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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
 Posted - 11/16/2003 : 07:38:36
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As one who is also currently seeking higher education that is relevant to our industry, I recognize full well that, as a storm trooper, the vendors as well as the carriers could care less about any kind of letters behind my name or educational entries on a resume. Did the vendors or carriers mention education to all the fresh meat that came out of the woodwork at Isabel? When your trainee stepped off the plane, did that person display a CPCU key for all the world to see? What about all the rest of yesterdays wrecker drivers and bag-boys and ex-siding salesmen, did they wave their AIC diplomas?
Of course not. They didn't because the vendors and carriers lack respect for educated and experienced professional adjusters and fail to encourage we independents to attain a superior level of competence. Yeah, I know, Pilot set up school in the Dallas area. Yeah, I know, there's a bulletin board post from Hill Country Claims for a hail and ethics course in Kerrville. But these do not result in true professionally recognized designations? No. The real question is, why?
Why? Why, in storm trooping, are CPCU's and AIC's not sought after? Or, the flip side, why are non-educated people so readily accepted by the vendors and carriers to be entrusted in a fiduciary capacity with the disbursement of corporate funds in a high stressed, contract interpreting, technical and psychological environment? Why?
Is it the Ol' Warm Body Game? Is it that educated adjusters know too much? Is it that carrier supervisors with 8 months and 2 days of experience are threatened by professionals they can't bully? Is it that some vendors won't be able to delay or avoid paying people who recognize their evil intent? Is it that space aliens have abducted all the CPCU's and AIC's and no one else is left?
Just over the hill is a very fine storm trooper with a CPCU. His knowledge of insurance is more than comprehensive and his technical and psychological abilities have been the inspiration to many. Is he sought out by the vendors and carriers to perform the job right the first time and represent the interests of the carrier and Insured in fulfilling the contract of insurance? Nope! He's just another name on the list with no more status than the latest ex-contractor-gone-bankrupt.
A CPCU is supposed be a coveted designation recognized by our industry as a person who as achieved something hard to get. It is supposed to be a professional ranking equivalent in our industry to a PHD or even a MD. That CPCU key is supposed to unlock the door to a higher plane of existence in the insurance world and get you into the executive bathroom and sit your butt on the green leather chairs in the board rooms. But it don't. Why is it that an independents CPCU and $.48 will buy a Snicker Bar at Walmart?
Why ask why, you say? Because the lack of respect for an educated you and me by the vendors and carriers has reduced our status to the level of just so many disposable peons. How can we reverse this situation?
I contend that, just like the Charles Atlas ads in the back of the comic books we have over in the corner there say, we must organize and get strong and, figuratively or if necessary literally, kick the sand back in the bullies face and the bimbo who derisively laughed at us in the first place.
That, my friend, is how I see it. |
Edited by - Ghostbuster on 11/16/2003 07:41:53 |
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jlombardo
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2003 : 08:25:44
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| Sometimes GB, you cn be most depressing......truthful, but depressing none the less...... |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2003 : 08:55:46
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| My point has nothing to do with the value of the various tests, AIC, CPCU, whatever, only that there is little interest in any organization or testing. Collecting questions from working cat adjusters would seem to work to make the test relevant and setting up an internet testing system would seem to reduce the bs involved in taking the test. What we want to test is real world knowledge and skills relevant to cat adjusting. |
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Johnd
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2003 : 12:44:48
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Damn, Ghost, that was one of the most honest and descriptive missive I have read in many moons. You have hit the nail right on the head. Now, how do you organize 500 fiercely independent cusses who have already been getting whipped with the proverbial "barbed wire switch" of bad rates to understand that they MUST do something and soon????
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John Durham
sui cuique fingunt fortunam |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2003 : 13:26:19
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Ghost do you think the lack of the desire/ability to manage one's financials plays a major role on this subject. While going into a storm with an unknown vendor is such a risk it is viewed by some to be a better option than waiting for the perfect wave because by then the new pickup with the $4500 optional engine may have been reprocessed.
As I get old it seems that most all of life's major issues rest with one or both of two F words, Family and Finances.
Are there CAT adjusters without a plan to produce income if no calls come? |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2003 : 22:45:22
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Gale, storm trooping is a business like any other. Yes, many of us have no back up plans while others that do have more than once seen those backup plans fall apart. Life is a crap shoot.
