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Last Post 06/14/2010 1:45 PM by  Jud G.
Oil spill
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Olegred
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05/24/2010 6:43 PM
tell us about emotional pain of tax payers and how it is our duty to alleviate it
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StormSupport
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05/24/2010 11:34 PM
Do the right thing, ALWAYS
~Meg~
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sbeau4014
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05/25/2010 7:43 AM
"business policy? give us more specifics on her business insurance."

Good question here Ray. Olegred, I too am curious about the comment made both before Ray mentioned this and also after it. I know you are just kidding around (at least I hope you are) about this old lady's business insurance policy, but just for the sake of argument, let's say she had a business interruption policy(or the condo building she worked for did). What steps would you take to work on handling the claim under their own 1st party coverage? Give us an indication on what would transpire cradle to grave on your claim with her/them.
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Olegred
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05/25/2010 4:55 PM
1. Read the policy.
2. Determine coverage
3. Get CPA on this to analyze if any income has been lost compared to previous years.
4. Recommend payment.
5. close the file

:)
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Ol' Ghost
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05/25/2010 6:02 PM
Folks, we have us here a real live throwback to the Neandrathal past of 'Slam! Bam! and Thank-ya, Maam! Perhaps we might invite our pal Alan to briefly enumerate the Bad Faith cases that are a result of the above claims approach?

Yeah, right. Close the file. These files will be like the Zombies in a New Orleans graveyard. They will keep popping up well past the End-Of-The-World as forcasted to be on Dec 21, 2012. As has been said before, the liability claims from the spill are no place for anyone but the grizzeled veterans of the liability world. And there my friend is where no real storm trooping property adjuster wants to be.

Now, if one had a degree in Occupational Health & Saftey with the HAZWOPER certificate, there will be lots of work being a safety monitor at about $400/day. Being not insurance related, this will avoid the nasty world of lawsuits and super-angry claimants.

Ol' Ghost
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Olegred
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05/25/2010 6:21 PM
can you tell me what is wrong with my little plan? :)
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Joe60
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05/25/2010 7:02 PM
I must have misunderstood the question, but I am anxiously awaiting some enlightening, by someone a whole lot more qualified than myself.  I would guess that the business interruption claim would not be very contenuous, although it will be drawn out. The real fight will be over the liability claims to BP, any subs, parts manufacturers, geologists,engineers, and probably the guy who delivered a pizza to the rig.
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stormcrow
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05/25/2010 10:11 PM
The business interuption wordings are wonderfully simple to read and understand. And the claims and issues are always straight forward. Any ole West Texas staight line hail adjuster could pick it up in 10 minutes. Make sure your E&O is up to date, and you might want to increase your limitis.
I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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Olegred
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05/26/2010 2:08 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...4887.story


now, THIS could be interesting... :)
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ALANJ
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05/26/2010 8:03 AM
Ghost

Let my heart start beating again and I will respond to Ole's answer. I guess this is why every email I get says we are looking for "Experienced Commercial General Adjusters". The word I hear is everyone looked at their big list of adjusters and freaked. Ole's answer is proof of the freaking out factor. Your right, these claims will be ongoing for years. In Ole's answer, why would they even need him if ever claim had to go to a CPA?

I did get a email from a vendor wanting a x address for this event. I didn't respond as all us old guys know x is not a factor. As most policies exclude business interruption for off premises events, I see working for BP or the Feds as the only games in town.
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wscook
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05/26/2010 9:58 AM
Some more legal pondering
William S Cook
Public Adjuster
******************

Will homeowners insurance absorb oil?

By Jay MacDonald

May 25, 2010

 

 

Here on Florida's Gulf Coast, we sit and wait and wonder: Will our homeowners insurance absorb some of the sticky, smelly loss should the BP oil spill soil our property?

 

Floridians are used to dealing with a boatful of home insurance coverages that indemnify us against the perils of paradise: federal flood insurance, hurricane coverage, windstorm addenda, sinkhole provisions, ad infinitum. There's probably even a hazard policy that covers those Burmese pythons that are slithering our way from the bowels of the Everglades.

 

But oil slicks? Nope, we didn't see that one coming.

