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Last Post 02/23/2009 6:47 PM by  JJ308
Awesome family business in the making?
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Chris and Sandi
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10/21/2008 10:17 PM
    My husband and I are a young couple with big dreams about this business. My father has taken my husband under his wing for the past several months and has been teaching him auto appraisal work. As a family we have read about as much as we can get our hands on about cat adjusting. We have found out there is not much for auto appraisers in the cat line of work so we have signed up for classes to receive our Texas all lines adjusters  license. My parents and brother have recently finished the course, received their license and are in Texas right now taking adjuster 101 and xactimate classes with us staffing and adjusting while we are in NC running the auto appraiser business until they get back then we will leave for Texas shortly after for our classes. We have all invested this crazy amount of money, as I am sure everyone is very aware of, into laptops, schooling, travel expenses and even clothing and we can already see many more investments coming. All of this to say we are all very dedicated to this dream. I have read mostly discouraging stories from beginners and I am dedicated to make our family business a successful, rewarding and exciting adventure. My husband is currently working on the weekends at Walmart Distribution Center and training with my father and brother during the week while my mother and I clean houses. We are anticipating a great while before we actually get sent off for cat duty seeing that experience is a must and none of us have any to speak of so we already plan to take certification classes like flood, wind and so on until we can get a job. Is there anything anyone can offer my family and I, anything from advice to an encouraging word? Thanks for your time in reading my long posting!
    Sandi
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    okclarryd
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    10/21/2008 10:27 PM
    Well, Sandi, there's lots of us here that wish you the best.

    Pilot Catastrophe has a good school with lots of hands on training. And, it's taught by adjusters and managers who can talk the talk AND walk the walk. There's some really good other schools out there that may be more thorough but I can't say as I haven't been to them. Wardlaw has a training center staffed by adjusters also.

    I think there's a couple of threads on this site about training and schools. Review them and get the general consensus as to who is good and who isn't.

    That being said, there's no school like experience. Get hooked up with a local firm and get your foot in the door.
    Larry D Hardin
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    Ray Hall
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    10/22/2008 10:40 PM
    If your family decided you wanted to open a Master Plumbers Business, how would you go about doing that. The best way would be to get a mechanical degree at a good engineering school for one member and then work for the largest firm in NC for 5 years and then have good bank credit to survive the first few years.
     
    A professional claims adjuster in property and casualty takes about 5 years after you have a 4 year college degree to get on with an insurance company who trains you extensivly for 6 months and then starts you out on non complex losses for about 1 1/2 years.
     
    A catastrophe adjuster working for their father or uncle, can get by after about 6 months of solid work or about 180 days.  BUT if no storms hit that need thousands of adjusters you do not earn one cent. Remember Katrina- Rita summer early fall of 2005 to September 13, 2008. thats 37 months thousands of people did not work ONE insurance property claim.  If you can write an estimate on an auto crash and cover 100 mile radius around a major city, you will do much  better and have a fraction of the expense. I made less than $20,000. on regular property claims in the 37 month period. 50% of that amount was on two very large fire losses in the 1/2 million dollar range that took 82 billable hours on one and 60 hours on the other. The hours were no longer than 6 hours to 4 hours over a two month period. I made more on about 50 comlex general liability claims in the 37 month time frame. I really grossed less than $1,000. per week.  or about 20 hours per week billable hours. Of course regular claims are not assigned to Cat. adjusters, but I am an EGA with over 50 years experience as an all lines adjuster.      I have put in my 2 cents for what it may be worth. But it can be done if the weather is very bad.
     
    When I first hit the storm trail the old timers had a saying, If you are not working on Easter, Memorial Day, the 4th of July and labor day and do not work the winter storms in California you will have a bad year. Thats the truth. Ask the old timers it takes 6 to 7 months on the road to make it. I also say If you worked for Brake Check and worked a double shift 6 days a week you would come out with about the same $$ and sleep in your own bed, and see you loved ones several hours per week. May be able to go to football games for the kids or church on Sunday.  Good luck
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    HuskerCat
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    10/22/2008 10:59 PM
    Meant for a different thread, but maybe appropriate for here....?
     
    "To those who can dream there is no such place as faraway." Unknown
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    ChuckDeaton
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    10/30/2008 9:07 PM
    50% of the population of the United States makes less than $32,000 a year. Don't expect that you are going to do alot better than that at Cat Adjusting. One of these days you may learn enough to move from residential losses to something that pays more, but that will be years away for a noobie.
    "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt
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    RandyC
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    10/31/2008 11:56 AM
    A decade ago we had an Art gallery and custom frame shop in Carrollton, Texas. A woman-- a former customer-- came in looked me square in the eye and told me after many years of being a housewife she had decided to re-enter the workforce. She had spent some time researching her abilities, her education, and her desires.

