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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2003 : 15:52:02
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Clayton, you starting this thread is no shock to some. Lately some of your posts have indicated that you are interested in learning more about what others are referring when they say they look outside of themselves for answers to life’s needs. Are there actually more expressions of religion in posts at this time or are you just becoming more aware of them for some reason? It is without question from any CADO reader that you are a very bright and knowledgeable person that tries to look at things in a logical way. Personally sometimes my abilities make it harder for me to take things on “faith” in a child-like manner.
Language is very imperfect as has been discussed on CADO lately. The meaning of “Religion”, “Faith”, “Christian”, etc is colored by a lot of different things. Complex rules and systems of “Religion” or anything else confuse me so I try to find and go with the most simple solution in life that brings the results I am looking for where it be in a vocational or spiritual sense.
Yes, I do believe the Bible is God’s Word and it will show us the way to know that our souls can spend eternity in the presents of God. The words from the Bible in John 3:16 sums up what I need to know to be certain how and where my soul will go after death and it reads something like, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Verse 17 continues, “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
Verse 17 indicates to me that “true” religion has to be positive in nature since God did not send Christ to condemn me but to save me from my sins. Once I confessed that I believed that Jesus Christ was the Son of God who came and died to cover the sins of my soul I believe God did once and for all time make my soul pure and that I became a “born again” child of God because all of mankind started out as children of God but when sin entered in to the world it separated us from God in a spiritual sense.
Clayton I believe in time my current body will die because it was not made perfect but that my soul was made perfect in the sight of God by my accepting the price that Christ paid on the cross on my behalf. He was perfect in all manner and had no need to die on the cross except to offer the supreme sacrifice that would once and for all, make man right with God if he would repent of his sins and believe that Christ is the Son of God and can save a man’s soul for all eternity.
The Holy Spirit draws all men towards Christ according to the Bible so when we are drawn to know more about God and what he wants to do for us that we can in no way do for ourselves then that is a force not of ourselves. I do believe I have abilities needed for success in life but I believe they are a gift from God that I may serve Him better so in that sense I am not self-sufficient in and of my own power.
Clayton after a person accepts the free gift of salvation that covers his sinful soul and makes it perfect in God’s sight he still lives until his physical death in a sinful body that will still do wrong because Satan still can influence (tempt) our minds to say and do evil things that are against the will of God but Satan can no longer touch or taint our souls ever again because Christ is able to keep that which we have committed to him. Saint Paul refers to this as the on going battle between the “Old Man” and the “New Man”. Death for Christians is positive in the sense we are freed once and for all time from the nature of the “Old Man”.
For Christians to not tell others about the freedom they have found in Christ and to encourage others to accept the true forgiveness that comes without condemnation is to be in direct disobedience to the great commission Christ gave to all of his followers at the time of his ascension back to heaven 40 days after his resurrection from the grave.
Clayton this is my basic understanding of how one can know he will spend eternity in the presence of God instead of eternal separation from God. I have bet my soul on this belief. Others say we die and rot and that is the end of things. If that is the case then I will have just gained a more positive look on life by trusting my soul to Jesus Christ and will cease to exist totally when I die. If my belief is correct I gain heaven for all eternity. The inverse of this is not a risk I am willing to take. Yes this is a simple belief system but Jesus said the way to him was so simple that the most simple of minds could find the way. I hope this helps you better understand where I come from and why I am not perfect nor will ever be while in this current body. It is my wish and life’s mission that all can know the simple freedom I have found by totally putting my faith in Jesus Christ.
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rugg
Canada
14 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 18:32:26
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Gale
Very well said, sing it from the roof tops. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 20:45:19
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Gale, your commentary is one of the nicest things I have ever read. Every time I read it, I draw some comfort from it; but as well think of numerous questions.
Regarding the last sentence of your first paragraph, and all of the 2nd paragraph; I to seem to have 'barriers up' and a fair bit of confusion with the complexity of it all.
However, I am left questioning myself - if you can draw comfort and give so much comfort, in the manner in which you explain your relationship with religion - why cann't I?
I recognize I may be getting close to that line in the sand, where on the other side of it are more personal things; but I want to try and ask more.
How do you learn to interpret the words of the Bible? Is it your interpretation, or one that you have come to accept and in turn believe? Your 'interpretation' of Verse 17 is 'logical', but I cann't see how I could have 'read' that without your guidance.
