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Last Post 03/13/2010 9:13 AM by  RoofMates
2010 going to be a make or break year for a lot of adjusters
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Kemahsabe
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03/02/2010 2:59 PM

Why are IA’s needed if you have empowered desk adjusters?

As a matter of good customer service some companies want their adjusters to go to the loss, meet with the insured, walk them through the process, and hand them a check.  A desk adjuster cannot do this. It's a business decision as to whether or not an insurer wants to resolve claims this way or with the scoper/desk adjuster system. There are pros and cons both ways.  But the empowered IA is not going away.

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Olegred
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03/02/2010 3:49 PM
yep, no matter what happens, someone needs to be out there doing field work .... Me?
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Ray Hall
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03/02/2010 4:38 PM

Most inside adjusters with many years experience and one phone call to the decision maker can handle 9 out of 10 water claims on the phone.( I did not say others may be involved, but the real adjuster will not eye ball the risk. Hail larger than 1.5 inches can be worked the same way.

Thousands of roof claims damaged by hail are adjusted this way.

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Bobabooey
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03/03/2010 4:07 PM

When you are a manager at a large insurance company, I will be playing basketball in the NBA, so it won't matter.

 

I can see Olegred interviewing for a managerial claims position at a large insurance company.

Interviewer:  Tell me about your experience working foundation claims.

Olegred:  What is a foundation claim?

Interviewer: How many EUO claims have you worked?

Olegred?  UFO's???  I don't believe in them.  My mom said she saw one of them one time.

Interviewer:  Well, I think I know all that I need to know.  We will be calling you.

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Olegred
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03/03/2010 8:08 PM

I am on a stand-by for the deployment of my dreams now, wish me luck bobabooye.

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LENNY WENRICK
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03/04/2010 1:50 PM
Wow!!!! I haven’t been on here for quite some time and I see nothing has changed much. My vendor Cunningham Lindsey has keep me very busy for the past two years and I can’t express how appreciative I am for the work, knowing that there are so many of my adjusting friends (excellent adjuster BTW) that have not been as fortunate.

Then to come on here and have to read posts from “Oelgred” just sends me over the edge. All I have to say is any one who has to try so hard to convince everybody else how great they are raises some suspicion about their real capabilities in my mind. If you "Oelgerd" bare that kind of attitude with the insured’s (which I’m sure you do), I’m amazed your still working.

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brighton
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03/05/2010 9:15 AM

Steve,

Appears that you will have to delete and Tom, Roy and yourself will have to keep tabs on the children.

Rocke Baker
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Medulus
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03/05/2010 10:16 AM

Yes, for maybe the third time in a year I had to use the power of the delete button.  But I showed remarkable restraint, I thought, in giving the posters until overnight to do the right thing all by themselves and without my intervention with a heavy hand.  Some may call it censorship.....I call it properly dealing with ad hominem argument and indiscriminate slurring of an entire group of people, not a few of whom are among the better people I have met and remain among my closest friends to this day. 

Before I disembark from the soapbox here, let me remind those who use this forum that libel is not appropriate on CADO forums.  Neither is the painting with a broad brush of any group of people because of their race, color, creed, gender, age, or sexual orientation.

Off the soapbox now.  Back to the topic at hand, which is whether 2010 will be a make or break year for a lot of adjusters.

My personal opinion on this is that every year since 1999 (with the exceptions of 2005 and 2008) have seen many very competent and experienced catadjusters leaving the field because this is becoming increasingly about the "big" storms.  In my early years as an independent (1998 through 2004) I was able to keep busy throughout the year with minor storms and branch assist assignments.  Many had less success with finding those smaller assignments, and left the field.  The result is that the 2004 pool of independent catadjusters was perhaps 25% of 1990s levels.  When the 4 in '04 struck, the resulting need for extra claim handlers led to use of any warm body they could find.  No lessons were learned, however.  The cycle has repeated itself at least twice since then.  The failure of many to find small "bread and butter" assignments between the big storms has led to an insufficiency of numbers of independents when the big catastrophes occur.  Then many inexperienced people are hired again with all the attendant problems.  I expect that 2010 will again see the exodus of many good people from the field.  I hope I am wrong.

Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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Olegred
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03/05/2010 4:33 PM
Posted By LENNY WENRICK on 04 Mar 2010 01:50 PM
Wow!!!! I haven’t been on here for quite some time and I see nothing has changed much. My vendor Cunningham Lindsey has keep me very busy for the past two years and I can’t express how appreciative I am for the work, knowing that there are so many of my adjusting friends (excellent adjuster BTW) that have not been as fortunate.

Then to come on here and have to read posts from “Oelgred” just sends me over the edge. All I have to say is any one who has to try so hard to convince everybody else how great they are raises some suspicion about their real capabilities in my mind. If you "Oelgerd" bare that kind of attitude with the insured’s (which I’m sure you do), I’m amazed your still working.


you barely even know me and yet, you seem to have the audacity of judging my character....  I hope they provide spell check for you, every second word is like misspelled, wich gives a general idea about your level of education...  I guess, you are one of those no frills workhorse of an adjuster.... good for you, buddy....


