| Author |
 Topic  |
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
 Posted - 01/30/2004 : 20:13:05
|
| Jim, do the poor that you plan to show me have houses, clothing and food? |
 |
|
|
JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 20:19:57
|
Is that your definition of poor Kile?
What about the poor who I will show you who cannot afford drugs crucial to their very life survival, or have to choose between eating or heating their home during the winter or buying medicine for their family?
God Blessed you Kile that you do not know poverty. Whether you know it or not, your fortune could easily turn to the same misfortune with a severe downturn in the economy, a loss of employment or a catastrophic illness. Consider yourself lucky, but, at the least, have some empathy, awareness and acknowledgement of the suffering of others.
It is not a matter of whether we are our brother's keeper, but that we are our brother's brother.
Now go back and close your eyes wide shut again. |
Edited by - JimF on 01/30/2004 20:23:56 |
|
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 20:54:26
|
Yes, Jim, that is my definition of poor. Most poor people in the world do not have food, clothing and shelter. It doesn't matter that they can't afford pharmeceuticals because they will die of exposure or starvation. Those drugs that they can't afford didn't exist 50 years ago and there are government programs, most of them outrageously expensive, to get those drugs to the people that need them. I would reccomend that if they have to choose between eating or heating they should choose the heating. Food is plentiful and cheap. There are foodstamps, the Salvation Army runs food pantries and hell, just go down to the grocery store on a weekend and fill up on the free samples.
I think we are seeing this from two totally different points of view. To me if the basics of food, clothing and shelter are provided, everything else is gravy. Just because there are some in this country who can't afford cable TV and a daily Latte from Starbucks doesn't mean that they are poor. People are not starving and for a society to be able to say that, it is truly remarkable.
That is my thesis for this thread, poverty is relative. I don't think that there isn't a "poor" person in this country whom most poor of other countries wouldn't gladly trade places with. |
|
|
|
olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 21:27:32
|
| Jim I recently listened to called on the RUSH show talking about how unfair it was for anyoen to attack him when he voluntarily turned him self in to treatment. That is the kind of tunel vision the exists on the extreme right (and the left). The great achievement of the right wing this century is to convince themselves that they are really moderates. Therefore anyone who does not share their world view must be from the extreme left and a closet commie. And what is amazing to me is they can look in the mirror and see how RIGHT they are! Kile have you ever eaten in a food kitchen, if not I recommend it, if you go down and help serve they will feed you. |
|
|
|
JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 21:46:35
|
Of course there may be differing levels of relevance in measuring poverty Kile. The child who has not had anything to eat in 5 days is no doubt in better shape relatively speaking than the one who hasn't had a meal in 10 days.
You are content to live in the world as it is Kile.
For OlderThenDirt, Janice and many others and I, we aren't.
We at least strive to do something about it.
Noblesse Oblige* and all that.
The only thing relative about poverty is one's level of awareness and acknowledgement that it exists.
Poverty anywhere is indeed poverty everywhere.
We really haven't advanced very far up the evolutionary chain as a human race so long as discrimination and slavery and slaughter and starvation are allowed to prevail in a global society.
*Noblesse Oblige: To those to whom much is given, much is expected. |
Edited by - JimF on 01/30/2004 22:12:43 |
|
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 22:26:56
|
Jim, Mark and everyone else, please do not take my statements to mean that I don't believe that there isn't much we can all do to help those less fortunate than ourselves. I have been in a soup kitchen, no I haven't eaten there, I was delivering food. And you are correct, it wasnt Tavern On The Green. But the people there recieved hot, nourishing food and many of them got a shower and a clean change of clothes too, but most of them were there because they chose to be in the situation they were in. They chose to spend what little money they had on alcohol or drugs. They would rather sit on a stoop and drink rot gut out of a paper bag than clean themselves up and show up for job interviews. The counselor there told me that the hardest part of her job was not finding employment for these men, it was getting them to show up for work. She told me that 1 out of 10 that she found jobs for was able keep the job for more than a month.
The reasons behind all of this are irrelevant. I have a better idea for this thread. Let's all try to find ways that we can help those less fortunate than ourselves.
I have tried for the past 2 years to volunteer for Habitat for Humanity but so far my idle time and their building schedules in my home town have not meshed. I hope I can pound a few nails this spring or summer.
I, of course, clean out my closet every fall and give the clothes that I no longer wear to the Salvation Army. The same soup kitchen I mentioned before.
I have also found that a by-product of my prolonged hotel stays are bags and bags of tiny soaps and shampoo bottles. The local homeless shelter back home loves these items. They give them to the men who come in to take showers.
What do you guys think, what other simple things can we all do to ease the burdens of others. |
|
|
|
fkj
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 22:45:07
|
American poverty mostly hits the very old and very young. Children are probably the worst off particularly if they have sorry parents.
