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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
 Posted - 04/17/2004 : 18:54:36
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C'mon, Jim. Bush won the electoral college. For over 200 years that's how all of our presidents have been elected. The media recounted the votes every which way for months afterwards and Bush won those recounts too.
As far as the comparrisons to Vietnam, they couldn't be more wrong. Let me elaborate.
In Vietnam, When military advisers arrived in country Ho Chi Min had control of North Vietnam and when Saigon fell a decade and a half and 55,000 American dead later He was in control of North and South Vietnam.
In Iraq, Sadam Hussein is in a jail at an undisclosed location. We will be turning over sovereignty to the Iraqi people on June 30th and the job of building a democracy will begin.
In Vietnam, the fighting was done by an army of conscripts, plucked from civilian life and sent half the world away to a jungle battlefield they were not prepared for.
In Iraq, a well trained, all volunteer force of proffesional soldiers took control of a country the size of California in a little over a month.
There were single days in Vietnam when more soldiers were lost than we have lost in an entire year.
Every war the US fights is not Vietnam. As a matter of fact, only one war the US has fought has been Vietnam. The difference here is GWB is fighting the war the right way. Like a Republican. Only Democrats get us into messes like Vietnam. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 19:26:35
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quote:
Originally posted by LarryW
I guess you don't believe in the Supreme Court's right to decide a national legal issue either.
The legal question before the US Supreme Court was a "state's rights" issue from Florida and not a "national issue" of law.
You no doubt forget or forgot what Candidate Bush had to say about "states rights" and the interference of the Federal Courts in "states rights issues" back during the debates when he was a candidate.
Of course, Candidate Bush said many things to get elected which President Bush has repeatedly failed to follow.
Yes, I am aware of the Electoral College.
Name one other occasion where the US Supreme Court decided a national election for President.
5 to 4.
Five to Four.
The Electoral College merely rubber stamped the results ensuing from the US Supreme Court decision to interfere with the Supreme Court of Florida.
The United States Supreme Court had the FINAL vote and THEIR 5 votes were THE ONLY VOTES THAT COUNTED.
Rest assured I will join 50,999,896 voters cheated in the 2000 Presidential Election and more cheated since, in making sure that a long overdue change to our government happens in November.
Rest assured as well there won't be any hanging chads in this year's election, and the only thing left hanging will be George Bush in effigy.
George Bush. What a scoundrel. What a disgrace. |
Edited by - JimF on 04/17/2004 19:39:47 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 19:47:47
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All the votes counted, Jim. There's nothing left of this horse to beat. If you read the Supreme Court decision you will see that they did not in fact declare Bush the victor, they simply stated that the selective manual recounts that Gore was requesting, since he had already lost the mechanical recount, would violate the contitutionaly guaranteed right of equal protection. They vacated the Florida Supreme Court's partisan ruling ordering selective recounts and sent it back to them for reconsideration. It's funny how you want to harp on the partisanship of the U.S. Supreme Court but you overlook the partisanship of the Florida Supreme Court which started this mess in the first place.
The Florida Supreme Court decided that the rules the U.S. Supreme court had outlined to give equal protection would take too long and therefore dropped the case making the Liberally dominated Florida Supreme Court the actual body that made Bush the winner of the court battles. Since Bush won the mechanical Florida recount the electoral votes were awarded to him and he won in the Electoral college. Under the rules set forth in the Constitution of the United States of America George Bush became our 43rd president and in my opinion the best president we have had since the best of them all Ronald Reagan. God Bless them both. |
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alanporco
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 20:08:26
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JimF: Kile is a good student of history. There have been several Presidents elected by Electoral College shenanigans. The Electoral College is an antiquated method that was devised to meet to the infrastructure available at the turn of the nineteenth century. Because of modern technology the College should be replaced by a system of direct popular vote. But it probably won't be as it has served us well for over 200 years.
Work hard for the candidate of your choice. That's the great thing about our system. |
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givemeroofs
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 20:30:31
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| Great Moses! It is quite clear that Jim cannot think for himself and is a party mouth of rhetoric. Get over it, GWB won and is the greatest president since Regan. But of course your senator from North Carolina has all but dropped off the radar screen. Wonder why? I guess the public has spoken. Just as they will in November. Kerry will be at home eating chowder and drinking vodka with Teddy Kennedy. Maybe Kennedy will drive him to Chappaquidick. By the way, enjoy paying more taxes under your guy. Oh...and one more thing. If algore was president during 9/11, I think he would still have a sub-committee out on what to do. Don't mess with Texas! |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 22:06:51
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Mister "Party Mouth Of Rhetoric" Yourself, you're looking in the mirror even as you write such nonsense. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
You didn't miss the icons of the Far Right prose either. You have the Right Wing Party line down pretty well.
You're hot air with no substance.