Is it as simple or complex as interpreting a policy wording (and I mean no disrespect with that attempt at a comparison)? That is something that I have worked away at for over 30 years, still recognizing my lack of perfection at it; but able to reasonably guide others who have not practiced at it so long. Is that anywhere close to the same?
You say, "Once I confessed that I believed ....", what must happen in life to reach the point of 'confessing' that? I would think it is obviously before you really had a test of that faith. Once you reached that kind of belief, how can that not be eroded or in fact eliminated when you see things happen around you, that should not happen according to that belief you had? Only because Don has brought it up with a specific thread, if God is the answer and we trust ourselves to Him; why are those terrible things happening to those close to Don?
You mention something that I did not realize could exist - a perfect soul, in a sinful body. I sense that could be a terrible turmoil to people, or provide a false conscious defense to their sinful actions. I have friends that are Catholic, that have tried to explain this part to me. I would find it very difficult, if I believed I had a cleansed and perfect soul and committed some typical sinful act; which even in simplicity seems hard to avoid each day. I feel that would be a terrible moral burden to carry.
I keep reading your 2nd last paragraph, what do I read or do; to gain that belief?
Your last paragraph Gale, is a heart ripper. Obviously, you have reached a comfort level with your beliefs. It seems so 'clean', so 'proper'; but to me it seems like an unsurmountable mountain to climb to attain what you have achieved. I care more about the people close to me, than I do for myself. In the real world I guess I am still on a 'journey', but I've climbed all the business 'mountains' I care to tackle; and have had my share of the proverbial 'peaks and valleys' both in personal and business life. To 'trust' to the level you are portraying is a tough call. Things happen to people around us, that defies explanation within the 'trust' relationship you mention.
However, a sincere thank you for being so open, again it was a pleasure and comfort to read; and something I'll absorb for some time. |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2003 : 00:16:31
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Clayton, it is clear from your post you very serious and have been thinking on the subject for some time by the depth of your questions. Faith is somewhat like adjusting in that you can never truly learn adjusting without taking the plunge and working your first loss. Faith can only grow one step at a time. The funny thing about faith is that it is more of a letting go than a “doing” thing especially at first. This is where the barriers we have set up from the past can make “letting go” somewhat painful.
Questioning is part of the learning more about anything. My five-year-old twins drive that point home everyday. It was 44 years ago when I was eight years old that I realized on my own one Sunday morning that Jesus loved me enough to die for me and that I needed to ask him to forgive me of my sins and come live in my heart. It was like the preacher was looking at me the entire sermon and there was no one else in the building.
In hindsight he was not starring at me or just preaching to me but it was the Holy Spirit trying to help me trust Jesus but I held out and did not accept Jesus at that time. I wanted to very bad but I just did not have the nerve to publicly profess Jesus Christ. Later that afternoon I did with my dad explaining me how simple it was to ask Jesus to forgive me of my sins and trust Him to do what he promised he would do. There have been many bumps along the way but as I gain more experiences of God’s grace in my life the deeper the faith becomes.
Interpretation of the Bible does take time like interpreting policies. This next point may sound like a catch-22 but we need the guidance of the Holy Spirit who comes to live in us when we ask Jesus into our hearts. Just like a new adjuster needs an experienced adjuster to help him or her to better understand reading policies it is the same way with understanding the Bible. This is why a new believer needs to get with a group of more mature believers especially at first. This is a critical step because not all that claim to be believers have truly accepted the full freedom that comes with knowing Christ and will have a new believer to think that you have to ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins plus join a church, get baptized, etc before you can expect to have eternal life with God.
The salvation part is addressed 100% by the sacrifice that Jesus paid on the cross and all we have to do is to accept that gift that Christ offers to everyone. Joining a group of believers and being baptized is a good thing but it redeems one in no way according my interpretation of the teachings of Jesus. If man could have saved himself or kept himself saved by keeping of the laws then there would have been no reason for Jesus to have come and died on the cross. That is why I believe that only the accepting of the sacrifice that Jesus offered on my behalf is needed and that my good works or deeds only illustrate what has happened in my heart when I trusted Jesus.
Concerning your question as reaching the point of ‘confessing’ I will just give you my experience. Once I realized there was nothing that I could do concerning my sins that would please God other than accepting the forgiveness that Christ purchased on the cross and I was powerless to keep my soul in a perfect state by any effort of mine then confessing Christ as my savior was a ‘no brainer’ in the fact that He was my only hope. When you only see one option then it is not hard to act because there are no choices to choose from at that point.
