Forums

Gotcha. Having to learn this stuff while a bunch of insureds are waiting on you would be tension-city.

Doing the Xactimate tutorials will help with the essentials, such as knowing that you may have to "rotate" the orientation of the pitch for an offset, and how you do that.  Some of the stuff you learn by trial-and-error such as how to achieve the little "hip" thing above when a garage offset doesn't match the main roof because the walls aren't the same distance apart. (same pitch, but one roof section is taller than the other)

Solution: right click on that sub-roof over the garage, and choose "Partial Hip" but only one end.  If you don't know to dig into that part of the program, where you can enter this kind of thing, change the default "eve over hang" etc, you are going to be frustrated.

Another thing that happens when you right-click on a roof is you can select "Adjust Height" and this is where the laser measure comes in handy.  (I am not talking about bluetooth - but I suppose it may zap the number there if you had one capable of that)

If you draw out a floor plan (basic box, doesn't need individual rooms) and then draw a roof with default settings, it will look like that roof is sitting on the dirt if you don't adjust the height.

The good news, is if you enter the correct info at the start, your diagram will come out pretty close to what you want right away.  As I mentioned in the last post - the laser is great for shooting from the ground to the eve, and the red glasses do help see the dot.  I got the red glasses with my miter saw (with a laser pointer) and you can get them cheaper than from Leica Disto.  Craftsman red laser glasses work fine.

Some people will read this and think it is overkill, and not needed to do claims.  And in a sense, they are correct.  But with paperless claim files, your handwritten diagrams don't always make it to someone who is trying to figure out if they arrive at the same numbers you did.

For those who speak Xm8, this does create a less fragmented claim file, where someone on clean-up duty can open the estimate and the stuff should all be in that one place, even if they are at a phone center in Dallas or Jacksonville.

After seeing others using computers when I was doing handwritten estimates at a 1992 hurricane (Xactimate was around then, did depreciation and deductible and was embraced by Insurance companies) I decided that was it.  A light went off in my head, this was the way to go.  Then I read a quote by the founder of Intel (Andy Grove) "Technology is your friend.  Embrace it".  Sure he was selling something, but it was my path in the darkness.

One of the guys who made more money at Katrina that anyone I met had taken Architect schooling, then became an adjuster.  I had 4 times his experience as an adjuster, but he kicked my ass.  He was fluent with Auto-Cad and just ate this stuff up.

Another person who knows this stuff better than I do is Roy Crupps, founder of this site.  If you look at http://www.catadjuster.org/Default.aspx?tabid=55&EntryID=15 you will see examples of entering Rafter lengths, etc.

So I don't look at all of this with protest, kicking and screaming.  I just try to learn the tools, and make them work to build what needs to be done - and you find it isn't that hard if you consider the technology your friend.

OK, one other thing.  If you log-on to the Xactimate web site (free) you can view their "tip" archive.  There is a vital one for what you are doing, and it is called: Learn to Calculate Squares of Roofing For Portions of a Roof in Sketch. It also explains how to add waste percentages.

Bob, I totally respect you and think you are an awesome adjuster...Lots of knowledge and expertise, and I'm certainly not criticizing, but I have to ask this...

With all your gadgets and technical 'stuff" are you able to do a better scope and adjustment with these things?  I agree some of the 'stuff' sure is helpful, but there comes a time that it just becomes 'stuff'.  I also realize that having some of the 'latest and greatest' can be a time saver, and can help if an unusual circumstance comes up and you just happen to have the 'right' tool for the job.  I get all that.  But I also have to wonder what it does as far as creating an environment of high tech scoping which can actually hamstring the industry at large.  When the carriers get 'dazzled' by the high tech stuff, then it can become assumed that everyone will have in their arsenal of tools every new thing that comes along with all the bells and whistles.

