| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Admin
547 Posts |
 Posted - 02/14/2004 : 23:03:42
|
Bulletin Board Transfer.
By: Concerned adjuster :: Posted: 2/14/2004 4:02:00 PM
Rumor has it that NCA has developed a new program with Insurance companies to utilize the contractor's estimates on hail claims without any estimates written by the adjuster. The roofer will send an estimate in and all the independent company will do is a diagram and QC work on the risk. All of this reducing the commission paid to the adjuster, thus reducing the fee paid by the insurance company. NCA is soliciting other independent companies to present this to the insurance company as a group effort from the IA companies. There has been an actual training seminar with ABC roofing out of Minnesota to train them on Xactimate.
More info to come as it becomes known.
Posted By: Concerned adjuster :: Posted: 2/14/2004 4:02:00 PM
|
|
|
Admin
547 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 23:05:16
|
Bulletin Board Transfer:
Reply By: katadj-2/14/2004 - 17:50
Anything to do with ABC is fraught with issues that may concern us all. They are the largest stormer of all, doing 50 million + per year in 2000, one can olny guess what they do now. Look with a careful eye upon this outfit, many years of exposure to them has left a not so sweet taste. "Caveat Emptor"
Reply By: katadj-2/14/2004 - 17:50 |
 |
|
|
Admin
547 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 23:06:51
|
Bulletin Board Transfer.
Reply By: Steve H-2/14/2004 - 20:12
Without knowing anything, IMHO: With the exporting of jobs, etc., we are a bit sensitive to news like this, but we have seen the cycle of carriers using roofers come around before. It is fraught with peril for all parties and never lasts.
Reply By: Steve H-2/14/2004 - 20:12
|
Roy Cupps -
CatAdjuster.org :: Contact\Feedback :: Adjuster Roster :: Current Forum |
|
|
|
katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 01:16:37
|
NCA has been through many changes in the past years. In 1996 they were a first class outfit, run by Dave Ross. Whomever is the CEO and running the operation now has made drastic changes and this latest deal, (if indeed it is correct) will, IMHO, bring the company to its swift demise.
The deal to use the mentioned company, which some of us are privy to extremely valuable knowledge of their sales tactics, business plans & methods and know present and past principals & employees of the aforementioned firm.
Perhaps there is a way to educate the carrier, prior to them being taken to the proverbial cleaners and paying extremely high prices which in turn will raise every one's premiums, not to mention taking the bread from our tables.
Always remember the 6 "P's" Principal:
Proper Planning Prevents Pi$$ Poor Performance.
Any and all sugestions and or information should be posted immediately.
|
|
|
|
jlombardo
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 07:29:41
|
| They can't make their grand plan work without adjusters......... |
|
|
|
CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 08:44:23
|
Joe, I'm not picking on you, but people have to realize that a lot of claim situations CAN and ARE and WILL be taken care of for carriers, through executed and implemented plans that do not include "adjusters".
This is just a manifestation of the "appraisal claim process", focusing on losses from a specific peril.
In another thread last week I mentioned that preferred vendor contractors do a lot of this exact type of work on day to day claims. So, here it is on the door step of those in the cat claim niche.
The news of this means a lot of things, but it should not come as a surprise.
There are too many people (and I speak in generic terms) that consider themselves as independent claims business people, that have their heads stuck firmly in the sand; due to their stubborn beliefs or blind ideals that some claim file vendor or another will always be there for them with an arm full of files.
I personally have a great dislike for hail claims, and could care less who handles them, and in whatever manner that is done. But, I recognize that it is a substantial income source for many independent claims people.
My concern is the bigger picture and the further encroachment into the claims industry of non-traditional solutions.
You people better soon learn to stand up as a group, and have a common voice, and a common purpose to establish a concensus on your approach to saving some traditional methods of the niche in which you seek an income.
I can tell you that hanging on to the shirttail of a vendor, will not bring the results that you may seek.
Surely it is getting clearer, that the need of an "adjuster" in the field, in the claims industry - be that for cat claims or day to day claims - is a declining trend. |
|
|
|
CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 09:48:13
|
Going back to the Bulletin Board, where this topic originated, I've noted Jim Lakes's stand on the issue, and Joe's additional thoughts.
I suppose to preface my further comments, I'll make the statement that should be obvious to all - in general, the claims function no longer has its foundation as the adjustment of the claim, but that it has become a processing mechanism required to fullfill the obligations of a contract.
I appreciate Jim's stand on this matter, and he may in time prove to be an important ally in the struggle to maintain traditional concepts of claims adjustment.
But, what is happening is all a 'numbers game' within the concept of this processing mechanism.