The perfect soul in an imperfect body has to be accepted as a temporary situation. It is humbling to know that in the flesh we are going to fail but God is willing to forgive those failures. Saint Paul talks about those that say since the soul is sinless then the flesh can do what every makes it feel good. He said if we know the love of Christ in our hearts we will not continue to walk in sin with a clear conscience.
St. Paul in the New Testament book called Romans deals with a lot of the good questions you have raised. Clayton all of your questions are good and are raised every day many times as people seek to find peace in the middle of the bad things happening all around us. If you will read that book of the Bible (it is only about 6 pages long) you may see where others have raised questions in his day and that he worked to explain how we are all sinners and God’s solution to that problem.
When reading the Bible I personally find that it is important not to get hung up on what I do not understand at that time because there will be plenty that I will understand to act upon or that will answer the question on my mind at the time. I personally think our relationship to God is the most important one in anyone’s life and it if it is the right relationship then it will have a positive effect on all other relationships of personal or business nature.
Also I would like to thank you for your kind words about my last post. I do believe in time you will find what you are looking to find. Remember it is more of a letting go as we learn more about why we should let go to gain peace. Clayton this letting go of the old ways and letting Christ control our thoughts and way is never ending but salvation is instantaneous when we simply ask Christ to forgive us and to come into our hearts. He has paid the supreme price and offered it freely. Remember as we seek to trust Christ that there is a dark force that will work to insure we do not come to know True peace. This darkness is the reason Christ had to come into the world in the first place.
I am out of time now and if anything sounds off key please ask about it since I have not had the time to edit it as much as I like for clarity. Remember there are a lot of others that are looking for the same thing as you are and there are others that can help you as well. I know it is hard to let go but Christ is trustworthy from my experiences over the years. As some that have met me knows life has not been easy for me in many ways but I really do not think I would have survived these 52 years without his grace and guidance. You are close letting go and stepping out on the promise of faith. It is my prayer that everyone will find the peace that awaits us all if we only ask believing Christ will do as he has promised.
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2003 : 09:10:45
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Gale thanks again, for all the same reasons I mentioned regarding your previous posts.
When I think back to the opening of this thread - not yet 48 hours ago - I struggled for several days, before I had the courage to open this thread and post.
What I mean by finding the 'courage' to make the post, was first fighting with my willingness to want to say something; then looking for the ability to face that weakness. Quite a contrast to my propensity to post on just about any other topic.
I mention that Gale, because of the very profound openness in which I know you made your posts on this thread, and the comfort with which you make your comments is obvious to me; and hence they bring comfort and understanding.
I didn't know Tom Joyce, other than through his written word, archived in our forums. But now, I understand so much more of why Cheryl chronicled the final chapter of Tom's life. I don't know Don, but enjoy his posts and subscribe to his byline in life. But now, I understand so much more of why he is chronicling his Dad's final chapters. Neither is an example of something I would do, but I certainly have a new perspective, understanding and respect; for what I now see in those threads and posts.
When I reconsider Mr. Portillo's post in the "Breaking Barriers" thread, I have a new perspective, understanding and respect; of his message and of the comfort and sincerity with which he made that post.
The aforementioned is part of what I have gained from this thread; when I look back and review my opening post - it is to say the least - a humbling experience to critique my own 'attitude' at that time.
I have learned that 'courage' is so many more things, than merely the mental determination and the physical ability to face difficulty.