About 11 years ago my wife and I were asked to keep a foster child, a young girl. We have 5 of our own and it was hard to fit her in, but we kept her for a little over a year. The pity was that when taken away from her mom the girl was starving. Everything of value went to moms drug habit. For the whole time we had her, the girl kept stashing food. When cleaning her room, clothes, personal belongings we would find where she had hidden food. The school complained because her locker caught roaches and ants because of the food stored there. With some help she survived and is in the Air Force today. I hope the other poor children in our country turn out as well, there are many of them.
Fred Johnson |
|
|
|
JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 22:47:53
|
Kile, excellent suggestion. I'm proud of you friend!
Here is a link to one of my favorite ways of helping to lessen hunger in America and it is such a cheap (relatively speaking) way of doing it. I am very involved in trying to set up a community wide project with several farms and farmers where I live. The program is called Plant A Row For The Hungry and here is an informative link:
http://www.gwaa.org/par/
Thanks again for seeing the light and for sharing your wonderful idea.
May God Bless you richly my friend!
The Buddha says there are many paths to enlightenment. Let us all strive to find at least one. |
Edited by - JimF on 01/30/2004 22:54:10 |
|
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 22:57:56
|
Don't be too proud, Jim. I haven't changed my view. But I think that I have made a point or two. I do enjoy a good discussion.
I do believe though that there is much we can all do to help those around us. I am sorry that we are all so spread out because I believe that with all of our varied skills and abilities we could all give alot to an organization like Habitat for Humanity. Maybe instead of a convention this year, we can all meet in a central location like Memphis or Birmingham and saw a few boards and pound a nail or two for a weekend so that a family can achieve the American dream of home ownership.
Just a thought. I'm not much of an organizer, but if we could get it together I'd gladly show up. |
Edited by - KileAnderson on 01/30/2004 22:59:51 |
|
|
|
CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 23:00:49
|
There are those that shun any kind of social shelter after dark, and keep to the streets. When I used to live in Ottawa in the city core, during the winter I became part of a volunteer help squad a couple of nights a week.
Our job was to buy a loaf of bread and make up 12 or 13 sandwiches of any kind (soon came to realize that peanut butter or cold meats were the favorites), wrap them in wax paper and all into a backpack. After walking a route shotgun for a week, I got my own couple of blocks; and you get to know the characters to some degree. The object was to help by handing out sandwiches and listening, and to have no opinion on their station in life. We would keep track of the regulars and report to the service agency after our delivery tours, of any visible illnesses or things of that kind, and of who needed additional winter clothing.
A very very profound experience, that leaves you sitting in your favorite chair for hours after; thinking and wondering about 'why' and 'how'.
I cheated after while, I couldn't help it. I started to take a bag of apples with me and took an extra pack of smokes with me to hand out.
I have nothing, relative to a lot of people; but I could give and share with these street folk. |
|
|
|
jlombardo
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2004 : 08:38:00
|
| You guys are okay......proud to be associated with all of you.....Jim, Thanks for the link....Kile, a phrase that is always in my mind is " But for the Grace of God, there go I"........ |
|
|
|
J G Cournoyer
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2004 : 21:02:00
|
| Kile, no unkindness intended here. Your belly is full of food & your heart is full of yourself. May you continue to be as blessed as you say you have been. |
|
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2004 : 21:21:07
|
| No, JG, I just know what I see. Maybe you guys don't get the point. There are people in this country who don't have an easy life, but they have what it takes to live, and if they can't provide it for themselves the government will provide it for them if they simply ask. My point is compared to the world outside out borders no one in this country is in danger of starving or dying of exposure. If they are it is because they have done nothing to help themselves. I am not against helping others help themselves, but they must first want to be helped. |
|
|
|
J G Cournoyer
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2004 : 21:38:45
|
Well, I think there are a few (read: many) people who die from exposure in this country each year. Are you as rich as Bill Gates? (I am surely not). Is this because we were not as smart, motivated or both?
Should we disband all charities because they serve only the lazy or un-smart? Apparently you were gifted with the ability to achieve a comfortable lifestyle. Sadly, we were not gifted with Bill Gate's ability to achieve a rich lifestyle. Is this because we are lazy or un-motivated?
If we can understand our inability to achieve Bill Gates status, why can you not see that some others can not achieve our level of success? |
|
|
|
dano009
46 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2004 : 11:18:25
|
| What gets me is when these type of subject matters emerge, some people define proverty and such with the living conditions of third world countries. None of us live in third world countries. We live in the USA. Of course most people have shelter, food and clothes. Roof migh leak like hell when it rains, food might be just crackers and clothes might be two-three years old. There is a great deal of proverty in this country. And a Republican administration by philosophy will ignore that class always, also I might mention, the working class. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Poverty, American Style
Forum Locked