    Again, looking me square in the eye, she said, "I've decided I'm going to work here. I want to work in this gallery!"

    I told her we really didn't need any extra help. She said she had made up her mind. "You don't have to pay me anything! I just need to go back to work, get some experience, and I've decided I want to start here."

    I hired her part time at a decent starting wage. Soon she was full time; I couldn't afford not to use an asset like her. She was the best employee I've ever had.

    Expecting to be sent out to estimate a large catostrophic loss without extensive training is CRAZY. However, for a determined and creative person there are niches of opportunity. For instance, Ike did extensive damage in Harris County. I had a large number of steep and high claims with complicated interior designs with angled rooms with open floors going one way and open ceilings going another.

    Texas law forbids putting home design details online, but they have a records room where most home floor plans have been submitted, approved, and recorded. One can access these records by showing up in person, paying a small fee, then printing off a floor plan for each claim.

    I wanted to do this, but didn't have the time. Had a resolute person showed up, like the lady I mentioned at the beginning of this article, willing to do this footwork for me, I might have been willing to give her a shot. Every bit of experience leads to the next experience.


    One can't force their way into this business, but they can find ways to contribute if they are creative.

    I've done a lot of difficult work in my life. I've changed out working lead pumps where my shirt caught on fire three times before I could get it changed. I've pulled cable under buildings where there was three inches of mud slosh for two hundred feet, but it had to be done. I've stood at the top of a rickety 14 ft. step ladder on plywood over church pews, reaching as high as I could reach to have a little recess light grill fall. I could only watch as it came down to hit me between the eyes. To move my head would have been to fall. Adjusting claims is the hardest job I've ever done. It is NOT the most lucrative job I've ever had. While you are working cat claims, there is no time for life other than work. You don't have to be super human to do it, but you do have to be super committed.

    A lot of people will invest a time and money in this business, only to find out they don't really want to pay the personal price required. It is INTENSE! Don't turn a blind eye or a deaf ear to the warnings people give you about the difficulty of it. Days into our first storm, at one o'clock in the morning, my wife started to cry in frustration. On top of everything, they'd just given us more claims. They changed the guidelines. My measurements didn't add up; I was putting pressure on her; they were putting pressure on me. Nothing was going right at all. "That's it! We can't do this! We'll turn the claims back tomorrow and just go home.

    I woke up at 4:30 and my wife was at the keyboard, eyes dry.

    "This sucker is DONE!" she said.

    If the thrill of that kind of personal victory is worth the pain it takes to achieve, then adjusting might be right for you. If it is only the lure of easy money, there is no easy money here.

    Randy Cox



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    Craig Limbach
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    11/17/2008 9:59 PM
    To All,
    I too am thinking about possibly getting into this business. I have been in the home inspection business for almost 8 years. Primarily residential work, but a few light commercial jobs here and there. My wife and I recently have got to know a couple and he is a cat adjuster. Known them for about 5 months. Seem like really nice people and live good. He is telling me he averages 60 to 70,000 dollars a month adjusting. He broke the rates down and it all adds up but this seems almost impossible to me. After reading some of the posts on here and talking to some E&O providers for quotes I think he must be exaggerating a bit. He said he made just shy of 70 last month. I guess at $375 an average claim if you did 9 or 10 a day you could hit those kind of numbers but in the real world I can't see that happening. I'm just looking for some educated input here. I would also like to know more about the daily side. This business seems to be a fairly private business without a lot of public info. Also on of the guys said something to the effect of falling in the bear trap and running of to texas to get licensed. What is a better choice, is online just as effective as the classroom setting? Just a few questions I would like to shed some light on. Hopefully Meg won't drop the hammer on me!!! I've put my fair share of blood sweat and tears into getting my inspection business up and running over the last 8 years. I know nothing gets handed to you,but I also know if you make your mind up and with enough determination you can accomplish just about anything you want. I would just like the real lowdown on this business and what  the realistic expectations should be. Sorry for the long post,but just had a lot of questions.
    Respectfully, Craig Limbach
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    StormSupport
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    11/17/2008 10:24 PM
    Posted By Craig Limbach on 17 Nov 2008 09:59 PM
     Hopefully Meg won't drop the hammer on me!!! ...
    Respectfully, Craig Limbach