When we see adjusters from time to time accept the technical guidance in posts regarding our profession, I feel good for them, that this web site has allowed that opportunity. I never would have thought that I would seek or receive the type of guidance that has come my way in this thread; it is very humbling. Thank you. |
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Jportillo
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2003 : 09:34:46
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CCARR I respect and appreciate your thougths and comments on what has been taken over the message board lately. Sometimes it is hard to recieve words of encouragement from a complete stranger someone you never met or know. Well the way look at it is that I feel like I do know everyone. I have read your post for several months now and come to expect and enjoy everyones comments and sense of humor. I personally feel by reading ones words you get to know someone better than you would talking to them 3 or 4 times a year on the road in different locations.I have matured and learned alot through different topics posted here that helped me become a better person. That is why I choose to say those powerful words fo GOD BLESS YOU at the end of my responses. It's because everyones words blessed me and helped me become a better person. I am not a Bible Toting, Book Thumping, get saved or go to hell kind of guy. I do not push my belief on anyone. I simply testify to what I have gone through in life. I have been in the lowest realm of society. I have eaten out of dumpsters, slept on streets not bathed or eaten for days, so I know what hardship is and if saying those words of faith inspires someone or lights a fire under there feet and helps them from expeiencing what I did then who is it hurting. Gale your response was great and your right whats the worst that can happen you die and thats the end , but as you said if our belief is correct and we are counting on it and know that it is we gain eternal life and happiness. Very good insight and response it touched me deeply THANKS!!!! No one is perfect I'm not. I just try help those who will accept my help and for those who will not pray for them that they will one day open their hearts and recieve love and kindness from others. Remember you are never alone God is always watching over you waiting for your return to your rightful place in heaven.
"'LOOK!I have been standing at the door, and I am constantly knocking. If anyone hears ME calling him and opens the door. I will come in and fellowship with him and he with ME.'" Revelation 3:20 TLB
May God Bless you and your love ones. |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2003 : 22:59:22
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Clayton, JohnJay and others I would like to say the hardest part of faith for me is understanding why God would be willing to ask his own Son to die in my place so I would not have to face the penalty of my sins. My son is 5 years old and I would not willing give him up to save someone like me. In fact I still do not understand a love so deep but I have accepted that God did so love me that He sent his Son to die for my sins so I could experience everlasting life.
Some say there are many ways or paths to reach God or the afterlife however I am more eager to follow the teachings of Jesus on how we can know God over any of man’s teaching on the subject. I am not naïve of the fact that many great teachers have spoken on the subject of how one can obtain eternal life because they are recorded in the history of the world.
Because I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and currently he is at the right hand of God whereas the great teachers and founders of most major world religions have a body in a grave somewhere, it makes it very easy for me to accept Jesus’ teachings over all others on the subject of how to attain eternal life.
Personally I believe in the freedom of choice when it comes to one’s spiritual belief system. I will make a case for my spiritual belief system but at the same time be willing to die defending the right for you to believe something totally different from what I believe when it comes to spiritual matters. Christ did not force himself upon anyone when he was on earth and taught his followers to do likewise.
History teaches us that groups both claiming to be Christian and non-Christian have forced their beliefs upon other groups against their will. No one of good character will use physical force or emotional force to make another to conform to his or her own belief system. This is not freedom but it seems like man has a nature that wants to take away the freedom of others. Christ brings true freedom from the guilt of sin as well as the freedom to refuse to accept his forgiveness that he freely offers or to believe that he is the Son of God.
Thanks to everyone for being so kind as to let me freely express my personal view on why I think trusting Jesus to cover my sins makes all of the difference in my short life upon earth and for all of eternity. I know not all readers agree with my simple understanding of religion, which defines life for me. Thanks again.
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2003 : 09:15:57
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We have faith in history, and thats a mystery. We believe what historians have written. It is their version, as they view it which is at times diametrically opposed to the way things actually happened. In turn we draw our own conclusions. We accept it on faith.
The KJV was written by schollars, taken from historians manuscripts long before. This wasn't done by one man it was done by many. They took the documents produced by the eye witness accounts and combind them, We as christains accept this on FAITH and have the free will to do so.
How one believes is personal and I feel no one should have the moral right to take that away or condem them. Our problem is when we listen to a mans version and place him on a throne, we then have a cult.
Teaching the bible is not the same as teaching something that is taken out of context and distorted to your own belief. What one thinks it meant, may not be the same thing as what it says.
I value ones belief as I do my own, even though they may differ we have our Faith that we are destined to become an heir to the kingdom if justified. The reading of the will has not taken place.
And its whats in the heart that counts not how the word has been perverted( thats how I see it).
The mystery of history is taken by Faith, so why can't people take the gospel on FAITH, another mystery. We take a theory as a belief that something exists, yet some will doubt and so it is with religion.
Never be offended by ones religion or belief,if not in a mortal being, only one judge has that right.
If all people lived by the book of Ephesians whether they believed or not this would indeed be a paradise.
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Michael Stueart
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2003 : 00:56:48
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CCarr,
No offence but many are praying for you, I for one , as you consider the roads ahead of you. A cross road appears to be in your path, and it is only you,(free will)who can choose which direction you will take. I hope as you seek answers to your questions you truly understand what " God Bless You " really means. Again no offence is meant, we, as christians, are always excited when we can truly say "Welcome Brother" as a new soul is won for the kingdom of God.