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Olegred
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03/05/2010 4:39 PM

Medulus

I wrote about this constant conflict of carriers, trying to cut expenses when there's no storms and then needing people when the catastrophe strikes. They will always need IA on big events. It's all about being smart, working hard when the storm strikes, having multiple vendors to choose from, saving for the rainy day, having second fall-back job or business that make you viable in this business. Natural selection at work.

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Medulus
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03/05/2010 6:08 PM

Most corporate types pride themselves on the notion that they are able to see the "big picture". The actual fact of the matter is that they often do not see the big picture. Often they see a way to cut costs right now and make the figures look better for this year. In stock companies this is particularly valued because anything that makes the stock appear more valuable in the "now" justifies their job.

In reality, it is in everyone's interest to have a pool of experienced, efficient, honest, knowledgeable, creative, and personable catastrophe adjusters from which to draw. There are ways to do this without spending inordinate amounts of money.  I will keep those to myself, however. Down the road - if a carrier wants to hire me as a consultant - I will gladly share my ideas with them. For a small to medium sized insurance carrier, I could likely save them several millions to tens of millions one a catastrophe.  In some cases this would be before the reinsurance layer kicks in.  In others it might result in a lower cost of future reinsurance.  Therefore, I choose not to share them for free.

We will be working on some of these ideas here at ICW because they pay my salary at the present time.  That's the other reason I will not share them here.  We expect to be one up on our competition - both before and after the catastrophe.

As for other carriers....well, most people know the definition of insanity.....doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Most carriers will continue to repeat the same patterns over and over and then tell us, with a superior and haughty air, that they will never use catadjusters again because they have such a bad result. Then the next "big one" will happen and the carriers will spend hundreds of millions in uneccessary litigation and claims expense because they failed to throw a few bones to competent catastrophe adjusters during the slower years.  Consequently many will have again left the field and they will again be dealing with incompetent and unseasoned adjusters.   And the cycle will repeat.

Meanwhile, congratulations to those who are working as independents. And, Olegred, you forgot one of the components -- a great deal of luck.

Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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Ray Hall
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03/06/2010 12:47 PM

I think we will see more FICUS TREE type losses in the future. One person will measure and photograph on a tick sheet with the estimating program of choice, a distant adjuster scopes from the sheets , photos and then another distant person cranks out the estimate and the final person gets an agreed settlement, person 2 & 3 can work any hour of the day. This will be a faster way to close losses, less cost and more quality control.

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joe60
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03/06/2010 8:10 PM

Ray,

  I respect your experience as much as anyone, but I believe your FICUS TREE example would be an electronic data ( not paperwork) nightmare for the carriers. Imagine trying to explain to the insured where his or her estimate is at any time. I expect a system closer to prefered venders, used for auto claims, would be faster and more efficient, and would require a smaller staff to enforce standards and specifications. Verification is the key.

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Ray Hall
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03/06/2010 9:17 PM

All four persons in my example are independant contractors. Four people will turned in one file . The carrier would only see the finished product.

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jdacree
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03/07/2010 9:30 AM
Ray, up here where we are selling roofs we are using your system effectivly. I measure and scope, then PDF that information to the man inside doing the estimate (this person is doig estimates for 20 people). I retrieve the estimate and scope notes to meet with the adjuster. The adjuster and I agree on the scope of damages (avg time on property 30 mins.) where he then (sometimes using my notes) completes his claim and gets the ACV check mailed.

As you have pointed out at the sharp end of the stick, I need daylight to complete my scope, and we need daylight for the adjuster and I to verify the damage (this step would be removed in the FICUS example). ALL of the other activities can be done at any time of the day or week, good or bad weather! The most important element of this is a scope that shows all damages, in the most intimate detail possible, drawn/worded/photographed in a manner in which the person doing the estimate does not have to guess at anything.

I would be happy to work in an enviornment such as this for a carrier or IA as either the site representative. or inside doing the estimates on the software for a group of personnel working in the field. This system DOES work well.

This system is proven to work, effectivly and economically.
Jim Acree Stupidity is the art of not trying to learn Ignorance is the lack of opportunity to learn I am ignorant
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Ray Hall
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03/07/2010 10:36 PM

On all storms I have ever seen, roof claims only and some ceiling stains, you only need about 3 lines if R & R the roof only this is 3 codes in each program, what is so hard about that, the photo,s tell the story.Jim, you are now a hail expert after your first storm. Keep good notes and files and send them to the large vendors and you will be on your way. Tell the vendors you will start at 50% and want a 5% increase when your production gets up to the one year adjusters, then another 5% when you get up to the the three year adjusters and then 65% when you are running and gunning with the best of the roof thumpers. You have what it take's.and will be around for a long time

