want to know about this firm before they put too much upfront personal investment into this firm.
Those that seek to know before they go come here and search the forums. For my sake, I'd like to know if it's possible to put up a hedge while I work for CAS so I can avoid a situation of nonpayment. So far, I've not had a problem and I'm still doing allright taking it step by step (again, knock on wood). |
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steve sanders Guest Posts:15
| 10/20/2008 11:34 AM |
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Just a quick word of caution to all adjusters. Be sure and check your paid invoices to make sure thay are correct. A simple math error can occur that if you do not catch in time can cost you $$. Even if it is just a few dollars it all adds up. This goes for the company in question as well as any company you may choose to work for. |
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| 10/25/2008 6:24 PM |
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This is a topic that needs to be addressed. I am owed to date roughly 1 year salary for the average "Joe", but my vendor has excuses after excuse from they have not paid yet to we have emailed them about outstanding invoices. I recently spoke with an inside examiner who i have built a smalll relationship with who stated that they rarely sat on a file more than 20 days  , but my vendor says otherwise. I am beginning to suspect the vendor is rationing out to each IA and collecting interest or something on the rest for a while. I am getting very hot headed about this, and will soon bite my tongue off if i don't say something shortly. One of my biggest complaint about all of this is the fact that they do not mind at all B*@tching and fussing about getting em turned in, but God forbid you asked about the pay. My feeling is if you can fuss, well then so can i. Where is my % on files that have been unpaid for months now???? |
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Ray Hall Senior Member Posts:2443
| 10/25/2008 6:50 PM |
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I will never work for a catastrophe vendor that does not a pay day twice a month. For one good reasons, about the most you can loose is 3 weeks work. I have worked for a Texas Auto Insurance Company many years ago for a few weeks thaqt could not pay their liability claims when the bull pen adjusters settled them (all of us). When claimants showed up at the door looking for me it was to stressful, some were packing.
I have only seen two carriers in all my years that held up the insured and IA's service bill. Underwriters @ Lloyds do not hold up intentionaly, just takes a while for the claims broker to go around and collect all $$ from the underwriters. The other was in the news last month. Small vendors can raise bank credit at the bank or the carrier on a Katrina, Rita, Gustov, Ike etc. I worked as a staff adjuster for many years and when I paid the insured I also paid the IA and hoped I never saw that file again. I have heard figs from $19.00 to $80.00 ever time a file is pulled to pay a bill, thats why it does not compute to hold up an IA bill. |
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ChuckDeatonLife Member Senior Member Posts:1110 
| 10/25/2008 10:16 PM |
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In some states, Louisiana comes to mind, it is illegal to pay anyone other than a plaintiffs attorney on a contingency basis. I don't know what state is involved, but I would like to know and I would like someone to research the relevant law.
"Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759 
| 10/25/2008 11:28 PM |
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Posted By GW Moco on 25 Oct 2008 06:24 PM
This is a topic that needs to be addressed. I am owed to date roughly 1 year salary for the average "Joe", but my vendor has excuses after excuse from they have not paid yet to we have emailed them about outstanding invoices. ...Where is my % on files that have been unpaid for months now????
That happened to me in 1992 working a hurricane. At first the invoices were paid, then they got more and more behind. Some Crawford adjusters packed their bags because of late payment of invoices, and we were green & greedy and thought it was great that we got their files.
Ended up not getting paid for a year, the carrier went into state receivership, and we got about 1/2 of what we were promised.
I would look into the financial solvency of the carrier as the first step. You can be very vocal about this issue without being rude or offensive. Get the facts, keep it professional, and be willing to stop the bleeding quickly if that is appropriate. Bob H
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| 10/26/2008 8:36 PM |
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Posted By GW Moco on 25 Oct 2008 06:24 PM
This is a topic that needs to be addressed. I am owed to date roughly 1 year salary for the average "Joe", but my vendor has excuses after excuse from they have not paid yet to we have emailed them about outstanding invoices. I recently spoke with an inside examiner who i have built a smalll relationship with who stated that they rarely sat on a file more than 20 days , but my vendor says otherwise. I am beginning to suspect the vendor is rationing out to each IA and collecting interest or something on the rest for a while. I am getting very hot headed about this, and will soon bite my tongue off if i don't say something shortly. One of my biggest complaint about all of this is the fact that they do not mind at all B*@tching and fussing about getting em turned in, but God forbid you asked about the pay. My feeling is if you can fuss, well then so can i. Where is my % on files that have been unpaid for months now????