Johnd, I can do no more than cajole and stir up the mob mentality from here at the palatial CADO Ministry of Propaganda. A herd can be lead to the trough, but they have to want to be fed first. This is a basic principal of leadership, particularly in a democracy populated by crusty ol' dinosaurs with strong independent streaks. (Yeah, that's right, I'm talking about all you guys out there.) I seem to recall an old trail driving adage about if one can get out in front of the stampede and call out, 'Follow me!', you can be the leader. The trick is to get the stampede going in your direction and not get run over by it.
It really is up to Chuck Deaton, to make what little organizing done so far, kick start the next step. That is, providing he still as interest in the project. I, for one, see a growing ground swell of interest. Has the stampede started yet? I think a couple more thunder peels and lightning flashes about the next vendor or carrier atrocity might just startle the herd into action. |
Edited by - Ghostbuster on 11/16/2003 22:47:29 |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2003 : 23:55:15
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It seems clear, that as impressed as I am with anyone with a CPCU, that a CPCU has nothing to do with Cat Adjusting and it is equally clear that my college degrees don't impress anybody but my mother. Concurrently CPCU and AIC, while I am impressed, don't really cut the mustard with any vendor looking for a hail jockey. The ability to look at a roof and make some kind of decision is not rocket science. Any average intellegence with desire can be tought the necessaries. What makes money, for the adjuster, is being able to inspect and write up several a day, day after day, week after week, month after month.
To set the record straight I am opposed to any attempt to unionize and won't be any part of any such thing, but I do think that there are benefits to be had from an association. This forum provides a much needed meeting place, sure we have our nuts, but we also have something that we have never had before. We need something else, we need a professional association. |
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okclarryd
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 08:22:56
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This series of postings has taken the "fork in the road" as have many others. This one started off whining about some companies that were a little slow in paying the help. Now, we're trying to elect the Board of Governors for the new Union. ???
I don't need a union. Nor do I want one. I have never taken the AIC tests because I've never seen the benfit. I DID take the ASE tests and it directly affects my pay when I work on your car. That is a benefit that is not hard to find. I'm a real good adjuster and a better auto technician. I get paid for what I do in both professions. I had an issue with one of the IA companies that I worked for and it took about a week to resolve the problem. I didn't need a union then, either.
If AIC and CPCU don't mean anything to your employer, what good will a union do for you? These designations are not handed out like an Internet Diploma. They require months of study and classes and then the tests that'll make ya sweat. And this means what? In the Cat world.........nuttin. As a staff supervisor, it probably carries a lot of weight. But not in the Cat world.
The only thing that a union would do is REALLY screw up the society that we have. I have never needed it and I don't need it now. |
LARRY D HARDIN |
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goose
57 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 09:28:30
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| Amen, Larry. A voice for the silent majority has been heard. I totally agree with your opinion, as does every other adjuster I know. Why mess with a good thing? |
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SeizeOWisdom
25 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 09:30:34
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You may be surprised to learn that I agree with Larry and Chuck, and agree, that the CPCU designation means very little if anything in the world of catastrophe adjusting. It is a shame that is the case, but a cat adjuster holding the CPCU designation is paid the exact same amount of money (for the same value claim of course) from the fee schedules as the newest warm body who last week was a bankrupt contractor and this week, suddenly transformed into the newest 'cat adjuster' among our ranks.
The key points I was trying to make in my posts about the CPCU and AIC designations are these:
AIC and CPCU are of course, recognized by 'some' in this industry as being exemplary of much hard work, reading, classroom work (generally), and rigorous testing, and to me at least, the CPCU is the penultimate designation among all the many designations available to insurance personnel, including adjusters.
Successful completion of CPCU and AIC courses can be translated and transferred to most college and universities, for college and graduate school college credits and credit hours towards other college degrees. I am unaware that any other designation or certification can be transferred as such or is so recognized and invite anyone to correct me if I am wrong.
In an ideal world, we all would seek and obtain these advanced designations both to advance our knowledge and increase our visibility as recognized professionals. Realistically, and for many reasons, I acknowledge that will never happen.