    Gosh Craig, with manners like that I'd never dream  of "dropping the hammer' on you!  I wish you well in your possible new career, and I'm sure  your winning personality will get you far!
    Do the right thing, ALWAYS
    ~Meg~
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    HuskerCat
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    11/17/2008 11:07 PM
    Craig, nobody lest Meg, wants to drop a hammer on you...but how about a really soft rubber mallet?  I hope that guy didn't also sell you a few acres of swamp land along the way.  Could it be the infamous Applebees parking lot guy has struck again?? Be sure to check your wallet & credit report.
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    Tim_Johnson
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    11/18/2008 9:08 AM
    I have a buddy that has a home inspection business in a town of 60,000. He is making as much as any I/A I know and his job is sooooo much easier. I would stick with what you know and excel at it.
    Tim Johnson
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    Tom Toll
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    11/18/2008 3:18 PM
    I agree with Tim. If you enjoy what you are doing, continue. Some adjusters just don't really tell the truth about income. Consider that you work 16 hours per day and make $100,000.00 in a year. Divide that by 2, because your working twice the number of hours a normal worker works. Remove 30% or that for taxes. You just make about $35,000.00 to live on. If your not totally dedicated to this line of work, your in trouble. I have been an adjuster for a little over 47 years and the most I have ever made in one event was Andrew. I won't say how much I made, but it was considerable. That was a one time deal, it will never happen again. Money does not buy happiness and sometimes the drive to make money will stress you to the point of a heart attack. Do what you love doing.
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    okclarryd
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    11/18/2008 9:17 PM
    Craig,

    Your buddy is probably quoting "gross" with a fudge factor. What ever he says, times 60%, divide by 9, carry the eleven, minus 35% for taxes.

    I, too, have made a sheckel or two. But, as Tom says, the life will wear the tread off the tires pretty damn quick.
    Larry D Hardin
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    BobH
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    11/18/2008 9:23 PM
    Posted By Craig Limbach on 17 Nov 2008 09:59 PM
     I guess at $375 an average claim if you did 9 or 10 a day you could hit those kind of numbers but in the real world I can't see that happening.
    He is not spending enough time with the claim to do a complete, thorough inspection with full explanation to the homeowner about recoverable depreciation, etc.  If it was your house, that is not the adjuster you want working with you - as he rushes off to the next one. 
     I am doing clean-up and having to explain all the details and fill in the overlooked damages from "blow and go" type adjusters.  I may not make as much money as your friend, but I'm not abusing the system either.  As adjusters, we need to do what we are paid to do (hopefully the first time).
    Bob H
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    Ray Hall
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    11/19/2008 9:15 PM
    Many adjusters who have been around cat. work for years have said IKE is not like any other. I will say them same and just can not point out why.  really think more losses were worked from the inside than the outside.
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    Carolyn
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    12/30/2008 2:18 PM
    Ray I believe you are right IKE was by far not normal I have worked eight Hurricanes and this one didn't feel right. There are so many companies involved and so many adjusters from everywhere, it should have been better organized. Most all companies send you out to a set of zip codes not the Greater Houston Area. What's up with them being so disorganized? All of the Insurance Agents are saying they can't get adjusters to go out and the adjusting firms are saying there is no work. I did work there and it could have been lined out smoother. I still have relatives there that haven't heard from from their adjusters since October. Houston/Galveston should set up a planned strategy for this type of event. After all they are on the coast. Not to mention the TX Winstorm and FEMA issues.
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    Medulus
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    12/30/2008 3:43 PM
    Meg,

    Is that a Meg Watts original painting you are using as your icon? (Shameless plug)

    I'd like to add one thing to Bob's post above. When I have done clean up work the number one complaint - by far - was that the adjuster didn't listen to them. Most insureds cannot read an estimate, so they don't know if you included everything or not, but they will surely call up and complain if they think you didn't pay attention to what they were telling you. So they send the clean up person out after you and goodbye holdback. Most people resent being treated like a cog in the machine after they have been through a catastrophe. I, for one, resent those who have been making our profession look like a haven for snake oil salesfolk.
    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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    ray48
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    01/01/2009 3:11 PM
    Posted By Bob Harvey on 18 Nov 2008 09:23 PM
     
    I am doing clean-up and having to explain all the details and fill in the overlooked damages from "blow and go" type adjusters. 

     
     
    I am also doing clean-up for Ike and what I am seeing should just not happen. One file in paticular as an example.
     
    When insured is asked if adjuster climbed on roof, insured states NO, adjuster climbed up ladder, reached up and snapped photos. When asked if adjuster ever entered interior of risk, insured stated Yes, adjuster entered thru the back door on his way out the front door. You can see where this is going.
     