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Ray Hall
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03/07/2010 11:12 PM

Did any of you people who are waiting for work hear about the hail storm that hit Houston on Feb. 15, 2010 well it was a very good storm for me being a local guy. I got a call from a large carrier from Bermuda that had 1,000  houses in one small bedroom community and wanted me to inspect the houses after placing them on a map. This took me two days, but I started out in the 4 corners of the hail map and worked my way inside. 400 of the 1000 houses were out side of the hail map.The 600 house's inside the heavy hail(baseball size all had 3 D  30 year comp shingles that was 3 yearsthe oldest to   3 months. The roofs had 6 differant floor plans, really 12 as they had left hands and rights hands. I got a photo fron Eagle view measured 6 roofs and settled 600 losses before my birth day on March 3rd. I had to get my wife, son and daughter in law to help me make all the calls and send out the settlement checks, but I did have a good birthday.

I will have to do some clean up for the next year or so, but I dont travel on storms.

**** I made all this up, but see how easy it is with baseball size hail, Oh by the way this same underwriter wants me to run the next storm for $50.00 per house . I agreed, but we will have to send a satallite photo to the roofer and unless the roofer can prove our measurments are short, the original adjustment stands. Any comments from you 3 day school adjusters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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mgfirment
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03/08/2010 9:30 AM

Did any of you people who are waiting for work hear about the hail storm that hit Houston on Feb. 15, 2010 well it was a very good storm for me being a local guy. I got a call from a large carrier from Bermuda that had 1,000  houses in one small bedroom community and wanted me to inspect the houses after placing them on a map. This took me two days, but I started out in the 4 corners of the hail map and worked my way inside. 400 of the 1000 houses were out side of the hail map.The 600 house's inside the heavy hail(baseball size all had 3 D  30 year comp shingles that was 3 yearsthe oldest to   3 months. The roofs had 6 differant floor plans, really 12 as they had left hands and rights hands. I got a photo fron Eagle view measured 6 roofs and settled 600 losses before my birth day on March 3rd. I had to get my wife, son and daughter in law to help me make all the calls and send out the settlement checks, but I did have a good birthday.

I will have to do some clean up for the next year or so, but I dont travel on storms.

**** I made all this up, but see how easy it is with baseball size hail, Oh by the way this same underwriter wants me to run the next storm for $50.00 per house . I agreed, but we will have to send a satallite photo to the roofer and unless the roofer can prove our measurments are short, the original adjustment stands. Any comments from you 3 day school adjusters.

 

You have dramatically oversimplified things in this scenario.  Any carrier that agreed to this type of claims-handling philosophy would be asking for trouble and would be providing their customers with horrendous service.  I am sure that you have witnessed the destruction that baseball-sized hail can produce, but let's think about this a little more clearly.  How do you propose handling damages to gutters, downspouts, fascia, windows, screens, window bead, siding, fencing, patio furniture, sheds, mailboxes, doghouses, swimming pools, trampolines, swing sets, yard ornaments, lawn mowers, BBQ Grills, etc.?  A good adjuster makes a thorough assessment of all damages and addresses all coverage issues as well.  How about the elderly insured that doesn't understand why her vehicle and rose bushes aren't covered.  Isn't it preferable to have a professional, well-mannered, competent adjuster explain face-face to the insured what is and isn't covered?  A good independent adjuster can a be a valuable asset to any carrier, and can even be a marketing tool that helps retain existing customers and attract new customers through word-of-mouth testimonies from insureds.  I don't think that roofers, contractors, scopers, pencil-pushers, customer service reps, or satellite imaging will ever be able to take the place of a good independent adjuster.  Companies that adopt these philosophies to try to save a few bucks, will ultimately lose more money through loss of business, costly marketing strategies, and litigation. In addition, why in the world would you ever agree to take any assignment for $50.00 per dwelling?  If you have as much training, knowledge, and experience as it sounds like you do, you should realize your own value and worth instead of competing by offering the cheapest service.  You do realize that this approach to claims-handling would kill the profession that you claim to love.

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Kemahsabe
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03/08/2010 1:36 PM

mgfirment,

Great post!  I had previously said on this thread that as a matter of good customer service some companies want their adjusters to go to the loss, meet with the insured, walk them through the process, and hand them a check.  But it was buried among the posts saying that all that is needed is a picture taker, a satellite image and a desk adjuster hundreds of miles away who will eventually mail a check.  The insured is an afterthought, if they're thought of at all.  An extensive (private) study has shown that 75% of insureds that change carriers after a loss do so because of the way the claim was handled and how they were treated, and not because of how much they were paid.  The carriers of last resort may not care about customer service, but those that are competing for premium dollars do.  Those are the people I want to work for.  They'll be hiring competent IA's for a long time.

David

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Bobabooey
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03/08/2010 2:20 PM
Most people buy insurance based on price and price alone. People don't buy insurance based on their adjusters. The only thing they know about the adjusters is whatever the agent or commercial tells them.

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