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Last Post 04/22/2007 5:21 PM by  JimGary
granule loss
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RandyC
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04/21/2007 11:52 AM

    A topic that never seems to go away is that of granule loss to a composition roof.  Reports are published by firms like Haag and the manufacturers themselves explaining how granule loss is normal, but still homeowners, encouraged by PA's and lawyers, collect granules from their gutters to prove their loss.

    It seems to me granule loss is much like mileage on a new car.  A new car begins accumulating miles before it is even sold...just like a shingle loses granules before it is  sold or installed.  Most days a car accumulates only a few miles, maybe none at all.  A roof loses a few granules every day, maybe some days none at all.

    On a few days a storm comes with a heavy rain, maybe light hail.  The roof loses more granules on these days, just like a car accumulates more miles during a coast to coast trip than it does on a trip to the grocery store.  Both are just normal wear and tear.

    Normal wear and tear is not  covered by a homeowners policy as it is not covered by an auto policy.  During a trip or a storm, if a tree or another vehicle does damage to either the car or the house....that might be covered damage....not wear and tear.

    People don't rush to file a claim after a long trip, showing the huge change on their odometer to prove damage to their car, maybe they should think the same way about the granules they find in their gutters.

    Randy Cox

     

     

     

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    Wes
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    04/21/2007 1:11 PM
    You do however agree that granule loss from a hailstorm is covered; correct?
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    stormcrow
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    04/21/2007 1:44 PM
    So at what point does it stop being normal wear and tear? If you get your car sand blasted crossing a desert, is that normal wear and tear?
    I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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    01Snake
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    04/21/2007 2:00 PM
    Posted By Wes Davis on 04/21/2007 1:11 PM
    You do however agree that granule loss from a hailstorm is covered; correct?

     

    No. Are you telling me you're gonna replace a roof because there is an accumulation of granule in the gutters?
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    rbryanhines
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    04/21/2007 3:47 PM

    Not sure your comparing apples to apples. Is a hail storm a normal weather event?

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    Ray Hall
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    04/21/2007 4:54 PM

    IF their is no other marks. broken shingles from wind etc, granule loss in its self is not direct damage from small hail , sleet, or rain. If you think other wise and you are an insurance adjuster, we are going to send the mold police to find you as you sound like a pro molder also and we are trying to purge these adjusters who think this way from our ranks.

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    Ray Hall
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    04/21/2007 5:04 PM

    Randy, the mfg. state 1/3 of the weight is the crushed slate in a comp. roof 30 sgs times 240=7200 lbs divided by 1/3 = 2,397.00 of crushed slate on the roof. The insured has a half filled coffee can full from the gutters and downspouts.  Do not think so.  You will never see this happen again Orlando will never be repeated just like the Texas Mold Gold.  The mold police are also granule loss trained.

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    RandyC
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    04/21/2007 5:21 PM

    A friend of mine in Rockwall, Texas told me last week a major storm passed over his house. Tornado sirens!  Green sky!  Bottom droped out! He said the largest hailstone he measured was 3 ¼ inches, but most were just golfball sized….and the storm didn’t last too long.

     

     “What did it do to your roof?”, I asked.

     

    He said there was no damage, that his roof was only five years old  He probably had some granules in his gutter.  He probably had some damage somewhere, but he didn’t see it.

     

    I’m a little overtrained and underexperienced,  so my opinion is  worth about as much as a coffee scoop of granules,  but with two years and tens of thousands of $ worth of training, I’m getting a little fidgety waiting for work that is only the next storm away. 

     

    Is granule loss from hail  covered?   Hail is a named peril.  If there is damage, it would be covered.  I can’t write what I don’t see, so I’d recommend we pay to repair every shingle I see that is damaged times the appropriate RDF extrapolated from a test square times the number of squares per slope. If the hits per test square reach or exceed the threshold then I'd recommend we replace the slope.   Now, if the gutters have  granules,  I don’t know which shingle(s) they came from so unless I can find a shingle with damage I can see, I don’t know which shingle to repair.  If the roof was covered in 200 lb felt and all the granules were in the gutter and on the ground, that would be an Al Gore nightmare...or a mfg. defect.  (I'm not trying to be smart...just funny.  I'm bored to death and suffering from the need to work!)

     

    If the people I work for instruct me to replace a roof for so many granules lost per square, I’ll do that, but it probably wouldn’t be long before the ball peen hammer folks started filling their gutters up with granules.