Now go back to day dreaming about your world of political reality via Osama being Falwell and Osama being Limbaugh. Three of a kind. |
Edited by - JimF on 04/17/2004 22:33:35 |
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LarryW
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 22:13:48
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I guess the war issue revolves around whether we want to fight the war here or elsewhere. The religious zealots declared war on us and they are prosecuting it on us. My vote is that it be fought in their homeland, not ours.
givemeroofs: I think you are wrong about Algore, he would probably have surrendered by now.
JimF: 50,999,896, it is hard to imagine that many folks could be wrong. My whole point here is that if the last election had gone the other way and if Al Gore were now the President, we would probably still be at war. That being the case, I would wholeheartedly be supporting Mr. Gore in our war efforts. I just think we should be united against those who want to kill us. Thats all. Oh, one other point, comparing our President to Adolph Hitler, as leoncrow did, is disgusting and obscene. When he makes that statement, he accuses everyone in this country of complicity in horrendous and heinous conduct. If he really and truly believes that, then he should renounce his citizenship and join the AlQueda or whichever terrorist organization he happens to support. Or maybe he already has.
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Larry Wright |
Edited by - LarryW on 04/17/2004 22:15:45 |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 22:32:27
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The truth is that not one single person here, not one single poster is going to change even one mind or one vote in this Fall's election.
America is and has been a country divided. On more issues than simply an upcoming presidential election.
Strong emotions and feelings for or against issues, political parties, and politicians of any stripe define for each of us our own connection to groups we feel share our goals, or beliefs, or values, experience, or even our hopes and fears.
Since none of us are going to change any minds with our paraochial partisan views here, why don't we find other issues which serve to unite us rather than waste tme and energy spewing the venomous poisons of partisanship which only serve to divide.
I'm pretty sure Kile knows how I feel about this election and I know where he stands, so why are we wasting time posting just to hear ourselves talk?
I trust the electorate will do the right thing this Fall no mattter the political outcome. Ultimately, whatever will be will be.
May God Bless America. |
Edited by - JimF on 04/17/2004 23:32:46 |
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leoncrow
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 22:36:52
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| stired you texas boys up a bit didn"t I. Viet nam 69 |
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LarryW
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 23:03:34
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JimF: Cheers to you. Your last post is very well put.
Leoncrow: May god bless all of our servicemen, past & present. (except the traitors) |
Larry Wright |
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 23:12:26
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| So what is your defination of traitor. Anyone who disagrees with any Bush policy. Afganistan is still an incomplete work and I hear the Rushamanicas talking about who we are going to invade next. Meanwhile we will have a scapegoat soon. Any bets, maybe the FBI or rice or Ashcroft, Maybe even Chaney. I was so relieved to find out the we were not told that we invaded Iraq because of the existence of WMD but because of the potential. last time Bush Gore this time Bush Kerry, where is Pat Paulson when we need him. |
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Wes
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 02:19:15
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| I think we should invade that small country off the coast of California. What is it called, Hi Wi Ee or something like that. I hear it has beautiful scenery and the volcanos may provide some claims work. :-) |
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sbeau4014
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 08:56:50
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Older,
Would Timothy McVeigh fall in the catagory of a "traitor"? He is after all a past serviceman and I hope there aren't too many that could say "my god bless him". Jim has some good points in his last post, it's great to live in a place that we are divided and we can have opposing points of views. I for one wouldn't want it other way and for those who have studied history you know what types of govt's are formed when there is only one ideology in the political system. |
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 10:17:41
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| McVeigh is a criminal not a traitor. Perhaps the American Taliban is a traitor. My point was that if you listen to Rush and his ilk, they clearly push the point that anyone who opposes President Bush is a traitor and is helping the enemy. That attitude is an attack on our freedoms, and maybe we have people who are so pro Bush that they are becoming traitors to democracy. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 10:35:19
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Mark, I listen to Rush when I can. I don't hear that at all. Perhaps it's just perspective. Things look different depending upon the point of view from which you approach them. People who oppose conservatives often hear in Rush's words what conservatives don't even begin to hear. Perhaps it is because if he says something about one subject or person, you simply believe that the same applies to all.
John Walker Lindh was a traitor. He left his country and took up arms against our army. That makes him a traitor. Tim McVeih was a traitor. He didn't just commit a criminal act. He targeted a government building and his intent was to kill government employees. The Murrah Federal Building was a symbol of the entire government and he attacked it, that is treason.
There are many anti-Americans in this country. There are many Americans who want things to go badly in Iraq so that Kerry will be elected. Many are wishing for the economy to tank. While we are in the most impressive growth period of the last 20 years, Kerry is going around talking down the economy. While these don't rise to the level of treason, they do appear to many to be very much anti-American. Pesimism has never gotten anyone elected. I would suggest to Kerry and his supporters that instead of running around talking about how awful everything is when the facts are completely the opposite, they should propose positive alternatives to what they believe are the problems with the country. People vote on the direction they believe the candidate will take the country.
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