As we get on board with more technological stuff it's requiring more from the adjuster in way of time, expense and learning curves, and they not being compensated.  It seems that in the days of the hand written estimates property and losses were exactly the same as they are now.  Wind, water, hail, etc still caused losses to risks, and the examiners and staff adjusters were perfectly capable of reading the estimates and making determinations regarding indemnification of the insured.  Now we have all sorts of high tech equipment, costing more and more to the adjusters, requiring a huge learning curve for the estimating system dejour, and the expectations keep getting higher for performance.  It seems now that one needs such a high level of technical knowledge just to operate the current popular estimating system that you almost need a college degree in CAD to produce the type of estimate that is being held up as the bar. 

Who decided that the adjuster of today needed all this 'stuff" in order to scope and create an accurate estimate?  Who requires that the adjuster of today needs to be cutting edge of all the newest, latest and greatest high tech stuff that comes down the pike?   Is not an accurate and fair estimate of damages all that's required?  Why are we raising the bar to such a level that adjusting becomes secondary to your knowledge of gadgets and computer programs?   Isn't all the insured wants is an accurate scope of damages and a check?  Shouldn't the companies have reviewers and staff who are actually able to read an estimate regardless of the program that creates it?  Since most companies require a college degree to  hire a staff adjuster, shouldn't they actually be able to read a clear and accurate estimate?  

OK, I'll get off my soapbox! 

Fat Max- paid for it self this week. I had a large warehouse roof that collapsed from weight of rain water The warehouse was full of material stacked up to about 10 feet and water was about 1 inch deep. The support post for the I Beams were not on center. I lined ole max up with one tilt wall and measured to the first support post , then the next and so forth to the next tilt wall and got 400 feet, but the post were not on center and Max had the correct distance when I backed out of the figs. Spend $100. and never leave home with out it. I also use Realtors Open House signs that I can stick in the ground to do long building footprints. Use a 6x6x4 wood block with drilled hole 2.5 inch deep for both legs on a windy flat roof. If I am lucky I can ride the insureds fork lift to the roof, standing on a wood pallet.(just watch the travel chain with your hand).

For me personally, most of my gadgets are for safety. I have had a little giant for years, but since adding in 2 extension ladders that work on un-even ground, and some of the other stuff I mentioned, it's really all about coming down in one piece. I have a rubbermaid thing with coveralls and rubber boots for sub-area inspections and am kinda overboard on having gear, but it's after the fact of getting sloppy dirty or nearly falling that pushes me to get organized.

I don't use one of the newer bluetooth Distos, but do set my laptop on a stand in the middle of the room and do the estimate on site if at all possible.

One of the "gadgets" I mentioned on this thread was a moisture meter, but that has nothing to do with the estimating program.  You don't "have" to have one for Cat work, but to some degree you are walking into a house blind if you don't have some kind of moisture meter.  You can read where I almost made a huge mistake in this other thread.  My econo moisture meter really wasn't good enough to be able to know the scope of damage.  I got a better (non-penetrating) moisture meter and use it at least once a week on claims.

I think it is important to separate out the "high tech equipment" from the "huge learning curve for the estimating system". All you really need is a tape measure. A laser helps, and I suppose a laser that can "zap" the number to the computer may help more, but I don't have one or really feel like I need one.

No matter what estimating program you use, if there is damage to the siding you are going to have to measure the exterior walls, up to the eve, and up to the peak of the gable.  We have all done that with a tape measure, and it's grief when the tape keeps falling down, or it's 2 story.  I got my Disto years ago, and it is just a great tool (for any estimating program) to get that measurement from the ground to the tip of the eve at the gable so easy, fast, and accurate with a laser.

I agree with you on the "huge learning curve for the estimating system" and my favorite version of Xactimate was the old "lean and mean" version before Windows.

I get estimates from ServiceMaster and ServPro where these guys use Xactimate every day, and usually the sketch is "OK" but more often than not it is just sort of thrown together.  It resembles the house you saw, but things are shifted around, measurements are off.   In the old days you could get garbage estimates with numbers just thrown in the blanks also - so in a way it helps to visualize what shapes the estimating program is assuming for the room.

If someone can build a better mousetrap and have it take market share, I would abandon Xm8 and go to something more simple. The majority of companies I work with want this product, and I just want to earn a living.