     

    This probably wasn’t a very good answer, but it was the best answer I’ve got.  Maybe by December my answers and my metaphors will be improved.  I apologize for being on edge, but I just quit a Union electrician job to be ready for this DFW storm.  The friend in Rockwall WAS my boss, only he didn’t file a claim so I didn’t have an estimate to write after all.  I won’t have a paycheck this afternoon either, but I’ve lots of time on my hands to aggravate the real adjusters.  You guys have constitutions of iron and nerves of steel.  I want to be just like you when I grow up.

     

    There is another storm coming my ex-Boss's direction, but  I hear a voice from somewhere saying, "Be carefull of the storm you hope for, the claim you get may be your own!"

     

    Randy C

     

     

     

     

     

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    JimGary
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    04/21/2007 5:41 PM
    You are right about normal wear and tear, that is why as adjusters we inspectthe damage. I have seen an example where the hail was very small, but there was an abundance of it.(Arkansas, May '06) The only damage to the roofing was granule loss. But it was to the extent of exposing the asphalt. The life of the roof was compromised, due to a covered peril, and was replaced. I would hate to be the one who told this homeowner that granule loss is normal and lost this acct for the company. In my opinion, granule loss from a covered peril is damage, and should be looked at. Whether it warrants replacement is on a case by case basis. I guess it come down to how much of the material is actually lost.

    I believe the policy reads "damage due to a covered peril". Damage is the key part of that. not destroyed but damaged. While doing auto we always see a chrome bumper with a scratch that can hardly be seen, sometimes they can be buffed, but for the most part, its damaged, its covered, its replaced.

    Just my opinion
    JWG

    I know the voices aren't real, but sometimes they're right!
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    butch sanders
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    04/21/2007 6:53 PM
    if you really want to see what hail damage looks like go to Bedford.
    i believe excessive loss leads to the deteriation of the roof. it is there to block ultraviolet damage
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    sbeau4014
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    04/22/2007 12:16 AM
    Take a house with a brand new roof on it with gutters. Look at those gutters after one year where not one hailstone has hit that roof, but dozens of thunderstorms have hit with heavy rains to the roof. You will find a fair amount of granules in the gutters, but hail had nothing to do with it. When pea size hail hits the roof there is all the granule loss that has accumulated in the gutters, plus what was knocked off from the hail, and the insured wants compensation for granule loss to the roof as it has lost some of it's life expectancy. There are no damaged shingles evident, no bruising, and the aluminum vents don't even show any dings in them. There were probably more granules washed down into the gutters in the 1st rainstorm after the initial install of the roof knocked off by putting the roof on. Everytime it rains a roof will lose granules from it to a certain degree. A long heavy thunderstorm may dislodge more granules then a brief hailstorm of small size.
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    kds008
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    04/22/2007 11:01 AM

    The explanation about minor/moderate granule loss that made the most sense to me compared shingle granule loss to the minor/moderate rubber loss on a tire when you slam on the brakes.  Both are expected and a wear and tear issue.  You don't replace your tires because you left a little rubber on the road. 

    What do you guys think about that?

    Kim

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    JimGary
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    04/22/2007 2:11 PM

    Yes, but stopping your vehicle is not a covered peril. Take the same example. except you slam on the brakes, slide into the veh in front of you. Part of the collision claim will be the flat spots on the tires.

    JWG

    I know the voices aren't real, but sometimes they're right!
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    Ray Hall
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    04/22/2007 3:40 PM

    What is the differance between some catastrophe adjusters and adjusters that work regulat type losses. This topic is a perfect example.

    In meto Houston most of the thunder storms come from the West and hit thousands of composition roofs on the West part of the city about 10 to 15 times per year. Most all these storms have pea to marble size hail and  many coffee cans of crushed slate granules are shown to the adjuster.

    The regular adjusters who have been properly trained go out and tell the roofing salesman and the homeowner that the granule loss will not cause the early ageing process of the shingles and is an expected and anticipated event by the manufactor.  The warranty from LARGE DAMAGING HAIL is still in place.

    That seems to be the drawback  for troopers  being hired to assit on  regular work. Next time you ask for a gig do not give your opine on granule loss.

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    01Snake
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    04/22/2007 3:46 PM
    Posted By Ray Hall on 04/22/2007 3:40 PM


    In meto Houston most of the thunder storms come from the West and hit thousands of composition roofs on the West part of the city about 10 to 15 times per year. Most all these storms have pea to marble size hail and  many coffee cans of crushed slate granulesend are collected.

     

    Huh?
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    JimGary
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    04/22/2007 5:21 PM
    I think we have just proven why this job will never be done by a claims clerk sitting behind a desk handling claims over the phone. It will always take a visual inspection, by someone who can determine the damage, and be an advocate for both the company, and insured.

    I know the voices aren't real, but sometimes they're right!
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