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Last Post 02/24/2008 1:40 PM by  BobH
FMV of a religous article
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BobH
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02/24/2008 12:46 AM

I wouldn't say "Cannot use" or close the door on anything being possible. Something that is a hard rule working under one manager or carrier is completely different somewhere else.

You cannot use auctions for pricing contents. What sells for $100 today may be $200 tomorrow and $50 the next day. Regardless of the popularity of the auction sites, they are not reliable for our purposes and dangerous for us to use as tools to settle claims.

Like anything else, it is a possible tool. I would not say it can never be used - and I have personally searched "completed sales" on oddball items, specialty type items that are just not showing up anywhere else to find ACV.  Using your example, I agree it would be unethical to settle at $50 as the very lowest price ever sold. 

When I use Ebay completed sales as something to document my file, I find an item with excellent condition offered for sale above the centerline of what they seem to be selling for, and print it to PDF for the file.  If we are fair with people, we honor the policy and the file stays closed.  Keep in mind that this PDF example is an item that sold on the open market from a seller who is under no duress to sell, and a buyer under no duress to buy.   That is the definition of ACV in California. 

Recently I did it on a commercial claim where my insured was an elevator service and installation company, and they had some of their specialty tools stolen. Searching for completed sales confirmed that the ACV on these used tools was running about 40 to 60% lower than new retail - and the insured accepted that without a problem. He knew that is what he would be willing to pay for these used tools on the open market + shipping etc.

Bob H
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Tom Toll
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02/24/2008 11:21 AM

One of the problems with E-bay research is availability. Its good that prices can be established, but what about future availability. On a speciality item such as mentioned, that would become an issue. Its good to offer $300.00, but, is it available for that amount now.

Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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BobH
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02/24/2008 12:58 PM
but, is it available for that amount now
Well, you run into the same issue with car values. Most of us have done a lot of fender-bender claims over the years between CAT work (will adjust for food...) and when you get a CCC evaluation on a 1992 Lexus with 98,000 miles that was in average condition, they will note comparable vehicles offered for sale or that have sold. By the time the claimant gets the settlement for their vehicle, those other ones that were on the market may have been sold.

Same with real estate, they look at comparable homes that have SOLD as basis for establishing market value. Of course our duty is financial - what is the amount on the check they get in their mailbox. We are not a guaranteed replacement service.

Here in California if you low-ball someone that is a violation of the Fair Claims Act (that many other states have subsequently adopted) and if you are settling a vehicle and the guy cannot find one for sale at the price you paid, there are methods for recourse which are part of State Law in the Insurance Statutes. When I settle a commercial claim for business property, or even a homeowners contents, if they go shopping for the item and find the initial valuation wasn't right - all they have to do is call.

I think all of this comes down to common sense, get the best info you can, pay what you owe when you know you owe it, and deal with the 2% that don't stay closed when the problem presents itself.
Bob H
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Linda
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02/24/2008 1:14 PM
I think one of the points of this thread is whether or not to allow the policyholder to hold fast on paying $3,000 from their religious organization or to recommend based on some other standard. Point in fact is that we do not owe $3,000 for an article of LKQ that can be purchased from other than the organization at a lesser price. If the organization has them for sale someone, somewhere is making them available for sale. We just have to find out where, who and how much. Make our recommendation and we are on solid ground.
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BobH
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02/24/2008 1:40 PM
I agree with that. And if they have a replacement cost policy or endorsement, the receipt for reasonable purchase will be the end of the story.

If they have "ACV only" the initial settlement is critical - that's all they can get. And I would not allow $3,000 ACV for this item if they are selling on the used market for less. I think we are on the same sheet of music.
Bob H
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