 

Chip Merlin, founder and president of Tampa-based Merlin Law Group, fights insurance companies for a living. Chip likens the Deepwater Horizon disaster to one of those best-selling thrillers where you know who the bad guy is from Page 1 but you keep reading for the ironic twists and turns that follow.

 

Ironic insurance twist No. 1: Despite the acid-reflux-inducing news footage, the raw crude oil from the BP spill may not fall under the standard insurance definition of a "pollutant," and hence may not be covered under the $10,000 standard pollution cleanup provisions. Chip explains the subtleties:

 

"As a naturally occurring substance that hasn't been refined at all, crude oil itself might not be a pollutant under the policy," Merlin says. "A lot of the attorneys in my firm say it might not."

 

Ironic twist No. 2: Homeowners may receive some cleanup assistance under standard insurance coverage against explosions if it is determined that the explosion that sank the Deepwater Horizon rig directly led to the spill.

 

Ironic twist No. 3: Unless the spill physically smears your house, your homeowners insurance likely won't cover it. Many policies define "property not covered" to include "roadways, other paved surfaces, land and foundations." Direct damage to insured property is usually required to trigger coverage.

 

"Because the property policies don't cover land, the insurance companies are going to argue that there is only damage to the land and we only cover damage to structures," Merlin says.

 

Ironic twist No. 4: Should the sticky stuff be washed ashore by a hurricane, your insurance company would likely deny claims involving storm surge, which courts have ruled fall under flood insurance.

 

"The insurance industry is going to argue that it is excluded because the damage is the result of storm surge, which has been held to be excluded every single time it pops up," Chip predicts.

 

Ironic twist No. 5: Owners of beach rentals may not be able to recover business insurance losses.

 

"Most lost income claims on a rental property require some property damage," Merlin says. "Most insurers are going to deny those claims based upon the fact that they do not involve property damage; the oil is just floating out there and people are just canceling reservations."

 

Residential and commercial insurers will likely seek reimbursement via subrogation from BP's insurers for any oil-related claims. Federal and state agencies are expected to do likewise, as well as tap the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund, which taxes the petroleum industry to help clean up its spills.

 

Whether homeowners insurance will absorb the oil spill remains to be seen. Merlin predicts years of litigation ahead as legions of claimants and scores of class action suits wash up on BP's doorstep.

 

What do you think -- should homeowners insurance cover oil spills?

 

 

SOURCE:  http://www.bankrate.com/financing/i...bsorb-oil/

 

William S Cook Public Adjuster/Umpire/Appraiser
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sbeau4014
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05/26/2010 6:25 PM
Alan, Ghost and Storm,
"As most policies exclude business interruption for off premises events, I see working for BP or the Feds as the only games in town." That little line says a lot in the reason for my prior question. That is one of the most basic issues that any 1st party claim for BI will have to deal with in this matter, unless you are dealing with manuscript coverages, contingient BI issues, etc that may give some covereage here. And whether you are dealing with a covered 1st party case or a 3rd party case, taking just what was made last year and working up a loss of earnings claim for this year is a very simplistic and dangerous approach to look an any LOE/BI claim along he gulf coast. Olegred, I would recommend getting a bit more experience under the belt before working on those type of claims, or as Storm recommended, get a chunk of E & O cover.
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Ol' Ghost
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05/26/2010 7:51 PM
In this case a 'bit' is 12.5 years. Two 'bits' is a quarter of a century. Don't worry, the time will fly by like leaves in the wind. Then you'll be ready and the Zombie files of the Big Spill will still be here, popping up and waiting for you to start returning phone calls and composing long dreary status reports on each file.

Close the file??? These files won't close till the principle claimant and all his/her decendants are no longer of this Earth, and their law firms have decayed into the soggy Louisiana soils. Is this really your career goal?

Ol' Ghost
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CatAdjusterX
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05/27/2010 2:52 AM
Posted By ALANJ on 26 May 2010 08:03 AM
Ghost

Let my heart start beating again and I will respond to Ole's answer. I guess this is why every email I get says we are looking for "Experienced Commercial General Adjusters". The word I hear is everyone looked at their big list of adjusters and freaked. Ole's answer is proof of the freaking out factor. Your right, these claims will be ongoing for years. In Ole's answer, why would they even need him if ever claim had to go to a CPA?