Simple illustration, "survey says" - I don't know what the average loss cost of a hail damaged residential roof is anymore, but a $4,000 average shouldn't be too far off - the median fee at this gross loss price point is $312.00; with the extremes at $500.00 and $185.00 at the other end.
Take that $312.00, and I'm not going to guess at the volume of hail claims reported per year on average, or of those, the amount that get assigned for field inspection; just look at it per 1,000 assigned field claims and multiply your own ideas of volume.
$312.00 gross fee x 1,000 field claims = $312,000.00.
"You" take 65% or $202,800.00, and the vendor has $109,200.00.
It should be very clear to everyone, even with the most basic information available, that an alternative processing mechanism for this peril; can and will cost - as a processing expense - a lot less than $312,000.00 per 1,000 hail claims. It should also be clear to everyone that the handling costs of hail claims is many millions per year.
Yes Joe, some folks (most folks) will do anything to make a buck. And, this 'alternative buck' is going to be a much smaller buck that is dispersed by carriers as an expense, in return for the processing mechanism to deal with the obligations to the contract (claims).
Vendors getting on board for this alternative processing mechanism, will work with a smaller gross fee, but retain a larger portion of it, and have a much greater volume of units to process.
This will also add a couple of more rows of desks to each claims call center, and it will spawn a new breed of desk top solutions providers. |
|
|
|
katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 10:54:24
|
Clayton,
Thank you for the quite accurate and monetary specific information.
The average hail claim is probably much, much more than your guesstimate if you factor in the commercial and then the non roofing material direct hail damages such as siding, windows, etc.
Even using a number like $4,000 per claim as the average, and there are 50,000 +/- claims per year involving hail, and using your projections of the LOWEST fee schedule of $185 per claim and we getting only 60% of that, the numbers are significant, as in $111.00 per claim X 50,000 only equates to $5,550,000.00 that we will NOT receive.
If we calculate the median fee schedule and %, as you proffered, we will NOT receive $202.80 per claim and the coffers of the adjusting world will be diminished by $10,140,000.00.
The math is there, for the benefit of the IA provider, the savings , (on the surface) to the carrier, the lack of income to the adjuster.
The chicken house door, (and it is a very large door), is being opened and there are many a fox to welcome the change on the horizon!
The proposed scenario will affect the staff adjusters as well as the local independents and the catastrophe adjusting community. The carriers will benefit from the savings of staffing the storm with the elimination of cat duty pay, auto rental, per diem costs, (they think), until the costs per claim rise to the heavens due to the OPEN DOOR POLICY.
The independent local adjusters income, as well as our ranks, will suffer enormously.
Adjusters, whomever, wherever, need to come together, NOW. Or we all can kiss the profession, as we know it farewell in the next few years.
|
|
|
|
Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 12:45:04
|
Time for your personal Minister of Propaganda to play the Devils Advocate.
Ahem...
I have personally beat the hide off the drum for us to form a professional trade association for quite some time. I saw an obvious need for one a long time ago, particularly in light of every other group of two or more lost souls coming together to form one. But, to no avail. I could put up with the natural human reaction to resist change. I could deal with sabotage from the vendors who see it as a threat to their control over their herd of serfs. The carriers, of course, view any such collective thought to be yet another enemy to their bloated executive bonus plan. All that was fine and good. I even entertained thoughts of forming my own association and being a sort of Hoffa-like dictator.
But...after seeing the lack of impetus to move off square one, I began to wonder if the effort is worth it. Are you, individually and collectively, in fact, worthy of being a part of a greater good? After all, as the carriers and vendors alike view you as just so much disposable commodity, why should I expect you to act otherwise? A certain vendor once remarked after a successful putt that since a person only needed about two days ride along to be trained as a catastrophe adjuster, why should he care about experienced professionals? "Certifications?, we can print those up like popcorn on the computer!"
So here we are, gazing at the brave new future. Oddly enough, you carrier staff people are in the same boat as us independents. How does that make you feel about your company loyalty, job security, and career development? If anything, the carrier employees should be the ones leading the charge to save their group health plans and company cars by going the union route thru the already established organized unions.
Amazing...simply amazing, when the dawn breaks tomorrow on our collective vocational headstone, will our spirits then whisper into the wind, "You don't know what you've got till it's gone"? If, only...if, only. |
|
|
|
katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 14:13:43
|
GB,
With your permission, I would love to second; third and overwhelmingly applaud your insight.
WE are our own worst enemy, from the braggadocio of earning power, with no mention of expense, to the two day wonders that can climb 15 a day and get all of them passed the examiner.
How can anyone with any kind of common sense, work at the MOST dangerous, life-threatening sector of our profession for the lowest fee schedule?