Well... I graduated from High School and went right into working at a body shop, never been to college. I have never studied CAD, and learned what I needed from doing the Xm8 tutorials. Software should be intuitive, and not require digging into the "help" section, but this one does. So does Photoshop, and these are both very powerfull programs but not very simple.

That is a great example of how a laser can be helpful. Putting a tape measure down on standing water or mud is "no bueno".  I have used tape measures in houses full of cat urine that had a water pipe burst, soaking every carpet in the house.  I threw the tape away and washed my hands before touching my steering wheel or eating anything.

I own and use the Fat Max laser, but for warehouse work I reach for my Disto that is rated to 600' and I have double checked it on site for measurements up to 300' and found it to be accurate.  They are used for new construction, they are accurate.

Thanks for all the great feedback. As soon as I'm released (soon, I hope, since my two latest files are a supplement and a re-inspect LOL) I'm going to dive into all this stuff.

I learned drafting as a teenager in the 70s working for a landscape architect, then had a fabrication facility for 25 years that often required professional-looking plans as a part of selling the work that I produced for architects, designers, and museums. I look forward to the day when my Xact Sketches reflect my true sensibilities.

The rudimentary Sketches that I've employed in Xactimate do come within a couple of square feet of my old calculator method, so I'm on the right track.

I have to say, however, that the idea of dragging my laptop around to enter dimensions into a claim file in real time on-site isn't very appealing; I'm pretty sure that the pencil-and-paper method will work better for me. But since people that I respect on this website find the laptop method efficacious, I figure it's at least worth a shot.

If you are doing mainly exterior damages, then I would do the same thing you are doing.

I got into doing estimates on-site with my laptop after a bad fire damage loss about 5 years ago where my scope notes went on, and on, and on because there was so much damage.  The next one I just entered into my laptop on-site.

Some interiors are so simple, a long hall with bedrooms on either side.  But if the floor plan is at all complex, I have screwed up over and over again by not doing the Xm8 sketch on-site where it is so easy to walk around and see why your stuff isn't lining up like your measurements said it should (I often find something messed up with a closet, or you realize that the HVAC or plumbing made a wall super-thick so it affects something else).

Someone else posted a couple months ago about AT LEAST get the sketch (for interior) done on site, and I was nodding my head.  If I am really running late on time, I do the sketch of interior damage on-site and just rely on my photos to tell me the scope (not ideal, but it works).  If the sketch is accurate, you have the missing walls, perimeter base, sloped ceiling, you have all of that completed (just waiting for repair steps).

Similar to Ray and some of the other antiques, I started out with just paper and adding machine.  I have worked with about 6 estimating programs, and consider this the hardest to learn.  But if this is what the client wants, I focus on it and learn it - and can make it work.

Lots of useful info posted here on this thread & most from our bud Bob.  Found it amusing and had to laugh when Bob referred to Ray as "one of the antiques" around here.  I think you, Bob, might qualify as an antique yourself if you think about it!!

Posted By Mike Kunze on 07/20/2008 
I think you, Bob, might qualify as an antique yourself if you think about it!!

Absolutely. I remember them classic cars when they was NEW.

Sounds good. I still take notes on site, but much more abbreviated than I used to.  I bang out a diagram that is not painstakingly to scale, just to have a place to write the measurements I just took before entering it to my laptop on site.  I want to have the Length, Width, Height, and offset for entry, closet, (etc) banged out while I am in the groove of doing that, without subjecting myself to the restrictions of the software interface.

Getting back to the spirit of this thread, I suppose that step could be eliminated if I had a Laser that could "zap" the numbers to the computer - but honestly I would write them down on my diagram for the same reason you mentioned.  I have lost 6 hard drives over the years, starting with about a million dollars worth of Northridge EQ estimates in 1994, so I do back up daily and feel more warm and fuzzy with at least the room measurements written on paper.

If a room is odd, cut up, I will run a quick column of numbers to see how much quarter round goes in the kitchen - there are lots of times where the "default" settings will give you a very wrong number for how much base is needed in a room.

