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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
 Posted - 02/24/2004 : 09:05:47
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Under various threads, much discussion is centered around changes on the horizon as well as the calls from some corners that the sky is falling.
These threads variously describe our futures and fates as cat adjusters as largely becoming antiquated or no longer needed due to forces beyond our control. Some would have us believe that DRP's are the sealers of our fates, while carrier call centers, and the increased use of appraisers is seen by some as the nail in our coffins.
Thus I am curious, not so much perhaps as what each of you may see as the cause of all this 'dreaded and horrible change' (my words), but what one thing you might do if you could be King For A Day to change things back to the way they were (whatever that means)?
I will start by proffering what I personally think would do far more to improve cat adjusting than even the disappearance of call centers or DRP's.
If I could only make one change which I think would inevitably change cat adjusting in major meaningful ways, I would pray Leonard's closed down their operations as a license mill. Do any of you really believe that any state needs 39,000 licensed adjusters?
If ever there was a nasty little family secret that we either "tip toe" around or never discuss in public, this is it. Whether you like it or not, it is a topic of much conversation among examiners, claims managers, and carrier personnel, and not in a positive sort of way.
In my humble opinion, it is the one singular source of more bad press and the negative public image which is generalized, characterized and attributed to all of us as cat adjusters by way of a collective guilt which flows from association as cat adjusters. |
Edited by - JimF on 02/24/2004 09:43:53 |
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LMLinson
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 10:33:24
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| I agree that an apprenticeship program would be beneficial. My change would also be centered around training requirements. |
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LarryW
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 11:50:48
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| In my humble opinion licensing laws make no sense at all. They give a false sense of qualification. I can understand licensing P.A.s as there is a financial relationship between them and a policyholder. That policyholder always has redress if an adjuster (qualified or otherwise) screws up because the insurance co. must always meet their obligations under the policy. Without licensing (only another form of taxation) companies and vendors would be forced to check backgrounds and experience levels of prospective I.A.s. Just my thoughts on the matter. |
Larry Wright |
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katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 12:50:46
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IMHO, The one (1) change would be a program, not unlike what most of the professional trades use. That is, a 3-4 year educational apprentice program that could function in the following manner:
Classes would teach the following:
1) First year, Policy review and understandings, using the ISO policies as the basis. Coupled with a ride –along with a seasoned trainer for a period of time, and passing the required tests of the aforementioned. Pay scale proportionate to the contribution of work and grades. Ability to work small loses independently with strict supervision.
2) Second year, light commercial policy review and understandings, coupled with exposure to BOP type losses in the company of a seasoned commercial adjuster. Ability to work on limited personal line losses with compensation geared to performance, accuracy and acceptance of the work product.
Continued policy review and testing by approved selected teachers.
3) Third year, exposure to larger commercial lines, (if student wishes). Ability to work most personal line losses and small commercial losses. Compensation to be determined by performance, accuracy and acceptance.
With the ability to understand and apply the coverage, cause and costs of the losses the student will now be qualified. In this manner, the ranks will be returned to the professionalism, credibility, and remuneration, which is deserved.
This would be, by no small means, a difficult and expensive education. The costs of which will have to be determined, allocated and supervised.
Without the proper education, experience in claims handling, the untrained, unskilled and unknowing adjuster will surely create a quagmire of problems for the IA and the Carrier and themselves.
Will it ever happen? Not in my lifetime, but it needs to happen, and soon.
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 14:27:09
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| I change, yup I have one. Right now claims expences cannot be considered when setting rates, That is what i would chnage, then they could afford to have us control claims costs. |
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okclarryd
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 15:14:49
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I have to agree with the consensus on this. It irks me that a guy or gal with no or very little experience can make the same percentage or day rate that I do. I'm not sure I'm any smarter than they are but I have sure seen more wet ceilings and hail damaged roofs than they have.
C'mon, CCarr. I'll show ya a few.
I was told today by my employer / vendor / IA company that I HAVE to increase the liability limits on my auto policy to comply with their underwriter's requests.
I tore some $40 slacks a couple of days ago climbing in an attic trying to get a picture of some water damage. Then one of the batteries for my Sony camera took a dump at the tune of $61.20 at Wal Mart. I get to pay all my expenses while deployed and I'm not real sure I'm getting what the contract stated way back when I signed it.
And now I get to provide them with more coverage??
The pile of straws may have just collapsed. And the newby (that needs the job just as bad as I do) is getting the same amount that I am and I get to help him write his claims at 10:30 to 11:30 at night.
A career change may be in order.
"Would you like fries with that, Sir??" |
LARRY D HARDIN |
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LMLinson
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 15:31:38
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| The vendor I work for has never even hinted that they were interested in how much coverage I have on my automobile. Remember that new adjusters have to pay for camera batteries, auto insurance, slacks and they also appreciate the fact that you are willing to help them late at night. Nobody did it for me but I offer if there is a new adjuster in the mix that needs help. My Dr. told me to lay off fried food so I will ask you to hold the fries, thanks. |
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goose
57 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 15:42:40
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| I will agree with the experience requirements. I apprenticed for months at no charge, in fact I offered to pay the 2 guys that got me started , and then worked branch claims assist with daily supervision for over a year. But the first cat I went to blew my mind. No school can come close to a good apprecticeship. |
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okclarryd
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 19:24:07
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LMLinson
I know they have the same expenses and I know first hand that they appreciate the help. And, I know they are slower, more easily befuddled, etc.
