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okclarryd
USA
106 Posts |
 Posted - 11/18/2003 : 20:54:44
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Well, Jim. This is one of those "Yes" and "No" calls.
Ya know what they say about "CPCU"
"Can't Produce.........Can't Underwrite"
Please accept this missive in the vein in which it was written. |
LARRY D HARDIN |
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 21:08:25
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| A string of letters means you can study and have text book knowledge. They are never a meassure of your abilities to do the job, but they are a measure of your potential (and occassionaly your ego). We need a way to identify both the ability to learn and the ability to do the job properly. |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 21:36:35
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| No, my friend, I have to disagree because the CPCU is the real thing. I gaur-on-tee it is no cake walk. Anyone who can earn it has earned my respect. When you sit for a CPCU exam and stare at the question, your ego is of absolutely no value. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 22:19:09
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Now that the steam has blown out of the pipes on that union thing - man, like Ghost I didn't know what kickstarted that again; and thank Amber's keen eye for pointing it out.
I wish these organizational and designation / certification commentaries were in the "organization" thread, so we can find them again next year. But, I'll stay with the flow here.
All this talk about a CPCU, is there anyone in this community that has one, and if so, can tell us of its real world value for cat claims?
Philosophically, I believe that an association would be capable of developing a certification - I like to use the phrase "standardized levels of proficiency / competency" - that would be recognized by carriers and vendors as "the" standard for the cat claim industry. I think the concept for that goal is far from a "pretend" ideal.
If the association did the proper job in developing this "certification", which would include co-operation with carriers and vendors as to their needs and goals with regards to standardized levels of proficiency / competency; this certification fostered by the association would in time give the cat adjuster a waiver for any specific vendor / carrier certification requirements. This in time, would then make those other "dozens" redundant for the association certified adjuster. Might I suggest that that would then be a value added benefit of being a member of such an organization, and attaining the various levels of certification that may be offered. |
Edited by - Tom Toll on 11/19/2003 05:21:34 |
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Jim Lakes
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 22:53:23
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TO ALL:
I would like to add that there is one designation that does help a "Cat Adjuster." That designation is the RPA (Registered Professional Adjuster." It has helped me and several other adjusters that I know get work and are offered other jobs.
I am a little surprised that Jim Flynt, Clayton Carr did not bring this designation up in their commentary.
If you do not think that it might help you in getting work, just ask Bob Nikos whether or not this is true. Bob is an RPA and we called him because of the designation that he holds to work claims in IA this past summer and Bob did a very good job with very little supervision. I have found that this is true on several different occasions.
Without going into a lot of detail about it, I will simply list the web page and you can check it out yourself.
It is www.rpa-adjuster.com.
Very few of us do not work daily claims when there is no “Cat” work and all the training and designation that you can acquire is better than doing nothing.
Jim Lakes, RPA
VP RAC Catastrophe Services, Inc.
866.312.7400
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SeizeOWisdom
25 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2003 : 01:30:04
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Jim Lakes, as our mutual friend John Durham would say, you need to read the thread more C A R E F U L L Y (or maybe buy a new pair of specs).
Here is what I had to say about the RPA program under this thread:
(1) "If those here truly want to make an association happen, why not focus your efforts toward supporting a NACA or RPA"
(2) "Were all cat adjusters AIC's or CPCU's or RPA's then the carriers would notice. Quality would go up dramatically and the number wanting to share in our pie would of course go down, simply for the reasons that these designations have meaning, require much diligence and discipline, and are not handed out ever so freely as Halloween candy."
(3) "I think the RPA Program ('Registered Professional Adjuster') has the right concept wherein they require lengthy experience, written and oral testing, and other requisites which aren't taken lightly."
(4) "And I think the answer is twofold: first that what is being advocated is not intended to be as stringent as AIC, CPCU or RPA, thus it will have little or no meaning and not recognized by carriers as equal to the aforementioned existing designations. And secondly, if certification is indeed intended to be meaningful, then by it's very definition, it will limit membership to those with the discipline and desire to earn recognition and not have it handed to them as freely and instantly as a hamburger in a fast food joint.
