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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
 Posted - 02/23/2004 : 21:26:58
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CCarr
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 12:22:47
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John, please don't read more into my comments, than what I have said; I recognize that as they stand they have limited palatability. Three times in my post, I said "I was of the opinion". I do hope that saying it that way made no suggestion that anyone (and certainly not me) has or has not "made the decision that religion has no place in business". That would be a personal decision a person or company would make or not make, based on their own opinions.
I am not uncomfortable with religion itself. But I am uncomfortable when religion enters the business side of the claims industry. Again, that is just a personal opinion.
I do stand by my last paragraph, as it is written, as a response to the specific contrary suggestion. Just visualize an adjuster carrying on to the extent that has been detailed of Mr. Portillo's actions in this thread. I can not accept that "we" need more adjusters within that scenario.
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Country: Canada | Posts: 1102
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 21:27:12
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Johnd
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 12:42:17
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Clayton, the original statement by JimF was; "John, we need more contractors AND adjusters like you!" Not just Adjusters but Contractors and Adjusters. I interpret this as JimF's way of saying that we need more individuals with this philosophy of helping your neighbor or a person in need. Surely you cannot fault this, can you?
If you are uncomftorable when religion enters business, they YOU ARE UNCOMFTORABLE WITH RELIGION. I would really appreciate it if you would point out just what is bad about religion and/in business. I am getting "fed-up" with folks making statements like that and then hiding behind some insignificant explanation. Please Clayton enlighten us.
I do not see any signs of anyone espousing Adjusters to go out "and be preachers", just to do the Christian "thing" when handling ALL business related matters.
There are two types of folks today, those that believe that man has all the answers and those that believe that God has all the answers. I believe that I will align myself with the latter.
AND, again I find the last paragraph of your answer "lacking in thought."
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Edited by - Johnd on 02/23/2004 12:45:35
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Country: USA | Posts: 48
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 21:27:25
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olderthendirt
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 12:59:05
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Comments made on this topic were based on the insurance contract. It is wonderfull to see a cleaning/restoration company do something they may not get paid for it happens too rarely. BUT, for an adjuster to step in and talk actions outside the coverage is dangerous. Make sure you have good E & O.
Mr. Portillo, you have right to your faith and to speak of it, even here. But adjusters no matter what they believe must adjust within the contract. The only option we have is to walk away from carriers whose policies or interputations therof, are against our beliefs (yes I have been morally outraged more then once).
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Country: USA | Posts: 323
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 21:27:36
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JimF
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 13:13:38
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Memo to John Durham:
I think if you will follow the link herein, you will discover the answers to some of your questions, from a thread which you will see was initiated last year in response to Mr. Portillo's practice of ending each of his posts with the comment "God Bless."
http://catadjuster.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=351&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=,religion
The thread was entitled Religion - What's The Big Deal?
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Edited by - JimF on 02/23/2004 13:23:12
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 21:28:10
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Ghostbuster
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 13:17:15
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I think I agree more with Clayton on the topic of religion and business. In my duties as a chicken-eatin'-Methodist Trustee, I have learned that God doesn't want money, God wants souls. Religion, tho, wants money to keep the doors open and the air conditioning blowing so Miss Higby won't break out in a glow, (sweat) on a hot, humid late May morning. There is a big difference twixt faith and religion. That said, business enterprises should not invoke the Lord's favor in their dealings lest they be smited for casting the smoke of deceit apon the waters. Yea!, tho we trod thru the Valley of Goodness, behold the serpent hissing unholy platitudes in the guise of the pure of heart! Are not the heavens clear? Are not the soils verdant? Why?, Oh Why, must the unclean amongst the pilgrims confuse those who would doth spake with pure purpose and render unto the Diety that which is the Diety's, yet render unto the plight of Man only that which is mortal?
Or to be succinct, let's do the Good Deed for the sake of doing the Good Deed. To crow about it is practicing one of the sins, (I can't remember which one it is, but I'm sure one of you can ellucidate.) It is better to limit expressions of faith to what's printed on the money, "In God We Trust", and leave it at that. Freedom of Religion also means Freedom from Religion.
Can we get a Hosanna? Can we get a Halleluiah? AMEN!
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 21:28:23
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CCarr
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 13:28:12
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Okay John, re 'the original statement', and your interpretation of it, that's fine, I saw it a bit differently; and no I can not fault the interpretation you noted. Had I thought of it the way you did, then I'm sure my last paragraph would have been then perceived as less lacking in thought.
I do still draw a distinction with regards to the 1st sentence of your 2nd paragraph. I am not uncomfortable with religion itself, by itself, with one's self, or with a group that choose to share their religious comments together; without imposing them on others.
I never said religion in business was "bad", I said my opinion was that religion does not belong in the business of the claims industry. I never offered an explanation for that opinion, therefore I am not hiding behind anything in expressing that opinion. It is not something that I feel as strongly about as you obviously do, with your alternative opinion. There is a religious thread in the forum, I see that it has been pointed out to you, where in fact there does seem to be some support for the notion you mentioned of adjusters to go out and be preachers, or at least to discuss faith issues with insureds while doing the claim.
If you think this issue can be determined with one line drawn in the sand, I would - with the limited choice available - stand across from you and face you. I didn't realize that the issue could be that cut and dry, but if it is, I do believe that 'man' has all the answers to any questions I've had or will likely have in the next while. But, don't jump to conclusions that I don't feel religion has a place in society; sure it does, as it has a place in my life.
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Country: Canada | Posts: 1102
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 21:28:35
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Johnd
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 14:14:16
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Thank you JimF, I did read the thread you provided the link to above. I guess this explains it all as Clayton has pretty much said what his feelings are in this thread.