God Bless,
Michael |
Michael Stueart |
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Jportillo
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2003 : 07:55:09
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To your answer your comment on how someone can say GOD BLess to another person they do not know or ever met is simple. I have been reading this
forum for quite sometime and the things that I have read have helped myself better understand what others go through in this business and to better understand the insurance industry and so forth. All the messages you and others have left on the boards have been a Blessing to me and has helped me become a better better person. I feel my saying MAY GOD BLESS YOU after every message is my way of saying Good Luck, Take Care and so on. I would rather you recieve a for sure thing than depend on luck to hit you in the ass some day and you not know it. I am not a BIBLE toting, Book thumping, hit you over the head and follow me kind of guy. I have lived in the lowest places were humanity can exist. I know first hand what it feels like to eat out of dumpsters and not bathe or eat for days, it's not a fun thing. If it wasn't for someone who kept saying those words to me everytime they spoke to me, and ME learning to accept those blessings without prejudice than I would still be living in the streets and feeling sorry for myself having a daily pity party. So if those words or even my comments give someone hope or lights a fire under their feet than what's the big deal it sure isn't hurting anyone. It may just keep someone from having to experience what I went through. Life is to short to Dwell on the unimportant, do not let ones comments or beliefs steal your joy or happinees. Be happy with yourself and if people don't like it, then tell them to get over it they can leave the room if they want. Enjoy life to the fullest you only get one, why waste it. Everone take care and my GOD BLESS YOU and your families.
Always in Christ
JPortillo
THE INVITATION
There is a door to your heart and JESUS is Knocking on it. He can't open it against your will. He wants to lead you through the door to the Father's house in heaven. Will you nopen your heart to him and recieve
His Invitation.
"'Look! I have been standing at the door, and I am constantly knocking. If anyone hears Me calling him and opens the door, I will come in and fellowship with him and he with me."
Revelation 3:20 TLB
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canduss
USA
120 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2003 : 00:03:46
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| Ccar.......you always make a comment & then when individuals make their own comments you consistanly criticize anyone who vears from your own opinion........with your vast knowledge and wisdom I'm sure your already retired and amusing yourself with the key to financial freedom............... |
Edited by - TomToll on 03/09/2003 08:32:19 |
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canduss
USA
120 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2003 : 00:08:52
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| I would like to commend the moderators for language abuse defaults........... |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 21:18:48
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I am just curious why rather than lock the thread entitled Landlord Scamming Tenant, that the Moderators didn't simply move the off topic posts related to religion to this thread, wherein it could be continued on topic?
Moderators thoughts invited. |
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 21:26:17
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CCarr
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 10:27:31
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It is this sort of thing that clearly illustrates the diversity of views on several issues. I am of the opinion that religion does not belong in the business aspects of the claims industry; and I don't really care who agrees or disagrees with that opinion.
Perhaps this thread is a good example of why religion should be kept out of the business of claims. My original 2/22 post (prior to edit) had two references to religion, as part of my thoughts to Mr. Portillo. As I mentioned previously, a moderator addressed me regarding the religious component of my original post, and asked that I edit those parts out; explaining to me that Mr. Portillo didn't bring religion into the thread, so I shouldn't either. Well, as you can see, as I suggested, Mr. Portillo takes his religion into each of his posts; and seems bent in continuing that. I could care less what he does, but I am of the opinion that religion should not be flaunted in posts to these forums.
As to the benevolent commercial services offered by Mr. Portillo, I would suggest that if carriers knew the extent of the involvement in non-covered issues and the resultant potential for conflict with their coverage issues at the same loss site; they would not be receptive to those services on a direct basis.
Finally, it certainly escapes me at this time, how it can be felt that "we" need more adjusters who involve themselves in losses to the extent that has been detailed of Mr. Portillo's actions in this thread.
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Country: Canada | Posts: 1102
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 21:26:33
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Johnd
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 11:20:57
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Clayton, just what is it about religion that makes you so uncomftorable? Who made the decision that religion had no place in business? And your last paragraph is a real doozey!
M. Portillo, GOD BLESS YOU, you are your brothers keeper!
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Country: USA | Posts: 48 |
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Religion - What's the big deal?
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