So I guess I keep my scope notes as more of a scribble worksheet than something I would want to turn in, but like you I do a dedicated diagram for any damaged cabinets beyond one vanity, showing uppers and lowers with missing areas for dishwasher, stove, etc.  Any antique in this business knows from past screw-ups that guessing about those expensive cabinets (using only the wall measurements) is not good enough.

Speaking of which - I noticed Xm8 recently added a line item for cabinets above Premium (called Deluxe) so there are 5 grades of cabinets to choose from, and it was helpful to me at a high-end home last week when my comparative estimate was able to justify prices on the street that were coming in just between the top 2 grades in the database (20,000 just to install new cabs, no demo or counters included).

I am of the opinion that once an adjuster gets seasoned, this stuff is like a big toolbox, and you reach for the tool that is needed at that time.  To this day, if I see  a damaged room with an odd shape and issues like partial tile - carpet on floor, I will dedicate a new diagram just for that room on my scope notes, like Dave does.  If the room has peaked ceilings with uneven wall heights, missing sections that open up to a landing above, etc., I will visualize a Fed-X box with the walls placed flat on the ground after you cut the corners with a knife.  Doesn't take a lot of time to draw what I just said, and if you don't have some of those dimensions when you go to enter your scope you are screwed (distance to peak of ceiling, where that peak is in relation to side wall, etc.)

I tend to buy one laptop "new" and then get backups on Ebay of that same model. Right now I have 3 of the same model laptop, one of them is running Delorme GPS and goes into the house for scoping on site. One is on my desk, connected to a 22" monitor (XP lets you EASILY set up a laptop to use it's screen + a 2nd monitor. Very handy when you want your photo thumbnails on one screen while you are doing a report or whatever on the other screen). And I "clone" the hard drives with USB cable and rotate hard drive backups to make sure they will boot and run.  I have a complete 3rd laptop with a "fresh" version of the hard drive that all my work is on that I take with me on the road.  That extra laptop cost under $300 used, and provides another matching battery that fits the others.  When I drive with Delorme on a laptop in the van, there is a car-charger for that laptop battery so that it won't "blink out" on power save mode just as I am looking for an intersection.  So for me, I really don't have a battery issue but I sure remember the problem you describe a few years ago before I got my current set up.

I have not worked a cat. loss since 2005. Seems I read or talked to an adjuster that said he had to turn in his scope notes. I did this many years back on regular fire claims to give the reviewer a "feel" of how hard I worked.........even though it was fee bill...as I wanted the next one..gives you good job security when a file comes in with your name on it.... just be humble and they will keep coming and thank god each day for giving you the talent.

Do not ever pray for files, just pray that almighty god will give you the strength to do the next one as well as you can.

Randy, you deserve this break, by all your study and classes in xactimate. Both of you will do very well, call if you have a question.

All of this stuff that y'all have been talking about is tools.

A really good mechanic has lots of tools, most of which sit in the tool box until that specific tool is needed for the job at hand.

The same approach works here.  Technology really is our friend and we need to learn to choose and utilize the tools available to us.  We don't need to use each of them on every claim or even on every working day.  But, we do need to know what they will do (and not do) and when to pull them out to address the situation.

I resisted buying a Disto since they are quite expensive.  I have never regretted the purchase that I finally made.  I also have a Stanley ($99) but don't like it as well.  I use a digital voice recorder clipped to my shirt that I record my scope notes on while I'm writing them down in my steno pad.  I can record all the details in a room in 10-12 seconds but it would take me 10-12 minutes to write them.

I, too, do my sketch on-site since I'm old and feeble and forgetful.  Between my recorded notes, my written notes, and the sketch already done,  I stand a fair chance of writing a pretty good estimate later that day.  I can see the value of having the computer in the structure but so far have chosen to not do so.

There's lots of ways of skinnin' the cat.  I have listened, watched, learned, discarded and otherwise chosen my way but that doesn't mean it's the best. 

It's good enough to get me by.

Happy Trails