And when your organization starts saying to some you didn't pass the muster, how long before those disenchanted adjusters stray from your folds, thus costing both dollars and support for your association?"
Jim, I hope all is well with the new move back to your old stomping grounds and now that you're settled in, please come back and visit more often and share more of your RPA knowledge!
It is laughable that anyone would even begin to suggest that an 'open book' 100 question multi-choice test somehow administered over an unsecured internet would ever be considered comparable to each of the 3 hour closed book 'secured' exams (4 exams for AIC and 8 for CPCU) in testing comprehensive knowledge of personal and commercial insurance, and the many other aspects of multi-line insurance adjusting.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but I am not aware that AIC, CPCU or RPA exams can be taken over the internet due to security concerns and the uncertainty of knowing "who" is really taking the tests. (For those who remember, it is my understanding that this is the reason that FWUA did away with their online FWUA certification testing)
That is why IIA, AIC and CPCU exams are now administered by and exams given/taken under supervision at Sylvan Learning Centers around the country for these reasons.
And to paraphrase my good friend Ghostbuster, you can throw away your ego, because it is only knowledge that counts when you are sitting there staring at a tough multi-faceted essay question on an AIC or CPCU or RPA or IIA or ARM or CIC exam. It's even more unnerving when you realize they don't 'curve' their grades so that everyone passes!
If it's cheap dimestore 'certifications' candy like the kind freely handed out at Halloween you want, then follow the path being advocated here by one or two folks (who I might add have never earned any of these widely recognized designations).
But if you want the real Godiva chocolate kind of designations having real value, then follow those who would suggest you not waste your time, money and efforts on anything less than the widely recognized designations AIC, CPCU or RPA. Those, they don't hand out like candy.
It all boils down to simply being honest enough to admit that any new association's 'certification' would be of little or no value to vendors, carriers and cat adjusters and just one more way for others to get into cat adjusters' wallets for self serving reasons. I wouldn't waste my time nor money on such a senseless certification and suspect neither would most of you.
About the only thing such certification test would accurately measure would be the stupidity of anyone foolish enough to waste their time and energy taking it.
In the end, this whole discussion about some new certification is nothing more than a last ditch Hail Mary to find an antidote for a dead horse which should have been put out to pasture a long time ago for a proper and decent burial. I have never seen a dead horse given a more brutal beating.
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Edited by - SeizeOWisdom on 11/19/2003 07:11:40 |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2003 : 07:13:16
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First, I strongly disagree with what was taken out of my previous post by censorship. It was a simple statement that "I disagree with several points ....", and quoted the paragraph that I disagreed with; so that my comments that followed could better relate to the point in question. Both Admin and another moderator were online for some time after I made the previous post, and it would be hard to convince me that neither read it and then considered it as satisfactory as submitted. There is either no consistency in the moderator process and / or there is specific targeting of posts by other moderators.
While there has been commentary on the concept of the association "certification" and some discussion on the style, nature and methodology to accomplish it; I do think the opposing member has made far too many assumptions to reach his "laughable" conclusion, including that of his sentence relative to 'curves' and grading. I, as just one voice in the discussion, happen to agree with the 'thrust' of the dissenting comment relative to the style, nature and methodology of the certification process; particularily the 'curve and grade' approach.
However, for the purposes necessary to fullfil the concept of certification as noted in my last post, relative to the work and knowledge quotient requirements of those in this community, I strongly feel there is no need for a certification / designation at the level of AIC, CPCU, or RPA. But, something is definetly needed well above any company / vendor certification and that "something" will end up creating standardized levels of proficiency and competency.
I spent quite a bit of time late last night enjoying a review of the RPA website. It is something in hindsight that I wish I would have had, or tried to attain, 20 or more years ago; when it was directly in line with my career stream. I don't think my statement would be far off the mark, if I suggested that less than 5% of this community could begin to qualify for the RPA designation. Simply, the route many took to work within this field was outside the traditional insurance or claims streams. I do see the tangible benefits of having or working towards an RPA designation. However, it is not the medium required at this time to initiate within this community standardized levels of proficiency or competency.