GW, This sounds like someone I worked for in '06, exact same MO. I found they were either holding the invoices, or just not sending them in. We were sending the estimates directly to the carrier and invoices followed from the vendor. Vendor was not holding any monies, but was just not diligent in making sure the files got invoiced promptly. When I finally got with the carrier(something the vendor was very upset about), and found many completed files that were yet to be invoiced, I recieved a payment within a couple weeks. Just food for thought.
JWG
I know the voices aren't real, but sometimes they're right!
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| 10/28/2008 9:12 PM |
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Bob H.
Are you sure you are talking about a Crawford assignment? I have worked for Crawford and Company as a Cat Adjuster off and on since 1989 (mostly on) including Hugo and Andrew during which several insurers, for whom I was handling claims, filed for bankruptcy. Crawford & Co. has always paid based on the billing schedule at hand and the pay period involved. They have never asked any adjuster, that I know of, to await payment from a carrier. I know for a fact that they have paid me multiple thousands of $ for my services, for which they never received a dime, because of insurance carrier insolvency. I have never and will never work for a vendor who asks me to take the financial risk of an insurer's insolvency. I don't have the adjusting contracts, am not privy to their financial status and should not be concerned with their econimic well being. That is the one BIG part of the 30-40% the vendors earn. Don't ask me to do all the work and to take all the risk. Otherwise, we should all get direct contracts with insurers, then there would be no need for vendors.
No one is absolutely worthless, at the very least you can serve as a bad example.
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759
| 10/28/2008 11:21 PM |
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Posted By Bob Harvey on 25 Oct 2008 11:28 PM
Some Crawford adjusters packed their bags because of late payment of invoices...
I was working "daily claims" in California when Andrew hit, and had a lot of open files. As I was winding down, Hurricane Iniki hit Kauai a couple weeks later and my vendor struck a deal with Hawaiian Insurance Group. HIG had been in business 75 years but they weren't very diversified and took a big hit.
It could have been a management decision for Crawford to leave, and from your experience the "worker bees" likely did OK. We got screwed.
You have to fly to Hawaii, rent something or buy something to drive. And back then you had to buy a $350 Motorola "bag phone" cuz the power lines and phone lines were up & down for months. No digital cameras, $12 a roll for film processing, it was an expensive gig with late and low return.
Nice views, and the people were the most tolerant and understanding group I have ever seen. Very laid back.
Bob H
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| 10/28/2008 11:26 PM |
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Posted By Larry Wright on 28 Oct 2008 09:12 PM
Bob H.
Are you sure you are talking about a Crawford assignment? I have worked for Crawford and Company as a Cat Adjuster off and on since 1989 (mostly on) including Hugo and Andrew during which several insurers, for whom I was handling claims, filed for bankruptcy. Crawford & Co. has always paid based on the billing schedule at hand and the pay period involved. They have never asked any adjuster, that I know of, to await payment from a carrier. I know for a fact that they have paid me multiple thousands of $ for my services, for which they never received a dime, because of insurance carrier insolvency. I have never and will never work for a vendor who asks me to take the financial risk of an insurer's insolvency. I don't have the adjusting contracts, am not privy to their financial status and should not be concerned with their econimic well being. That is the one BIG part of the 30-40% the vendors earn. Don't ask me to do all the work and to take all the risk. Otherwise, we should all get direct contracts with insurers, then there would be no need for vendors.
Well Larry, can you give some other names besides Crawford that does not wait on carrier payment, PLEASE  . I have only 3 years experience, but is is 3 with no breaks doing daily claims and would prefer to keep doing daily with of course the hurricanes loads are whatever here and there. I have heard there are vendors/companies who pay every 2 weeks and maybe hold 10-12% in case of supplemental etc, but i have yet to locate one personally that had work at the time. I have been with the same group since beginning and i think this way of paying is total BS. I don't so much mind on small losses, but man when there are total losses unpaid (thousands of dollars) for months at a time it gets very frustrating. |
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759
| 10/28/2008 11:37 PM |
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Larry may have more to add - but to continue my response at the end of the last page: I have a great respect for the huge Insurance companies following my experience in 1992 (and again after Northridge with a couple carriers 1994). The very, very large Ins carriers are not going to let you down. I'm not so sure it was such a good idea to let them "become banks" as we have seen recent issues with AIG.
State Farm, Allstate, Farmers, USAA, Nationwide, they won't let you down.