I did get a email from a vendor wanting a x address for this event. I didn't respond as all us old guys know x is not a factor. As most policies exclude business interruption for off premises events, I see working for BP or the Feds as the only games in town.


I agree that the only gig is BP and the feds, However my thinking is if the Gulf gets hit with a strong or even moderate hurricane , with the oil , think about storm surge which in and of itself is deadly and destructive, now have that same storm surge contaminated with alot of nasty unrefined sweet crude and those beaches marshes and coastal structures , that is an ugly situation and what about those wind bands churning up the gulf and picking up surface water and depositing the oil/oily residue on many structures already having damage from the hurricane itself and now having the nastiness in every little nook and cranny being contaminated.
It would seem somewhat logical that if this scenario plays out as described, having the HAZWOPER40 certification could be required for us adjusters as these wind claims would put us in direct contact with the oil.
 
So I am thinking that is the only way property claims from the spill would come about to be anything other than being desk bound
 
Any thoughts ? Any insults ? JK
 
Robby Robinson
"A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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CatAdjusterX
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05/27/2010 3:02 AM
Posted By stormcrow on 25 May 2010 10:11 PM
The business interuption wordings are wonderfully simple to read and understand. And the claims and issues are always straight forward. Any ole West Texas staight line hail adjuster could pick it up in 10 minutes. Make sure your E&O is up to date, and you might want to increase your limitis.


I don't think that Worley guys are working any insurance claims as of now , just claimant's who have lost work,no insured's yet
"A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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Ray Hall
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05/27/2010 10:22 PM
I have never thought this would be a gold mine for First party adjusters. If oil is brought in it will on the flood insuror, or third liability claim. I just don,t think the crude will be driven miles from the beach and be a hazard on buildings, or require any cleaning. I see today 26,000 liability claims have been filed and 36 million paid out (open release I guess to control the claimant). On 5/26/10 BP announced all third party claims will go to mediation, the mediation team is directly working for BP and this will be TRIAGE adjusting third party liability claims. All you old BI-PD adjusters get on the mediators team, plenty of work for the right people. But I know a few who are waiting to see how the wind blows, also known as WOW.
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CatAdjusterX
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05/28/2010 3:58 AM
Posted By Ray Hall on 27 May 2010 10:22 PM
I have never thought this would be a gold mine for First party adjusters. If oil is brought in it will on the flood insuror, or third liability claim. I just don,t think the crude will be driven miles from the beach and be a hazard on buildings, or require any cleaning. I see today 26,000 liability claims have been filed and 36 million paid out (open release I guess to control the claimant). On 5/26/10 BP announced all third party claims will go to mediation, the mediation team is directly working for BP and this will be TRIAGE adjusting third party liability claims. All you old BI-PD adjusters get on the mediators team, plenty of work for the right people. But I know a few who are waiting to see how the wind blows, also known as WOW.


Hi Ray
 
Those 26,000 claims filed aren't liability claims , they are loss of income claims from mostly skippers and deckhands  affected by the Gulf closure , of the 26,000  they have paid advances to 9,000 for a total so far around 36 million dollars or thereabouts.
Deck hands even those paid in cash under the table were receiving 1,000.00 with nothing more than a phone call to the captain of their vessel as verification and skippers/captain's are receiving 5,000.00 advances and all must provide some documentation around 30 days later to be further compensated
"A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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catadj
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05/28/2010 9:45 AM
I believe most people consider a "loss of income" claim from a third party as a liability claim.  In this case the "loss of income is a "type" of loss and most claims from the spill would be considered liability claims. The "loss of income" claim is not being made against the person's insurer which would make it a first party claim and a BI under their policy.    The first party in this case "BP" appears to have accepted liability in most cases.
Take Care
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Ray Hall
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05/28/2010 10:03 AM
I  am not confused on third party and first party claims. I have worked thousands of both kinds.
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catadj
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05/28/2010 10:13 AM
Ray, my comments were aimed the prior poster not you.
Take Care
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