| Author |
 Topic  |
|
rbryanhines
22 Posts |
 Posted - 04/02/2004 : 17:28:48
|
| Kile, for a person who has been handling claims for 5 years you sure are an expert. You're wrong and it's not that simple! |
 |
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 20:41:41
|
| Yes it is. |
|
|
|
richc222
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 21:03:48
|
| ......... bored are we??!!! [:D] |
|
|
|
JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 21:04:48
|
Kile these fellers are in the wrong business.
They ought to be selling horse manure. By the train load.
Of course, no one around here is buying this week, so for them, finding a new choir to preach to might be a good idea as well. |
|
|
|
richc222
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 21:15:52
|
| ... back to the original post, I personally know of local contractor's who have sold the use of their business name to a 'storm trooper' and have been left owing large unpaid material bills with dissatisfied home owners hounding them. From Dallas, Lousiana, Arizona, have seen the same faces. I managed a business in C/S, Colo and met a roofer who raised his family in motels across the south, ran into him 16 yrs later while vacationing in Az. continuing the 'old family tradition'. The same group of people who 15 years ago chased storms are still doing it today with their children who have grown up in it. Maybe the question should be how do you warn/educate an insured in an area you have just entered, and will soon be leaving... (I would NEVER try to steer any thread in a positive direction!!) [^] |
|
|
|
Reconstruction Man
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 21:36:11
|
Kile, you stated:
"As a rule, O&P is NOT paid on single trades. When premiums are computed historical loss data is used and since [i]most[/] small losses don't include O&P it is not figured in. It's that simple".
So if a single trade contractor breaks out his / her materials, tax, labor, general conditions, contingency, overhead and profit costs, and shows them to you, you have not been recognizing their [critical] OHP business cost factors?
Bryan,
Go ahead and justify your understanding about OHP and single trade cost compensation. And don't let the emotional outburst from any carrier con stop you. There is some really good folks here, ignore the rest.
Churchill once said, "Don't ever, ever, ever give up".
You have a right to express yourself (according to the spirit of the conduct guidelines of this sight) that some of the regulars here seem to think they are above.
So...What is your view Bryan?
|
|
|
|
Czar
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 22:33:33
|
To all adjusters on this site:
I came across this site a few weeks ago and first found it very helpful and informative as to issues that arise during a normal days work, as well as a forum to ask a group of experienced and might I add witty adjusters questions related to my profession. Now I come and visit and find this CON-tractor spewing non-coherent words, and have to read him drone on about how he is owed this and how he is owed that, and how insurance companies hoard all of this money, gouge the homeowner, and do not want to pay him for what a job is worth. Re-CON since you most likely run your contracting "business" out of your car and pay your labor 6 bucks and hour without benefits or WC, why would you even need O & P. I guess what I am trying to say is that I agree with every other adjuster on this page, leave and go and try to rob some old lady of her savings or whatever it is you contractors do. |
|
|
|
Reconstruction Man
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 23:15:19
|
Czar,
Actually I / we try to keep rabid adjusting types away from old ladies and gentlemen.
You got recent tags? |
|
|
|
Czar
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 23:46:28
|
Recon let me tell you this short story, and you tell me what we are supposed to think about contractors and their dealings.
I went to inspection for a hail claim. It was a $750,000.00 house. (To be fair, I will add this part) After I conducted my inspection with the contractor, I informed him that I did not see any hail damage, and believed the marks to be deterioration. I had an engineer inspect for about $2,000.00, and they told me I was wrong that there was hail damage and the roof was to be replaced. So be it, sometimes we are wrong. (back to the story) After going back out to scope the house, I came up with 55 sqaures and wrote an estimate for around $22,000.00, to include the roof and painting a deck. I then received an estimate from the roofer for $34,500.00, which may I add he did not supply to the homeowner. It included O & P and 75 squares. I called the homeowner and explained that I was not going to be able to reach a/p with his contractor and requested him to get another bid. Within 10 min. I got a call from the contractor and said that he would do it for $23,000.00. Seems sort of strange that he would come down over $11,000.00 if he was going to lose money? This was 5 months ago. I then today received a call from the contractor for the holdback amount. I told him fine, I will just need to drive by the house to make sure the work is complete. The contractor hesitated and then told me "well the job hasn't started yet but it should be done in a few weeks". He went on to say that he was in a hurry to go to Chicago for the summer for the hailstorm that hit last year. Your thoughts? |
|
|
|
olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2004 : 00:15:00
|
| Recon, you have an unique world view of insurance, and an unusual method of delivery that leave many of scratching our heads. We are simple in the trenches grunts, and frankly I find it easier to sit down with war and peace then to try and follow your thoughts. Please try to put your thoughs in simple terms so we know what we are responding to. If you are providing some kind of conspirecy theory, try a ufo sight. |
|
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2004 : 08:00:01
|
Mark, it seems to me that Con man is mad that insurance companies do all they can to keep from getting screwed by contractors. He thinks, like many contractors that I've had the unfortunate experience to deal with, that since the insured paid their premiums the carrier should pay whatever the contractor decides he wants to charge. That's why they have replacement cost, right?
I still haven't figured out where he finds the time to bloviate at such a level while still running his "succesful" contracting business. It's even more baffling than his rambling posts. |
|
|
|
Reconstruction Man
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2004 : 09:06:14
|
Czar,
Sounds like the "contractor" did a 30 mph drive by "guesstimate" while under the influence of corn mash (improperly distilled) listening to a "how to get rich in 3 mile off shore real estate investment deals" cd.
"Competition" slithers here and there...
Curious though, what was roofing system, pitch of the roof and number of stories?
And what damage did the engineer report?
|
|
|
|
Reconstruction Man
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2004 : 09:15:52
|
Kile,
Kile, you stated yesterday:
"As a rule, O&P is NOT paid on single trades. When premiums are computed historical loss data is used and since [i]most[/] small losses don't include O&P it is not figured in. It's that simple".
So if a single trade contractor breaks out his / her materials, tax, labor, general conditions, contingency, overhead and profit costs, and shows them to you, you have not been recognizing their [critical] OHP business cost factors?
|
|
|
|
Reconstruction Man
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2004 : 09:23:15
|
Kile,
You also stated yesterday:
"When premiums are calculated it is figured in that simple single trade repairs will not require the services of a GC so your entire premise is completely wrong".
Would that be true of an insurance agent using a premium estimating program based on SF, Total Component and / or Zip code based construction costs? |
|
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2004 : 09:43:55
|
Um, yes. What is your point? Premiums are computed based on a large number of factors. One of those factors is replacement cost of the dwelling which does include O&P. But many other factors go into that calculation, including the fact that the overwelming majority of claims are much smaller than a complete rebuild, usually single trade claims, carpet replacement, roof replacement, fence damage. That is also figured in and those repair prices don't include profit for an unneccesary GC.
You're talking about one of the most heavily regulated industries in the entire country. Every state in the country has an elected or appointed official and an entire department dedicated to regulating insurance. With the exception of utilities I don't know of any other industry that must get state approval of it's pricing and submit to annual audits. I also don't know of any other industry that gets sued as much as the insurance industry. (Just about every lawsuit in this country involves an insurance company to some degree.)
Please tell me, with all of this regulation, legislative, judicial and market forces, how the hell is the insurance industy going to be able to implement this vast conspiracy that you seem to think they are all involved in. |
Edited by - KileAnderson on 04/03/2004 09:45:22 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
The perils of poor performance: Volume 1
Forum Locked
Topic Locked