A crucial point I failed to get across, is that if indeed there was ONE DESIGNATION (and please read that as meaning "certification") that everyone in the insurance world could agree on as satisfactory evidence of education, training and knowledge (through the successful completion of these rigorous exams), THEN, we could (in theory at least) argue with doing away from the mindless number of certifications which cat and other adjusters are asked and expected to obtain. Certifications which I might add cost cat and other adjusters a not inconsiderable amount of time, travel and money. After all, if there was one recognized designation such as CPCU or AIC or RPA out there, couldn't we then do away with each of you having to be certified by State Farm, Allstate, USAA, Farmer's, FWUA, TWIA, NFIP, Tower Hill, and God only knows how many others? My suggestion was an attempt, however unrealistic on my part, towards focusing efforts toward that end, to wit, finding or agreeing on some certification which could end the redundancy of the mindless duplication created by the archaic system of having all these rather costly and time consuming certifications out there. If one wants to discuss the stone age thinking and vestiges of dinosaurs in our industry, I can think of no better place to start.
And finally, I believe that we should be honest with one another, that a new association is not going to develop a new certification which will in fact be recognized as that penultimate designation recognized by vendors and carriers, so let's not pretend otherwise.
There is great value which can be realized from associations or confederacies of similarly sited employees simply from a networking and sharing of ideas standpoint. But at least, let's be honest that any new certification created by a new association is nothing more than just one more meaningless designation among the many other 'certifications' out there. There are dozens of them and they cost a lot of money to obtain, but for my money, I'll spend my time, efforts and money on obtaining the only one which I think still counts in the corridors of power in the insurance industry: CPCU.
Thanks for listening.
Jim Flynt |
Edited by - SeizeOWisdom on 11/17/2003 09:43:51 |
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Steve_One
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 10:20:40
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Could a "union" grant us work all the time? No! Can it give us protection against large insurance company's abuse? No! Can a union regardless of continued rambleings about AIC CPCU, MOUSE, find us work, negotiate our fees, guarntee us a min. amount of files, and see that we get paid in a timely fashion? NO it can't!
Why? Simple, insurers and vendors will always exploit the little guy as long as they hold the check book! Having a union amoung yourselves is great for a dinner party, but you can't represent to anyone that the insurance company's will recognize it, in fact they'll take the position of ignoring anyone who's a member in an effort to "break" it up, and they'll prevail, why? Because we have to make a living and when it comes down to it, we'll go to work for them, on their terms, and screw the union and whatever restrictions they might have, unless the union is willing to pay the bills on the first of the month!
Just my opinion |
Edited by - Tom Toll on 11/17/2003 15:38:13 |
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Johnd
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 10:42:40
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After c a r e f u l l y reading all the posts above, I have not been able to extract a single reason for a new organization, be what ever form it assimilates. I have seen many reasons for NOT having or forming a new organization (association/union/etc). Jim's idea of some kind of certification/designation seems to be valid, but who would oversee this? The only folks with the ability to demand and formulate this would be the various states insurance commissioners. Now do we really want the government involved? If we are all really sure that an association/union/etc will NOT work, and we do not want the government involved, then may I respectfully suggest that we change the conversation to Sex and Football. Thank you for your consideration.
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John Durham
sui cuique fingunt fortunam |
Edited by - Johnd on 11/17/2003 10:43:48 |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 11:12:30
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The psychological dynamics of a mob mentality are fascinating! Here we have a situation where not a single soul is advocating a union, yet the mob continues to heap damnation on the concept of a union. This presents the oppurtunity for a megla-maniac to rise up from the back of the pack and scream for the burning of witches or the driving a wooden stake thru the heart of a vampire. So who wants to the next little Hitler or Mussolini or Saddam and get the lynch mob all fired up? It's all so laughably predictiable...
One more time, a professional trade association AIN'T a union! A union would be what staff employees working for a salary would want. We are, (more or less), independent professional businessmen engaged in the insurance adjusting industry and are self employed! There's a whole lot of difference twixt the two.
If you must stampede, please stampede for the right reasons. Free beer would be a right reason to stampede, or coffee & doughnuts, or even scantily clad dancing girls. But, chasing shadows in the twilight? Y'all can do better than that. We thank you in advance for your kind cooperation. |
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Amber
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 11:46:46
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Ahh... But, yes, Ghost, there is ONE single soul advocating unionization. See Excallibro's full post on page 6 of this topic. quote:
It's time to unionize before it's too late. Unionization simply means that we care about our profession enough to organize.
Think about it. quote:
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 12:50:12
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Oh, yeah...sorry, forgot about him over in the corner reading the intelluctual articles in the girlie magazines.
See what happens when you fail to clean your spectacles? |
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Association, Will it do us any good?
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