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Last Post 02/28/2007 7:23 AM by  jtrea
Hail hits per sq.
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KBurks
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01/09/2007 7:20 PM

     

    How many hits per sq. of a shingle would warrant replacement of the roof  ? - KB

     

     

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    Tom Toll
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    01/09/2007 8:01 PM
    The last hail storm we worked in Arkansas, the Company wanted 10 hits per square. I think that varies between carriers, so there is no definitive answer.
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    dcmarlin
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    01/09/2007 8:21 PM
    As Tom said, there is no definitive number.  Different carriers have different criteria.  You also need to take into consideration the overall condition of the roof.  Even if there is a roof with only one or two hail hits per square, but due to the age and/or condition the roof is not repairable, you still may end up replacing it.
    Gimme a bottle of anything and a glazed donut ... to go! (DLR)
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    HuskerCat
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    01/09/2007 8:29 PM

    Tom's right...there is no definite answer.  It depends on the carrier.  I've seen carrier instructions that ranged all the way from 7 hits per square to 12 hits per square to justify a total.  Their fee schedules also differed.    

     

    P.S.  Was coming back in to edit, and see Dave's posted before me.  Ditto on what he said.  We'll also have to assume you're not talking about cedar shingles/shakes.  Those have different criteria discussed in an older forum as well.

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    KBurks
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    01/09/2007 9:16 PM

    Thanks for your help-KB

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    Catmannn
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    01/10/2007 8:47 AM
    Most adjuster's should be more concerned about marking true hail damage, and learning how to correctly measure the roof.

    David Houtz
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    RandyC
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    01/10/2007 9:18 AM

    The test square has four damaged 3-tab shingles, each tab of each damaged shingle has a nickle sized dimple in the center of the tab.  If  you lick your thumb and press into the dimple, a powdery residue same color as roof sticks to your thumb.  Amazingly, all slopes have at least one test square of similar damage. Lucky for us, the worst damage is very near the best spot to place the ladder.

    The gutters, turtles and roof jacks escaped damage from this storm.  How many hail hits should we circle with the chalk?  How many test squares should we do?

     

    Randy Cox

     

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    stormcrow
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    01/10/2007 5:36 PM
    Your description sets off warning bells, no metal damage and the actual damage is consistent not random, "ding ding ding'
    I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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    RandyC
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    01/10/2007 6:31 PM

    Thank you, Peter.  Normally the asphalt would be more resilient to a hail hit than the soft metal accessories.  Mother Nature is random and not consistently uniform.  Also, the granules used on 3-tab shingles are coated with a ceramic material that is harder than even the hardest density of hail.  The colored powder on the thumb would probably be crushed ceramic material.  Whatever crushed the granules was most likely harder than ice, possibly steel...like a ball peen hammer.   Sometimes, man-made "hail hits" are very close to the ladder--even an arms length away in a non-random arc..

    In my contrived example, only four shingles were damaged but each shingle had a hammer hit centered on each tab.  Even if those marks had been legitimate hail marks, the count should have been four....not 12 as I was taught to count the damaged shingles...........not just the marks.

    Also, I was taught to be wary if the insured meets you too eagerly as you drive up.  Sometimes (not always) they want to define and quantify the damage,  planting the  suggestion, before you have a chance to discover it for yourself. 

    RandyC

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    Tom Rongstad
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    01/11/2007 12:19 PM

    Deleted

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    Brent_Young
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    01/12/2007 5:42 PM
     
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    HuskerCat
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    01/13/2007 3:37 AM

    Uhm, Brent...check with Tom T.   His apostrophe key wasn't working, and it looks like none of yours are.  This is a freebee, no consulting/troubleshooting fee involved.    Don't go to the same place Tom did, though....$300 per key????

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    Ray Hall
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    01/13/2007 11:04 AM

    Talk about lazy. My apointment time  with roofer was 11 and  arrived at 10:45. Got on the roof and found some very odd hail hits on the front three slopes of a hip roof. The hits were in the 5 ocloock position about one inch from the bottom and about one inch from the tab punch out. All the hits were a neat round circle about 1/2 inch dia. the left 180 circle was slightly deeper than the right. The donut hole was missing.

    When the roofer came up I ask him what did he think caused the damage. His answer was hail damage. I ask him again he was he sure it was hail damage. His answer was yes he was positive it was hail damage.

    I then ask him to get on the detached garage with me, no marks, fungus, anything to be found.  About this time the female catcher of the contracters softball teams came rushing up shouting what are you accusing me of, I was able to retreat to my car and had to past the contractors truck and saw 4 foot section of 5/8 EMT in the trunk that had hammer marks on one end and a sharp beveled edge on the bottom.

    This guy was so lazy he made a tool he could use while standing up.

    Now the rest of the story, the company supervisor requested that my boss not give me anymore of thier claims as I was too confrontational, as I did not  see this was a  V & MM loss, since I could NOT PROVE it was intentional. (yes but my photos did)

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    katadj
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    01/13/2007 12:41 PM
    Whew,

    Now that is a true example of holding your temper. Guess you had a good ,morning, lots of coffee &, as well as being in a favorable mood.

    On the other hand, some may taken a different direction, by calling in the police, ( Filing personal charges of fraudulent business practices) reporting to the carrier SIU sector from the loss location, and photographing the instruments utilized to create the damages as well as the people involved would have have had a very deleterious effect on that insured as well as the lo-life roofing storm chaser. Given that particular opportunity, there are some that would have done that.
    "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new... Albert Einstein"
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    dparsons
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    02/21/2007 2:53 PM
    Posted By Ken Burks on 01/09/2007 7:20 PM

     

    How many hits per sq. of a shingle would warrant replacement of the roof  ? - KB

    It depends on what kind of roof it is.  90# doesn't take but about 4 or 5 per square, if it is similar all over.  3 Tab, 220 or 240 takes about 6 or 7.  #1 Cedars depend on age.  Haag says about 20 to 25 if they are less tah 5 years old and 15 if it is 12 or more. (I think.). 

     

     



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    dparsons
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    02/21/2007 2:57 PM
    Posted By Ray Hall on 01/13/2007 11:04 AM

    Now the rest of the story, the company supervisor requested that my boss not give me anymore of thier claims as I was too confrontational, as I did not  see this was a  V & MM loss, since I could NOT PROVE it was intentional. (yes but my photos did)

    The insured claimed it was hail damage.  You showed it wasn't.  If the insured wants to then turn it in as V&MM, it is his choice, not the adjusters.  This sounds like Farmers!  You prove fraud and nearly get assaulted and they cut you off because you are "confrontational"?  Next time, let them take a swing and file charges. 



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    Catmannn
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    02/28/2007 7:15 AM
    I'm confussed

    How many hits per sq/ft on top of a 300' tall rocket would call for the nose skin of the rocket to be replaced???????
    Would the adjuster get a two story charge???
    Should NASA call Dent Master or a local roofer????
    I think an adjuster could use one of those laser measuring tools too.


    Houtz
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    jtrea
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    02/28/2007 7:23 AM
    Don't forget rope & harness
    Life is good, live it up
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