I agree with olderthandirt, above. When adjusting claims one should stick to the (C)overage as doing otherwise would constitute fraud or theft.
And last Clayton, thanks for helping us to understand who you are and what your personal philosophy and beliefs entail.
As Jesus the greatest philosopher said; "He that denies me before man, I shall deny before God."
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Country: USA | Posts: 48
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 21:28:49
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CCarr
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 15:01:15
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Whatever, I don't see any benefit to you or anyone else in their thinking that you understand who I am or what my personal philosophy and beliefs might entail based on some religious commentary. I really don't see the relevance of that in a claims industry website forum, nor any relevance to what your notion of understanding may be.
But, you say the greatest philospher said .... By whose measure was the "greatest" label developed? That is a serious question. Is it limited to the Christian faith or their religions? There are religions that don't have Jesus in them, do they have a philospher, do they think their's is the greatest? I'm not trying to incite anything, I just don't know from where or what basis you can make that claim. Is that something I'm taught to believe if I go to Church regularly?
And, to the words you quote from the philospher that you say is the greatest; I don't know their religious meaning or interpretation. I can come up with a meaning or interpretation, but I would have no idea if it is the accepted or correct one.
You see, I could look at that quote, from a business sense, and suggest it means - a boss saying to his people, if you don't stand up and support me, I won't put a good word in for you with the owner.
Again, understand, I've pretty well exhausted my interest level in this topic, but when I do look at these things, I try and place them in a real world context and situation.
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khromas
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 22:04:08
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As I stated in a post on a different forum -
issues like this are how people get riled up when they have too much time on their hands and a computer modem!
Ghost - I think you would have made a 'good old Baptist tent revival evangelist' with your prior post! In fact, I think I actually sounded like that a few times as a young Minister leading some youth revivals out in West Texas while involved with the Baptist Student Unions at a couple of universities I attended.
It is important that we realize that true faith requires a person to live out that faith. For it to become who they are as a person, not just a reflection of their personal beliefs. One of the most Godly men I ever met was of the Bahai faith and had suffered great persecution in Iran during the Shah's reign. While we had differences over some details of our individual beliefs, it never got in the way of our personal expressions of faith and day-to-day lives.
As I have read back over the previous posts in this forum, I think that what many have expressed in their desire to bring more "religion" into our jobs is actually a desire to treat people with a higher level of concern and care. As an adjuster, I am in contact with someone who is in an emotionally fragile state. They have often had their home destroyed or at least damaged and don't know what is going to happen to them and their family next. I have to be extremely sensitive to their needs and how I go about starting their process of recovery. My exhibition of my faith is how I treat that person at that time and in the place where they stand.
I do not think that faith is only an emotional state, it also is an intellectual one, because that is what you have to deal with when the emotions run out. I disagree with those who would argue that faith is, by definition, the absence of intellectual reason. It is part and parcel of the complete picture.
From a business perspective, the greatest good for everyone (society as a whole included) is to treat people with the highest level of morality and respect. For some, that is the expression of their religion. |
Kevin Hromas |
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Johnd
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 22:34:02
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| Thank you Kevin, that was extremely well said..... |
John Durham
sui cuique fingunt fortunam |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 17:26:28
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| Religion should never be brought up in a business situation, unless you have a prior relationship with the person you are dealing and you know what his stand on the situation is. If you are dealing with someone you have never met, unless he is a pastor and you are handling a church claim I would recomend that you stear completely away from the entire topic of religion. The down side of offending a policyholder is way more than the up side of bringing up the topic. I have a hard enough time on many occasions dealing with some people without bringing a hot button issue into it. |
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Steve H
Switzerland
30 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2004 : 20:32:29
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For about three years, I worked for a company that only insured churches. Even their personal lines business derived from church membership. They were of just about every ilk except Catholic, as Rome has its own carrier.
Working with the insureds was quite pleasant. Someone frequently said, "God bless you," when I had not sneezed and I usually said, "Bless you, too," which allowed me to remain neutral theologically and still return the wish of good will professionally.
It appears that spirit (if you can allow for the existence of something that precludes, causes and supports life) flows through any adequate paradigm in the same way that electrons flow through any closed circuit. Most of us are of a Christian pursuasion in N America, but there are a lot of other belief systems here. I think that if we stick with the "In God We Trust" on the coin of the realm, we can maintain an atmosphere of mutual respect in the midst of agreement and conflict. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2004 : 21:19:01
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Back when there used to be a lot of subscription policies, I used to see this carrier called Ecclesiastical Insurance Company, appear as a minor subscriber on a lot of the subscription policies. They didn't have a local branch, but in time to me and my equally niave and ignorant friends they became known as the "church carrier". Today they are much more than that, although I never did ask or hear a credible story on how their name originated.
About 13 years ago I had the opportunity to be in their H/O for some settlement meetings. I had some lingering apprehension of what trapping might be on the walls or otherwise felt with regard to the notion with the name. But, they were nice people, normal people and knowledgeable claims people. They carried on like normal claims people, and I never saw a Gideon or similar item on any desk or table. |
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Steve H
Switzerland
30 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 10:57:27
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In the church biz, I know of Church Mutual, GuideOne and Catholic Mutual. I worked at GuideOne, which is the old Preferred Risk. Their work environment is businesslike and you're less likely to see a bible on a desk than you are at a SF or other generic carrier's office. They preach diversity like every company does these days.
In that vein, I reinforce the standard that it is impolite to ask a co-worker, "So where do you go to church?" |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 14:11:02
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| Russ Lott and I attend the Church of the Orange Owl when we're on storm. |
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Religion - What's the big deal?
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