Although it may be inexpensive to attain, I am not advocating anything that would be considered as a "dimestore designation" that would be "freely handed out". |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2003 : 07:45:23
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Well, I'll dare to say again that I disagree with some of the edited comments this morning, made by the dissenting member.
However, what puzzles me is why the dissenting member continues to so energetically flog this horse of an idea, if he feels it is such a waste of time?
Further, aside from noting disagreement on points raised, aside from noting puzzlement as mentioned; what I don't understand is the comment made by the dissenting member that an association certification is, ".... just one more way for others to get into a cat adjusters' wallet for self serving reasons." I just don't know what would motivate a statement to be made like that. |
Edited by - CCarr on 11/19/2003 07:59:36 |
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2003 : 07:49:05
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I love how everyone is bashing something that does not exist yet. Has anyone taken the time to put together a association test? I don't think so. As I have said in a earlier post, it will take yrs before any association or association test has any teeth. But, you have to start somewhere. What is the passing rate for those who take the AIC or CPCU test? I think the association would tweak their test to be a little harder. Maybe it would then carry a little weight.
If you do not want to be part of an organization or take their test, then please don't join. It's that simple! I think some just assume than (The Organization) would just throw together a test that anyone could pass. We need to build something we all can be proud of. |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2003 : 09:43:45
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| I am writing to agree with Jim Lakes, another that posts under his name, and to point out that even Rodeo Cowboys have an association. |
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SeizeOWisdom
25 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2003 : 10:07:20
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We already have an association for cat adjusters too Chuck.
In case you missed it Chuck, it's called the National ASSOCIATION of CATASTROPHE Adjusters (NACA).
Here's the NACA weblink for those who missed it earlier:
http://www.nacatadj.org/html/home.htm |
Edited by - SeizeOWisdom on 11/19/2003 10:13:25 |
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2003 : 10:23:56
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| Look at the membership requirements of the NACA. You have to have two signed recommendation letters from General Members. Anyone on here a member of NACA? If so, I need the letters. Mr. Wisdom will you give me a letter? It appears the NACA is a closed society. What about the masses? |
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SeizeOWisdom
25 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2003 : 10:49:32
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Alan, I'm sorry you're right. My mistake. What an oversight on my part. Mea culpa.
If last week you were a paperboy, roofer, housewife, siding salesman, bankrupt contractor, bag boy, grocery cashier and this week you want to be and call yourself a cat adjuster, then you can't join NACA. It's as simple as that. You simply cannot join their association of catastrophe adjusters.
(I suppose it has something to do with at least having 'some' standards, if you can believe that. Aren't you as amazed with their audacity in limiting their membership to real cat adjusters as I am?)
Can you believe they actually have a process to try and limit their membership to real cat adjusters? Incredible isn't it? Almost beyond belief.
Now what was it you were saying about the need for a new association to represent the rest of the warm bodied folks who aren't in NACA?
Which group of individuals is it exactly that you would open your membership to that NACA closes out?
Ghostbuster please chime in with your thoughts on a new association for bankrupt contractors and greedy roofers and all the other menagerie of insurance talent running around calling themselves cat adjusters. |
Edited by - SeizeOWisdom on 11/19/2003 11:08:21 |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2003 : 11:12:32
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Mr. Wisdom, you have outdone yourself. That is one of the most sarcastic, demeaning and condescending posts you have made under any of your user names.
Your string of letters behind whatever name, does nothing for your people skills.
I hope others have the courage to make a similar rebuttal to your disgusting post. |
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SeizeOWisdom
25 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2003 : 11:16:34
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When you can't dissect the argument, YOU pull out your dagger to vivisect the messenger (who's message YOU don't want heard here and understandably so).
What's disgusting here is your failure of reasoning and lack of honesty in trying to build your case for what the rest of us long ago realized and you so pitiably can't seem to understand, your attempts at reviving a long dead mule.
Actually, you're making the much better argument against your own case than I ever could.
Where are the masses behind the idea for an association of catastrophe adjusters? I suggest if you open your eyes, you'll find 398 of them over at NACA.
Call my post what you will, in English class it's called the use of satire. |
Edited by - SeizeOWisdom on 11/19/2003 11:28:22 |
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Association, Will it do us any good?
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