Bob H
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Ray HallSenior Member Posts:2443
| 10/29/2008 8:46 AM |
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A person on piece work, no cure no pay should not EVER have to wait on the split to be paid more than the cut off date for payday I have worked this way on only one occasion in my years as an IA, but never again. If you do not have a reputation for billable files, some hold back is in order. This applys to subs as well as the assigned adjuster. |
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Tom TollModerator & Life Member Senior Member Posts:1865 
| 10/29/2008 10:58 AM |
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Cunningham Lindsey also pays on time, every time. They take a risk doing this, but their adjusters do not have to worry about a pay day.
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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okclarrydVeteran Member Posts:954
| 10/29/2008 8:15 PM |
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Listen, up children.
I have said it before and I'll say it again, loud and clear.
I worked almost exclusively for Pilot Catastrophe for nearly 11 years. I never missed a pay day and was always paid what I earned. And more.
Period.
It was not my concern whether or not the carrier paid Pilot and it shouldn't have been. My concern was doing my job as well as I could. Pilot took care of the money and they take care of the money very well. I've been paid by Pilot when I knew they were not going to be. This is not rumor, this is fact.
I'm sure there are other IA companies that take care of the help just as well as Pilot but I haven't had the pleasure of working for all of them. There's a couple of other companies I did some small storms with and was paid perfectly by them as well.
E.A. Renfroe, Pacesetter, Continental Staffing and Frontier come to mind. Never missed a penny.
I have been and am blessed. I have had lots of worries through the years, as we all have, but thanks to the Lord above and really good companies willing to put me to work, I have not had to worry about being paid.
I could put this down to good judgment on my part, but, considering my past ................................. Larry D Hardin
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| 10/29/2008 10:05 PM |
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Larry,
The older I get, the more I realize that dumb luck and good judgment are very close to the same thing. Personally, my illustrious career has been predicated upon good luck and dumb judgement. Perhaps it is simply a case of God taking care of the meek and ignorant. At any rate this thread has identified several vendors who pay based on the adjuster's work, not based on the vendor's accounts receivables ledger. That is a huge difference between vendors. I really think the ones who absorb the financial risk should should distinguish themselves on that basis. It would allow them to attract the cream of the crap. Any experienced adjuster should not have to take a chance about getting paid. Let the one sided, no risk vendors take all the risk taking wannabe adjusters, they belong together.
No one is absolutely worthless, at the very least you can serve as a bad example.
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BobHVeteran Member Posts:759
| 10/29/2008 10:40 PM |
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Posted By Larry Wright on 29 Oct 2008 10:05 PM
... It would allow them to attract the cream of the crap.
Priceless. Wow, never heard that one before. I only have half the years you do - but worked really hard and do believe I can consider myself the "Cream of the Crap". You got me laughing.
I am seeing a lot of "deer in the headlights" at the current deployment
Oh well, if they stick with it - they will get better.
Bob H
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okclarrydVeteran Member Posts:954
| 10/30/2008 8:33 PM |
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Well said, Larry. Well said.
Larry D Hardin
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Jud G.Advanced Member Posts:509
| 11/15/2008 9:37 AM |
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Posted By Larry Wright on 29 Oct 2008 10:05 PM
Larry,
...I really think the ones who absorb the financial risk should should distinguish themselves on that basis. It would allow them to attract the cream of the crap. Any experienced adjuster should not have to take a chance about getting paid. Let the one sided, no risk vendors take all the risk taking wannabe adjusters, they belong together.
Yikes, I don't quite follow that logic. If your statement is true, then that means anyone who decides to take a risk is stupid. What about the people who took risks and started their own adjusting firms, does that mean they're the cream of the crap too? Just so you know, Walter Pilot took that risk.
I worked for (and still do) the 'pay upfront' vendors and I've found that some of the vendors who wait to pay when the carriers pay offer higher fee splits (5-10%) for less work. Less work can often translate to savings of time and an additional 5-10% increase. Fortunately, a combination of my good judgement and God's good graces have allowed me to skirt danger and avoid issues of nonpayment.
I used to be a strong proponent of the pay upfront vendors, but my willingness to take on a little more risk has proven to be beneficial. If I've misunderstood, then I guess that just puts me in the 'cream of the crap' group. |
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okclarrydVeteran Member Posts:954
| 11/15/2008 7:42 PM |
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Jud,
That's not such a bad group to be in. Me and my other brother Larry have been groupies for years.
It's not hard to spot us at meetings. I'm the one in the dunce hat and he's the one taking a nap.
He's old, you know.
Larry D Hardin
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