    Upon reinspection of risk, damage was discovered to asbestos slate shingles with several interior rooms sustaining water damage.
     
    Now,to me, this type of adjusting goes way beyond incompetence and training. Will it ever stop? Not likely or not as long as there are good, dependable adjusters willing to clean up the carriers and IA firms mess. For me, it is not just the money, but that when I go to a insureds home I am going to help a fellow human being thru a very hard time and that by me doing my job that person will be able to rebuild and recover their lives. You may think you are just estimating damaged property but actualy you are estimating your own value as a human being. One day it will come back to you. I don't know about anyone else, but I want good things to come back to me.
     
    This is just my opinion and 2 cents worth(just not sure which one is worth more).
     
    Happy New Year Everyone 
    Sam Ray
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    BobH
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    01/01/2009 3:44 PM
    Posted By Sam Ray on 01 Jan 2009  

    Now,to me, this type of adjusting goes way beyond incompetence and training. Will it ever stop? Not likely or not as long as there are good, dependable adjusters willing to clean up the carriers and IA firms mess. 

    Hi Sam, those are good points.
    Personally, I don't believe carriers allow "bad first inspections" knowing that others can clean it up.
    Every agent, claims manager, on up the food chain is dealing with a huge issue when a catastrophe causes over 10,000 claims for that carrier alone with the same Date Of Loss.
     
    "it's been 2 weeks and I haven't heard from my adjuster". 
    "He said he was going to show up on Tuesday, I took the day off, he never showed up, or returned my call".
     
    Carriers are bound by State "Fair Claims Practices" to do various things promptly.  Some of the claims will get very accurate scope and estimate the first time, others won't.  But if there is "no" prompt inspection and payment of "what we know we owe" from our available resources, it escalates into a much more serious issue of non- compliance with policy agreements on the part of the carrier.
     
    Again it comes down to how you can keep really good adjusters employed all year, without abandoning a desk full of local claims to run out of state when a catastrophe hits.  They need to be available, and unfortunately that sort of = unemployed until they are needed.  That works out for people that are semi-retired. 

    When you need large #'s of adjusters in a hurry some are going to be just a warm body, but it's not like the carriers "want" a poorly qualified adjuster.  Re-opened claims are a fact of life, and those that work clean-up will see the worst examples of adjusting.  You don't see the properly worked claims, because they will tend to stay closed.


    Bob H
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    flboy0638
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    01/12/2009 10:46 PM
    I got to chime in here because maybe what I saw was rare. Having said that, here is what I witnessed and Ill let the old timers set the record straight.

    I worked at Citizens on the Information Technology staff. Every floor was full of inhouse adjusters. 1 out of every 10 adjusters had zero experience and were brought in by family, friends, ect... I worked in a room with a 19 year old girl that made 9600 dollars every 2 weeks. I even saw independant firms hire inexperienced outside adjusters of the family members and front them the money to go on the road. On average, everyone worked from 4 to 18 months and made at least 40 to 120 thousand.......... This doesn't sound too bad to me even if a person has to go 2 years without work after that. I heard that newbies get chances like this everytime there is a big strom.  Tp top it off, they furnished adjusters with computers and exactimate if they did not have it..

    All due respect intended..........
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    BobH
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    01/12/2009 11:05 PM
    Posted By Kyle Roberts on 12 Jan 2009 10:46 PM 
    ... On average, everyone worked from 4 to 18 months and made at least 40 to 120 thousand...
    18 months ago would pre-date the Gustav-Ike season of 2008, so I suppose you are referring to the 2005 season of Katrina-Rita-Wilma.  Opportunities do come and go, but I have to say I know 2 very seasoned adjusters that went to work with Citizens this last hurricane season at their headquarters in Florida after Gustav hit.  Citizens had way overstaffed and they were not kept on even a full month despite the magnitude of Ike hitting a couple weeks after Gustav.

    I haven't worked for Citizens, but my impression from doing their training in 2007 was that they had been so poorly prepared for the 2005 season that they spent all of 2006 and 2007 working out enough bureaucracy to make sure they were "ready" for another catastrophe in the eyes of the public they served.
     
    My friends had the impression Citizens would easily drag a boatload of adjusters & vendors out to work for them to make sure they were prepared, and if they weren't all needed, just send the excess ones home.
     
    I'm not disputing what you witnessed at all, and wish I could have been there.  Just don't want people thinking it will always be that way, this is a "temporary" type employment until the need for our help is "over" for that storm event or assignment.  You never know how long it will last.
    Bob H
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