I just think that the experience and knowledge should have worth to the employer.
I also know it helps to vent every now and again.
But, they're cooked in Canola oil!!! |
LARRY D HARDIN |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 21:21:12
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| I started out 5 years ago and every year I have made significantly more than the year before and the fee schedule has not changed. You give yourself a "raise" by becoming more proficient at the job and doing more in a day than you used to and by getting called out more often. That's where the experience helps. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2004 : 15:00:34
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Curtis, I personally feel disappointed and discouraged that you could honestly say that within this website people have not tried to share some knowledge that would be of benefit to people new or newer to the claims industry.
I have seen and dealt with a lot of wet ceilings, over a span of a lot of years; and yet still, several posts ahead of yours LarryD is kind enough and willing to discuss the technical aspects of them further with me. I won't take LarryD up on his offer, but I'm sure if you asked nice he may be willing to substitute yourself for that exercise.
Other than that, I don't want to express to you how I really feel about your comments. I can't imagine how a lot of other people who frequent this website and that are considerably more talented than I, and in the sharing of their catastrophe claims experience, must feel regarding your comments. |
Edited by - CCarr on 02/25/2004 15:08:51 |
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Dadx9
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2004 : 15:17:42
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| Da'Beev, I must concur with CCarr. I have been blessed to have men and women invest in me. Likewise, I have become a Sage to many a "newbee". I would make the entire "higher education" or licensing go away. I would call the Old Sagestogether and develop a practical apprecticeship propgram.(Guess we'd have to go back 100 years to erase the "enlightened" mindset). Priorities? 1. People skills. 2. Reading skills. 3. Construction background / experience. "Sit at my feet young apprentice, let me pass on the traditions of the tribe. Let us journey together. Let me tell you through hard, hard, hard work you can become a Master in the land of Adjusting." Seriously, If Red Mountain Boy, Scott, Sanford, Katadj and others had not seen the potential and invested in my life, who and where would I be? Thanks Fellas! But alas we can't go back 100 years. And you should praise God that I am not "King for a day." Grace & Peace. |
Don
"To be held in the heart of a friend is to be a king."
Bruce Cockburn |
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LMLinson
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2004 : 15:24:26
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Message for Curtis:
We have all been through the first storm experience. During my first storm I had nobody really to work with and ask questions. My Director of Claims did spend as much time as he was able and I had a very good Team Manager from the carrier. It isn't the fault of the new adjuster that training is lacking and it isn't the fault of the folks that have been out awhile either. Programs have to be run through the adjusting firms we work for. My entire year in 2003 was spent training two other adjusters, both whom were appreciative and respectful. |
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johnpostava
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2004 : 08:23:15
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| My first adjusting experience was apprenticing for a flood adjuster in Alvin, TX in '79 (man, I'm old). I got hooked on adjusting and got a job at an insurance carrier as a staff adjuster. I did that for 3 years and opened up my first cat company. The three years I spent at Fireman's Fund were invaluable to me. It was there I learned coverege, negotiation, statement taking, investigation, subrogation and legal depositions and testimony. It made me a better cat adjuster. Newcomers to our field should seriously consider spending a few years early in their carriers at an insurance carrier. Of course, the money won't be as good and you won't feel that adrenilin pumping each time you see a hurricane symbol on the weather channel. But you will, however, get to work with some top notch carrier adjusters and meet other professionals and homeowners in your local community. |
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gloverb
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2004 : 17:58:46
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Now, back to the original question! How 'bout developing a system whereby adjusters are matched up with losses based on experience. That way you guys with 15, 20 years of adjusting experience will get only the large, complicated losses & leave these small no count hail claims to the newbys. That way the "experienced" adjuster will probably make $5000, maybe $6000+ for every loss that he handles, & the newbys will only make $200-$300 per loss. Now that's fair! Ain't it?
Now, let's get serious! How much experience is really needed to work most hail claims? I come from an insurance background, 20+yrs as a safety engineer on the commercial side of it. 5 yrs ago I started doing adjusting work as an independent contractor doing homeowner restoration work. Basically I've been adjusting property losses for free to get the construction business & finally figured out that I could make more doing only the adjusting with less headaches.
A couple of the posts complained about Leonards & how many licensed adjusters there are. My question is "How many of the licensed adjusters are actually doing adjusting work?" To get into cat work, it's not so much about what you know. It's more about who you know! We all know people that have had their adjusters license for several years & have never worked as an adjuster.
I don't want to step on too many toes, but for the most part, experience, especially related to cat work, is highly overated. And, if a guy with 1 year experience can provide the same work asthe guy with 20yrs. experience, shouldn't he be paid the same.
If you want to get into some "real" adjusting why don't you try the commercial casualty side of it, specifically liability & worker's compensation. This way your experience will really be tested. |
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Brooks Todd
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 00:18:01
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Greetings:
That is good stuff, but once again y'all make it seem like you need 10 years adjusting experience to spot damage.I realize it takes a certain skill to be a pro adjuster, but why can't folks with major building experience break into the business?
I come to believe from this web-site, that y'all don,t want anyone with brains to get into this field.
Thanks
Look forward to the response
BLT |
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If I Could Only Make 1 Change To Change Adjusting
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