Just to climb a 2 story 8/12, and scope, draw and photograph it has to be worth 3 times the examination of a simple theft claim or an ice dam claim or even a small fire.
What in the world are we doing, risking life and limb, (and yes, I have a few dead friends), by taking on these assignments.
Either Im too old to be in the business, or too stupid to understand the thinking of the younger adjuster/appraiser, or the mind set of the IA vendor, or carrier for that matter, that promotes the new vision. After many years and 10s of thousands of claims all I can say is I refuse to bend over.
The burger flipping and Wal-Mart greeting or honey truck driving is not in this guys future, but doing something that will make this profession what it was 20 years ago, IS.
Only when we can stand together, and say, Take this Job and shove it, until we get what we are entitled too, will WE be our own man/woman.
Personally, this whole thing, the use of the DRP, since the 80s and the Approved Repair Shop, and the Call Centers, and now the dispensing of that segment to the offshore, non-understandable English speaking claim representatives is nothing short of anti labor.
There are other phrases that come to mind but we are trying, (albeit with a great deal of trepidation), to be kind, courteous and helpful.
Those few IA vendors like Jim Lakes, that refuse to bow under are rare. Perhaps we all need to align ourselves with these kind of reputable concerned and decent people and tell the others where to go.
|
|
|
|
katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 14:38:03
|
| Removed By poster |
Edited by - katadj on 02/15/2004 15:40:59 |
|
|
|
katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 14:50:08
|
| Removed By Poster |
Edited by - katadj on 02/15/2004 15:41:44 |
|
|
|
CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 15:06:42
|
Okay, so we recognize the "change on the horizon", as detailed in this thread; and we don't like it. So what? And, I may be presumptive to suggest "we" don't like it. There is no indication in this thread, that anymore than 4 or so people don't like it.
Makes me think that each person reviewing this potential major change, and other issues brought forward in the last week that are related; falls into one of the general categories below:
(1) Don't like it, will do something about it
(2) Don't like it, want to do something about it
(3) Don't like it, hope somebody does something about it
(4) Don't like it, not likely anybody can do something about it
(5) Don't care, today my source of files is secure
(6) Don't care, it won't affect me, much
(7) Don't care, it won't affect me, this year
(8) Don't care, I'll take all the files I can get, until it changes
(9) This is all nonsense, it does not affect me
(10) This is all nonsense, it won't affect me for sometime
(11) This is all nonsense, it won't happen
(12) This is all nonsense, nobody really cares
Once "you" stop blowing smoke from either end at this wind of change, becuase it keeps blowing back in your face; "you" better develop an action plan.
"You" need to find some people in the 1st category, and that impetus will attract people in the 2nd category.
Once a bit more concrete information is available regarding the reality of this scheme, would a start of "doing something" be to formulate a letter and send it to all claim vendors detailing the affect of this change, and asking for their clear indication of whether or not they do or will support the noted new processing mechanism for hail claims; or whether they support and will continue to support traditional claims handling concepts? From the results of that, the next objective could be planned and implemented.
Of course, you have to figure out what letterhead to use or create. Seems like the type of letter an association or concerned group would write; on behalf of their labor community.
That is just the first thought, about "doing something"; but it does involve two or more major steps. It is "doing something" that should be the focus. Blowing smoke at it will only cloud the issue and the focus.
|
|
|
|
katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 15:24:02
|
Gee wilikers, maybe we should all have a meeting at the co-op hall and how much we should charge for a bushel of corn. Naw, that's for farmers.
OK, lets get together at the local auction barn and see what a head or cow/calf unit is going to bring before we load em up and head em out. Naw, that's for cattlemen.
We could just sit here and watch what is happening, or wonder what is happening, or get off the fence post and MAKE something happen.
What is wrong with having a virtual co-operative, establishing limited rules and regulations, agreeing on a reasonable fee schedule and only working for those that honor and agree to them?
It ain't rocket science people, or would the proper term for some be sheeple?
Sure some of us will go down, dont bother me one iota. Id rather go down with all barrels firing, than to be a POW.
Any takers, my hat is in the ring
..
|
|
|
|
trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 15:58:32
|
Roof Catastrophe Adjusters will perish
WHY
1, Satellite technology will replace roof climbers.
2. Call centers will settle the data from the satellite.
3. Roof climbers can become proficient with two days training.
4. The vendors(fee agency) will send questionable roof climbers and the carriers will accept them under temporary employee arraignments.
5. The supply pool is inexhaustible with new canidates. |
|
|
|
trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 16:02:07
|
| I,M in but we need more than 10 or 20. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Change on the horizon
Forum Locked
